Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I'm going to go Bright. I am tired of people saying Chamon is the best wind ever with the best arcane marks is the best best best. Yeah, great, the tabletop rpgs did a bad job of balancing winds, woo-hoo. Chamon will already be getting Gelt soon enough, I want to read about a kickass Bright Mage making a scene at around the same time. I want the diplo-wizard who wins hearts through mundane and magical means. I want a strong arm and a burning soul. In short, I want Karl Franz 2: Aqshy boogaloo.
#SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS

Also, the only particularly bad Bright Marks are 'you lose your temper more easily', but that can be presumably mitigated by 1) learning to control your Marks (as with any other), and... 2) having a high enough Diplomacy. Which he has. Seriously, 13 base Diplomacy as a ten year old is really good, and he'll only get better. And given the Bright College is all about controlling yourself, I think there's a really good chance they'll have classes on how to do exactly that, even preemptively.

And he could 3) not even get these Marks in the first place. Like, Mathilde is a Lady Magister and she only has four Marks. Four. After about thirty years of continually using Ulgu.
 
As for the Greys, greatest amount of direct player control, which is a temptation, but the order's reputation is not great and Manfred doesn't seem the kind that becomes a stealth wizard, unless we are talking about Malfean stealth.

I'd argue that the Greys have a fantastic reputation, in that its exactly the reputation they want to have.

Its just, y'know, not terribly well suited for this exact situation.
 
He gives you the look of a child who suspects he's being made fun of, but the sword draws his attention back. "Can I hold it?"

You frown at the blade in exaggerated thought. "Better not. If you swing it wrong you might knock down a building."

This statement is anime as fuck.

Professor Dieter Vogt is the Head of Agronomy at the Royal Academy of Talabecland, which gives him the opportunity to leave an impression on much of Talabecland's future nobility.

Dieter Vogt seems like a really limp-wristed showing from the Jades. I wonder if Paranoth & The Druidics even want Mandred in their College, politically. It might wind up inflaming things, ironically enough. Introducing Mandred could create a fourth internal faction (Secularists/Druidics/Vehemently Unaffiliated/Imperial Syncophants).


Haruspex Stern Glanzend's most oft-used title is rather erroneous. Where haruspicy is the art of using the entrails of the slain to predict the future, Stern divines the future to cause the entrails of the enemies of the Empire to be spilled. He is always sought after by the Empire's Generals, not least of which because if the omens are unclear, he goes out onto the battlefield and summons comets and lightning to simplify matters.

On the other hand, Haruspex Glanzend seems cool as all hell. It's a shame that the Denzel Debacle weighs on them so much that he took the Celestials out of the running (going by vote options).

"The nobles generally know us as the blade in the dark," you say, "but the rest of the world knows us as the Grey Guardians, they that know what must be known, and tell what must be told. The symbol of our Order is the Sword of Judgement, and I believe Mandred can be taught to wield it with skill and artfulness. A ruler that can be both the knife in the dark and the sword at dawn could be just what the Empire will need in the years to come."

Speaking of limp-wristed, this LM Weber really does feel like the Greys wanted to show willing, so they had their personal connection show up to half argue their virtues, and half play kingmaker. I bet she has Diplomacy as a dump stat :V.

In more seriousness, I don't think I would be convinced by Mathilde's argument here and we are Mathilde, lmao.



God the thread has moved fast today. Slightly below-average amount of knife-fighting, but maybe that's because some of it was diffused in the couple of days before the update.


The former. The Emperor recognizes that it would be foolishness to believe he could make a more informed decision on the matter than a hand-picked panel of subject-matter experts.
Ah, putting the Fantasy in Warhammer Fantasy.


Having read the thread, I love me some distant metaphysics and world building as much as anyone, but I do think the Golds would be better for Mandred overall.
 
It occurs to me that Johan's efforts with trial and error plus artillery at the beginning of the quest might have gone better if he were a crown prince, or someone who is actually a commanding officer of the artillery group.

Trial chamon vote idea:

[] The wind of logic and metal, for promising that his training will also focus on diplomacy.
 
It's interesting to me that so much of the unsuitability and problems in the Colleges are that they are doing the human thing of factions focusing only a single aspect of a Wind, similar to what humans do for Gods. So, that for instance, if Mandred wasn't an Emperor's son to be it'd very difficult to recommend him joining the Gold Order given all the crap Johann went through (and he was the apprentice to a Magister Lord, good grief)

It makes sense that this is so given that the Colleges are still in a struggle to justify their existence, but I can't imagine, for instance, that the Elven theory for Aqshy isn't Elemental and Mystical (and will help with "Ind" style Mystical inspiration). Though there seems to be great benefit in hyper-specializing, that can be deceptive, because with a rigid and narrow paradigm, selection bias will determine who succeeds. It seems to actually be superior to personalize your relationship to your Wind; whether that's like how Mathilde embraces all the faces of Ranald, or like how Johann focuses on Elemental Chammon.

After all, Arcane Marks are really part of your soul converting to your Wind and are unique to you, just like Masteries are almost unique to your personal understanding. Regardless of the College and Wind, I'd like to make it a condition that the totality of the Wind is seriously presented and offered.
 
General question about the politics here.

The wife of the Emperor is the Empress, but that's not the same title as the actual ruling Empress, like the Ottilian or Marienburg Empresses from the time of Three Emperors, right?

So, in the possible scenario that Roswitha becomes elected Empress, via marriage to another Elector Count, that Count would also have the title Emperor, but not be the ruling/elected Emperor, similar to Heidi's position as Empress right now.

I wonder if the Empire has separate titles for that cases, or keeps the same (at the risk of confusion).
The seperate title you're looking for is 'Emperor/Empress Consort'. It's a thing in real life, and I'm pretty sure it's a thing in the Empire because that's actually the title Lutipold used when he introduced us to Heidi:
"I should have guessed," he says with a smile, "I've heard good things from the Dwarves. This is my dear wife, the Empress Consort Heidi Haupt-Anderssen."
 
God the thread has moved fast today. Slightly below-average amount of knife-fighting, but maybe that's because some of it was diffused in the couple of days before the update.
Nah, it's because the vote hasn't actually started yet; there's no desperation behind anyone's words.

So don't worry, even if aqshy loses the thread will still light itself on fire just fine. :V
 
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My concern with the Golds would be if their tendency to inflexibility and rigidity of thought as they master their Wind turns out not mesh well with our plans to make Mandred a devout and *secret* Ranaldite.

I don't know if a suitable write-in trade would be something like a request to focus especially on watching for signs of said rigidity and teaching against it.
 
[] Brights, for investigation into incorporating the Indic paradigm of Aqshy

They can't reasonably promise more than that.
Would it be possible to add an extra request of "advocacy and support for future Waystone reclamations" to this? Would be really nice if we can get some assurances on that if more than one request can be fitted in - Brights are very suited for such endeavors and reclamations would be in line with their agenda anyways.

@Boney Just to check - can we fit multiple requests into this vote? Would you take them as a list of agenda points that Mathilde can push for, or is it just the top leading vote?

Also not sure if it was asked, why does Mandred take on the Haupt-Anderssen surname instead of Luitpold's dynasty (Holswig-schliestein)?
 
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General question about the politics here.

The wife of the Emperor is the Empress, but that's not the same title as the actual ruling Empress, like the Ottilian or Marienburg Empresses from the time of Three Emperors, right?

So, in the possible scenario that Roswitha becomes elected Empress, via marriage to another Elector Count, that Count would also have the title Emperor, but not be the ruling/elected Emperor, similar to Heidi's position as Empress right now.

I wonder if the Empire has separate titles for that cases, or keeps the same (at the risk of confusion).
The seperate title you're looking for is 'Emperor/Empress Consort'. It's a thing in real life, and I'm pretty sure it's a thing in the Empire because that's actually the title Lutipold used when he introduced us to Heidi:
Mathymancer is correct, and Boney has said as much:
The wife of an Emperor is commonly called an Empress, and the husband of an Empress is commonly called an Emperor, but this can be ambiguous in that it could imply that they have the power to rule in their own right. The titles of 'Emperor Consort' and 'Empress Consort' is an unambiguous way to refer to the legal spouse of the current ruler, it's not a title for people that an Emperor or Empress consorts with outside of marriage.
 
Looking at what's been posted so far, I'd be fine with either Bright or Grey, don't like Jade, and prefer Gold.

My concern with the Golds would be if their tendency to inflexibility and rigidity of thought as they master their Wind turns out not mesh well with our plans to make Mandred a devout and *secret* Ranaldite.

I don't know if a suitable write-in trade would be something like a request to focus especially on watching for signs of said rigidity and teaching against it.

In terms of leveraging favors, Mathilde's spot at the table recognizes her diplomatic achievements the most, so how about a 'diplomatically' flavored favor?

Something along the lines of:

[ ] Gold, for time spent among the Allies of Man.

After all, one of the best ways to avoid inflexibility and rigidity of thought is to be exposed to a lot of different viewpoints and perspectives. This also plays into Mandred leaning into being decently well-disposed for diplomacy, and would be an excuse for Mathilde to more openly be involved down the line if he visits, say, Laurelorn or Eight Peaks.
 
I think Mandreds affinity is being oversold. I would like to remind people that Mathilde had an affinity for predicting storms.

I don't think it means all that much at this stage to be honest.
 
My concern with the Golds would be if their tendency to inflexibility and rigidity of thought as they master their Wind turns out not mesh well with our plans to make Mandred a devout and *secret* Ranaldite.

I don't know if a suitable write-in trade would be something like a request to focus especially on watching for signs of said rigidity and teaching against it.


Dramatis Personae said:
Johann, Magister of the Gold Order
Updated Turn 42

Diplomacy: 23 - Johann is naturally likeable and gets along with most beings.
Martial: 24 - This may have gotten out of hand.
Stewardship: 15 - Some might call gilding your body 'ludicrously expensive'. Johann considers it an investment.
Intrigue: 20 - When most of your body is gold, you learn not to draw attention.
Piety: 15 - An ill-advised spell gave him a glimpse of the Ancestor Gods in their prime, converting him on the spot.
Learning: 19 - Johann has learned to work around his mental blocks and inflexible magic.
Magic: 7 - Johann has a natural gift for elemental Chamon.


Not to keep harping on Johann, but with Gehenna in the room, it feels like a good comparison. We don't know Max's, Intrigue, and it's hard to imagine it in the double-digits, but whatever they taught Johann seemed to work quite well.
 
@Boney Regarding what Gehenna said about Mandred and the fact that we've been able to discern lies by sight before (IE, 'I can literally see you lying by the shifting amount of Ulgu), do we have a read on whether or not she's telling the truth about how primed he is for Chamon affinity wise?
 
I think Mandreds affinity is being oversold. I would like to remind people that Mathilde had an affinity for predicting storms.

I don't think it means all that much at this stage to be honest.
Mathilde had "a fascination with storms". She couldn't predict them. Presumably, storms involve many Winds by default (Azyr for the actual storm, Aqshy for any fires started, Ulgu for the shadows of the clouds, Shyish perhaps for the depression brought etc.).

The person who could predict the weather in advance as a kid was Hubert.
 
The person who could predict the weather in advance as a kid was Hubert.

And look what happened to Hubert. A good example of how an affinity for the elemental part of a Wind doesn't mean Mandred is going to have affinity for being in the respective order, or even like it at all.

We know he likes knights and fighting and isn't particularly interested in Learning related stuff, which to me seems a better fit for the Bright Order's mindset and less so for the Golds' 'cold and analytic' one.
 
Mathilde had "a fascination with storms". She couldn't predict them. Presumably, storms involve many Winds by default (Azyr for the actual storm, Aqshy for any fires started, Ulgu for the shadows of the clouds, Shyish perhaps for the depression brought etc.).

The person who could predict the weather in advance as a kid was Hubert.
By comparation Mandred has shown jack shit with gold wind. Gehenne didn't even say he had an affinity for the wind she said he is sutable to wield elemental Chamon. Those are not same things. So yes still very oversold complete with misconception about what is Gehenna is saying.

And look what happened to Hubert. A good example of how an affinity for the elemental part of a Wind doesn't mean Mandred is going to have affinity for being in the respective order, or even like it at all.

We know he likes knights and fighting and isn't particularly interested in Learning related stuff, which to me seems a better fit for the Bright Order's mindset and less so for the Golds' 'cold and analytic' one.
Exactly this. Impartan part of this vote is to ensure whatever collage we choose does not ruin him with their expectations that does not fit him.

There are examples in every collage that succeded despite such barriers Johan being biggest example but make no mistake those barriers exist and there is a very real chance that Mandred could fail to overcome them and we would be the ones setting him to fail.

Jade Elector Count for example might sound good in paper but in practice it is throwing kid in to sharks full of religious zealots fighting over collage politics. Only way I would vote for that if I hated Mandred really.
 
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And look what happened to Hubert. A good example of how an affinity for the elemental part of a Wind doesn't mean Mandred is going to have affinity for being in the respective order, or even like it at all.

We know he likes knights and fighting and isn't particularly interested in Learning related stuff, which to me seems a better fit for the Bright Order's mindset and less so for the Golds' 'cold and analytic' one.
By comparation Mandred has shown jack shit with gold wind. Gehenne didn't even say he had an affinity for the wind she said he is sutable to wield elemental Chamon. Those are not same things. So yes still very oversold complete with isconception about what is Gehenna is saying.
I mean sure, these are all valid points but I wasn't making an argument that Mandred should be a Gold. I was pointing out that Mathilde doesn't seem to have had a particular affinity for any of the Winds.
 
I mean sure, these are all valid points but I wasn't making an argument that Mandred should be a Gold. I was pointing out that Mathilde doesn't seem to have had a particular affinity for any of the Winds.
No kid at 10 have an affinity. Not even Mandred! Hubert was more of an edge case and even then he could probably steered somewhere else and got Celestials both because he was a noble and because there was no other argument against it. He would have been far happier if he went to Brights for example

Edit: Found this; Gold Apprentice Mandred trying to memorize elemental table illustrated;
 
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