chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Head Gilding gets everything inside the head, presumably.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Somewhere
Alright, I'm relatively new to the quest, having been informed of this through discord. However, I think anyone expecting the kid to be an elector count/emperor had best be prepared to be disappointed; Legally, *all* wizards are vassals of their order. An Emperor being beholden to any of them will not go over well with the Electors. And if they're *not* beholden to any of the college... well, Imperial law states that any magic user not of the colleges are to be killed or exiled. Either way, very much a potential shitstorm on the horizon. Or a disinheritment to dodge said shitstorm and keep everything flowing smoothly. Bright side, wouldn't worry about immortality; it'll be a moot point given that.
To expand on the Vassal thing, this is a case of Altdorfer law taking precedence due to the colleges (Amber aside) being in the city. There may be highborns in the ranks of the colleges, but they're serve the college first and foremost, so any marriages there would be politically moot due to being Magisters both in a political and legal sense. Essentially a class unto themselves.
All things considered though, and given the boy's personality so far, I'd say the Grey and Bright orders are the two on the list that would best suit him. However, one which I would say would *also* be a good fit despite not being on the list (for shame) is the Celestial college; from what I gather and have been told, he does have the personality to actually succeed and do so well.
Finally, something I do want to point out; The Emperor already has significant influences over the colleges, and for a very simple (and good reason); He's the biggest financial benefactor of the colleges. Angling for a particular school for influence is... pretty much pointless when you've got that in spades through the imperial purse
To expand on the Vassal thing, this is a case of Altdorfer law taking precedence due to the colleges (Amber aside) being in the city. There may be highborns in the ranks of the colleges, but they're serve the college first and foremost, so any marriages there would be politically moot due to being Magisters both in a political and legal sense. Essentially a class unto themselves.
All things considered though, and given the boy's personality so far, I'd say the Grey and Bright orders are the two on the list that would best suit him. However, one which I would say would *also* be a good fit despite not being on the list (for shame) is the Celestial college; from what I gather and have been told, he does have the personality to actually succeed and do so well.
Finally, something I do want to point out; The Emperor already has significant influences over the colleges, and for a very simple (and good reason); He's the biggest financial benefactor of the colleges. Angling for a particular school for influence is... pretty much pointless when you've got that in spades through the imperial purse
- Location
- Finland
Unless the suggestion is that Mandred go over everything their advisors do constantly, then i'm not seeing your point.
He is not going to have time to double check his advisors, if you feel that trustworthiness of his councilors is an issue, best put him into grey's.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This does not agree with what the QM has told us. We have been pretty explicitly told that him becoming an Elector Count has no meaningful legal obstacles and him becoming Emperor would likewise be legal, it's just vanishingly unlikely given the people involved in the election. So he's probably not gonna be Emperor, but there aren't legal barriers.
- Location
- Finland
Pretty much everything here is just wrong.
Well, except that other electors might not be happy, but we already knew about it, there's a solid change we'll end up with empress Roswita instead.
Which is fine, Battle Wizards love her.
- Location
- Utrecht
"The first obedience of every Magister must be to the ideals and laws of Sigmar's Holy Empire of which these Articles form a part; then to he who is rightfully elected Emperor of Sigmar's Holy Empire; then to the Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic; then to the laws and ideals of their Order; then to the Patriarch of their Order; then to the authorities that each Magister may be required to serve in the course of his duties; then to other superiors within their Orders.
not an issue.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Chamon is the yellow wind, strictly speaking.
Did you know that they're also the premier herbalists in the Empire? You'd think it'd be the Whites (who specialize in healing) or the Jades (aren't they the best at herbs?) but it makes more sense when you discard the notion that they're married to metal specifically.
It's about all the useful stuff in the world that humans can use and study.
This isn't a reply to anything, it's just neat. You can have Alchemist guys from other cultures who don't have any metal symptoms at all, because that's just not how they engage with the magic.
Knowing what you're doing will always be useful.
Did you know that they're also the premier herbalists in the Empire? You'd think it'd be the Whites (who specialize in healing) or the Jades (aren't they the best at herbs?) but it makes more sense when you discard the notion that they're married to metal specifically.
It's about all the useful stuff in the world that humans can use and study.
This isn't a reply to anything, it's just neat. You can have Alchemist guys from other cultures who don't have any metal symptoms at all, because that's just not how they engage with the magic.
You discard double checking them so easily. Did Van Hal stain a table on a hunch?
Knowing what you're doing will always be useful.
- Location
- Finland
Van Hal was not the emperor, or the ruler of Altdorf, nor could he just get the grey order check over his councilors.
Yes, it is always nice being able to double check your councilors work, but if Van Hal had to personally go through it, instead of have other people do it for him, that does not speak of mans skill, but his lack of resources.
We have experts for a reason, and eventually you have to trust those experts, or get new ones.
Ok, I was partial to Bright before, but you and the others who have posted about it have sold me on preferring Chamon.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
It's a false dichotomy. Having the power to check keeps you safer even if you never use it. People can't feel secure in treachery if they're a hot second away from discovery.
Mandred being knowledgeable would be an inarguable benefit. It's purely a benefit. It would make him a better noble and a better person.
- Location
- Finland
I would not link having high learning into being a better person.
Possibly not even being a better noble.
More effective, sure, but so would any other stat.
Being able to personaly go through your advisors work is good.
So is the ability to recruit people you trust and don't need to (because, frankly, you can't, way too much going on, Van Hal was both cursed and blessed in that Stirland was a shit show that could be run mostly by him and his council).
- Location
- wild blue yonder
You should have said so in the first place, I'm all in on Brights baby. \s
Joking aside, I'm favoring Chamon, both on benefits, aptitude and the amount of connections both we have in the college and amount of backing it will provide Mandred.
Battlefield deeds are good (Aqshy), but Mandred can have those as a Gold too, and nothing talks like money does. If you think the average Gold wizard is already flush, you have to understand that Mandred as the billboard of both the Golds and wizardry, he is going to be blinged out for the rest of his life.
You know how our money stat from the Laurelorn deal would have just been 'Yes', if we'd taken it in cash? Mandred's might well just be 'Yes' permanently. Frankly, we'll probably have to keep an eye on the Golds just so they don't crash the market.
Add that to all the other bonuses in regards to Chamon, and it's got my vote. Probably want to make it contingent on us having some significant oversight over his education in terms of who he goes to as Apprentice (Gehenna, for instance, would be lovely), but that's where I'm leaning. Also want to make sure he doesn't gild himself in some unsettling way.
I find the Ind Aqshy stuff intriguing, but we really don't know fuck all about it, and won't ever - we're not Bright Wizards. I think it'd be interesting to vote towards as something to influence the Bright College to look into, but not with Mandred's future as the collateral.
Funnily enough, Jade is actually my second vote. I think it needs to be kept in scope that Wizard Count, specifically of the Reikland, is his future - Wizard Emperor is far away from certain, and there are actually plenty of problems in Reikland that a Jade would be great for solving.
Grey remains last for me. The political argument hasn't changed.
You know, it's a shame we'd never ever tell Qretch about the internal politics of the Colleges, I bet he'd get all nostalgic.
Less canabalism here of course but still.
Less canabalism here of course but still.
I'm going to go Bright. I am tired of people saying Chamon is the best wind ever with the best arcane marks is the best best best. Yeah, great, the tabletop rpgs did a bad job of balancing winds, woo-hoo. Chamon will already be getting Gelt soon enough, I want to read about a kickass Bright Mage making a scene at around the same time. I want the diplo-wizard who wins hearts through mundane and magical means. I want a strong arm and a burning soul. In short, I want Karl Franz 2: Aqshy boogaloo.
#SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS
#SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS
- Location
- Germany
General question about the politics here.
The wife of the Emperor is the Empress, but that's not the same title as the actual ruling Empress, like the Ottilian or Marienburg Empresses from the time of Three Emperors, right?
So, in the possible scenario that Roswitha becomes elected Empress, via marriage to another Elector Count, that Count would also have the title Emperor, but not be the ruling/elected Emperor, similar to Heidi's position as Empress right now.
I wonder if the Empire has separate titles for that cases, or keeps the same (at the risk of confusion).
The wife of the Emperor is the Empress, but that's not the same title as the actual ruling Empress, like the Ottilian or Marienburg Empresses from the time of Three Emperors, right?
So, in the possible scenario that Roswitha becomes elected Empress, via marriage to another Elector Count, that Count would also have the title Emperor, but not be the ruling/elected Emperor, similar to Heidi's position as Empress right now.
I wonder if the Empire has separate titles for that cases, or keeps the same (at the risk of confusion).
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So, clearly the desire to summon the Elector count is so strong that Karl Fran will transcend even space-time. But where does that leave us, obviously.
Supreme Patriarch Karl Franz: Summon the Collages Patriarchs!
doesn't sound as fancy, we need a snappier one
Supreme Patriarch Karl Franz: Summon the Collages Patriarchs!
- Location
- Utrecht
Convene the Wizard Council
- Location
- California, USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"They didn't talk about how they could help him," huh.
It might just be an irreparable difference. Personally I don't believe any of these decisions will be disasters, or that how he is at ten will establish how happy he is after melding his mindset around his magic. To the very slight degree it might, well...
Mandred is a feudal ruler of the biggest and most important province in the Empire. He got the job by virtue of his birth. I care far less about how this decision helps him personally than I do the millions of people it will affect, all of them far less privileged than he is.
It might just be an irreparable difference. Personally I don't believe any of these decisions will be disasters, or that how he is at ten will establish how happy he is after melding his mindset around his magic. To the very slight degree it might, well...
Mandred is a feudal ruler of the biggest and most important province in the Empire. He got the job by virtue of his birth. I care far less about how this decision helps him personally than I do the millions of people it will affect, all of them far less privileged than he is.
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- Location
- Oklahoma
How long did it take to synthesize the elven magical paradigm with the several different paradigms of the Empire in the process of forming the Colleges? If it really required decades, the Empire would have likely been overrun because Teclis' gambit would have failed.
Three to five years is how long we've been working on the Waystone Project.
We just built a Waystone.
Three to five years is absolutely not nothing.
Brights play to Mandred's strengths, but may exacerbate his issues with the indic perspective on stuff as a potential mitigating factor. This is a path that is likely to make him popular among the army.
Golds will likely be able to shore up some of the weak points, but the nature of the wind may weaken some of his strengths. Solid aptitude for the fighty versions of the wind, potentially good relations with the nobility.
Jades have hard-to-predict internal politics (even if it is likely that the other colleges also suffer similar situations discretely) and probably would result in popular support, but otherwise seem the weaker choice.
As for the Greys, greatest amount of direct player control, which is a temptation, but the order's reputation is not great and Manfred doesn't seem the kind that becomes a stealth wizard, unless we are talking about Malfean stealth.
Unsurprisingly, all of these have valid arguments to be had and none are a perfect solution. Let's hope that whatever we pick doesn't end with Manfred becoming Robert Baratheon, because that's the character that comes to my mind looking at his stats.
Golds will likely be able to shore up some of the weak points, but the nature of the wind may weaken some of his strengths. Solid aptitude for the fighty versions of the wind, potentially good relations with the nobility.
Jades have hard-to-predict internal politics (even if it is likely that the other colleges also suffer similar situations discretely) and probably would result in popular support, but otherwise seem the weaker choice.
As for the Greys, greatest amount of direct player control, which is a temptation, but the order's reputation is not great and Manfred doesn't seem the kind that becomes a stealth wizard, unless we are talking about Malfean stealth.
Unsurprisingly, all of these have valid arguments to be had and none are a perfect solution. Let's hope that whatever we pick doesn't end with Manfred becoming Robert Baratheon, because that's the character that comes to my mind looking at his stats.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My own preference for Chamon is more due to him actually having an affinity for it than this. It being mechanically good is certainly nice, but it's him having an actual affinity for the magic, something we haven't heard about any of the other Winds except maybe Ulgu, that's the real selling point. I think that Wind resonates best with him and he'll be happiest using it.
Without that distinction I'd be more interested in Indic Aqshy or even the Jade College than I am right now, but they don't speak to his soul.
I think that regarding these things as in conflict is the wrong way to look at it. All the proposed Colleges can help him be a good ruler in different ways, and forcing people to be unhappy is seldom a way to get good performance out of them. We want Mandred to do a good job, of course, but him being happy and healthy is a way to achieve that, not a goal in opposition to it.
Nah, Robert had much worse Stewardship than Mandred has, which was arguably the whole problem in a nutshell. Mandred isn't excited by admin tasks (because he's 10), but he's solid at them and likely to get better. He's likely to be a perfectly fine administrator whichever College he winds up in (though Gold will likely make him an exceptional one).
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