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Supreme Patriarch does seem like it might be the highest position in the empire that you can actually retire from. Then again the argument can be made that the Chamberlain of the Seal or Grand Marshall is higher.
 
If we took issue with Tzar Vladimir Bokha not stepping down if he wasn't going to do the job right, I feel like the Emperor can also step down if he wants.
 
Abdication would likely be an option for any of the elector counts. Abdicating as emperor though would be a far more difficult sell to anyone. I don't think you could set aside being the emperor without also setting aside being the elector count.

Grand theoginist seems like it's probably the most powerful position one could actively retire from without causing some kind of crisis. Given the number of votes it has and the apparatus in place to support it, Grand Theoginist might be a more powerful position than Supreme Patriarch.
 
I mean if you literally go to the other elector counts and go "I'm not willing to do this shit anymore, let's vote for somebody else" I very much doubt they would refuse to vote for somebody else.
 
I´m not sure why people think abdication is a bad?

Sigmar himself fucking abdicated.

Of course, there is a difference between abdication enforced by external sources, like, say, a rebellion, or civil war, and abdication because you no longer feel fit to perform your duties (at least as far as your chances to live beyond it go) but lmao at Emperor being "unable" to abdicate with that kind of precedent.
 
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I´m not sure why people think abdication is a bad?
Historically? Political instability for the nation and a whole lot of pissed off faction members in the court who used up their political clot to get you that throne/keep you on that throne or just in general have hitched their ride to yours.

As they say, 'no man rules alone', so if you, the bus driver, jump out of the moving vehicle.

There is going to be a lot of passengers who are going to be very very miffed at you.

If they politically survive (or just survive depending on the type of Court intrigued.) you doing so.
 
Historically? Political instability for the nation and a whole lot of pissed off faction members in the court who used up their political clot to get you that throne/keep you on that throne or just in general have hitched their ride to yours.
I mean yes, that is what abdication usually means, but its not the only case, and i don´t see why "welp, im out", would be, in this case, bad.

Plenty of abdications happened without that underlying issue.
 
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It would obviously depend on context, and why you abdicate.

Do you have a clear, established heir, and you're stepping aside to make sure the succession works? That's good. People might grumble because they prefer you, but nobody will get up in arms, and it'll probably get some respect. With the emperor, it's difficult because designating an heir isn't within his power, so you'd have to do a decent amount of politicking to make it happen beforehand.

Is there some other reason you step aside, like a sever injury or sickness, that makes you incapable of ruling? That's very dutiful. Unless it's really bad, you should designate an heir first and let them establish themselves, but it's still respectable.

Doy you abdicate to follow a life of hedonism? People would be pissed, and probably fuck with you if they can, but you probably weren't doing too much ruling anyway, and frankly good riddance. Unless you were doing a good job before, then they'd send the witch hunters because that is sus.

Similarly, maybe you're very religious, and wish to fully dedicate yourself to your god (or something like that). That probably would get you a lot of grumbling, and many would see it as a front for another reason (probably an internal coup), and likely selfish/foolish, but I don't think people would argue too hard to keep you. You're selfish and foolish, after all.

I think the one option that could really get people pissed is if you're abdicating because you don't get your way. Maybe that's because you have some really dumb ideas, in which case good riddance, though you're leaving a mess. Maybe the realm is very divided, in which case you're a weak ruler, but the ensuing civil war is probably inevitable.

The main reason why monarchs don't abdicate is that people like power, and don't like giving it up. More so when it's quite dangerous, because the new king might get rid of the old so they don't pose any risk (of changing their mind or being turned into a figurehead).

We actually see what is effectively an abdication in the thread: Anton and Anton Senior. That's probably the cultural norm of how things ought to be done.
 
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Might be good to have your heir gradually take over your Elector Count stuff as you grow old, and then maybe they won't be in completely over their head if they do inherit the empire as well.

Can't have your heir doing emperor duties on your behalf, since the position is elected.
 
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Might be good to have your heir gradually take over your Elector Count stuff as you grow old, and then maybe they won't be in completely over their head if they do inherit the empire as well.

Can't have your heir doing emperor duties on your behalf, since the position is elected.
It is, but it's important to note that the last emperors all came from the same dynasty. It's currently in a transitional phase towards hereditary succession. The same thing happened IRL. Of course, Mandred's magic means the pattern will probably be broken (unless they've got another kid, which is possible, but I don't think Heidi has that intention). So a non-magical Mandred would probably get some light Emperor duties (like hobnobbing), exactly because that pushes towards the position no-longer being elected.

But yes, a well-done succession has the heir take up increasing portions of the ruling, which gives them a chance to learn under guidance, and minimizes the interruption during the transition. It often doesn't work, but we also note the cases where it doesn't work more strongly, because it generally results in a civil war/conflict (not just a whole kingdom, it can happen with a barony and dozens of men on the different sides as well).
 
I thought we decided the hardest position in the Empire to relinquish was Patriarch of the Grey College? *Faking your own death* is insufficient when there are half-a-dozen masters of intrigue hell-bent on ensuring you keep doing the damn job only so they don't have to. :V
 
Found a neat video of 15th Century bookbinding in action, which should be roughly analogous to the time period of the quest, and which might give some insight into the sorts of things Belegar is funding in K8P with the KAU stipend.


View: https://youtu.be/lQ50XdqfG00?si=PgYTad8rx7T83Mdx

Obviously not every book will have quite as many embellishments and furnishings, but certainly this is how I could see some of the more notable and well-known books we've transcribed get treated.

This video was spellbinding. Simply beautiful, a simple beauty. The world felt more right when the tome was completed. I am further happy when I imagine the Karak Eight Peaks book operation.
 
I thought we decided the hardest position in the Empire to relinquish was Patriarch of the Grey College? *Faking your own death* is insufficient when there are half-a-dozen masters of intrigue hell-bent on ensuring you keep doing the damn job only so they don't have to.
Every time a Patriarch of the Grey Order dies, it starts intracollege nationwide manhunt.
 
The biggest problem with stepping down as a ruler isn't that some might not like that you did that. It's from your successor seeing you as a threat to his rule.
Stepping down isn't someone deciding you can't you rule, it's you deciding you can't or won't. And you can change your mind.
So any successor sees the one stepping down as someone another faction to rally around with wich to threaten his rule.
 
And what makes you think people in this thread broadly consider Sigmar competent? :V

I mean, the thread did not, but it may have shaped the culture of the Empire.

The biggest problem with stepping down as a ruler isn't that some might not like that you did that. It's from your successor seeing you as a threat to his rule.
Stepping down isn't someone deciding you can't you rule, it's you deciding you can't or won't. And you can change your mind.
So any successor sees the one stepping down as someone another faction to rally around with wich to threaten his rule.

On the other hand, this is also a problem Sigmar definitely didn't have. Good luck killing him even with an army, lmao.
 
40K Negaverse: Seeking the Way
OK so first off this was inspired by the 40K Negaverse here by @BurnNote, without it I would not be writing this so many thanks for that. :)

40K Negaverse: Seeking the Way

Mathilde is a Sanctioned Psyker comes from the planet of Stir Secundus, somewhere in the Ultima Segmentum on the other side of the galactic core from Tera. By chance, if that is what you want to call it, she is send back to the planet to aid the newly made Sector Governor Abelheim van Hel is an Inquisitor who was granted Sector Governership for heroic deeds. He too has a history with this place as it was his ancestor who unleashed a blight of Abominable Intelligence upon the sector to defend against an invasion of xenos. Now poor Abelheim is working on a shoestring budget with subordinates of dubious skill, some of them are thieves, some of them are zealots (he does not have a very good impression of the Imperial Cult ever since they refused to send aid for his reconquest campaign) and one of them is a young noble called Anton. The governor sends him looking for mercenaries with some hints that if he were to find some who are not... entirely in the Light of the Emperor that is fine they can redeem themselves. He comes back with the maybe-posibily-we-do not-talk-about-it sentient Eldari Void Stalker Class Battleship Deathfang dating back to the heyday of the Eldar Empire captained by exiled admiral from Ulthwé, Asarnil. At this point any sector governor who did not also have a bloody rosette would have executed him for heresy. Abelheim goes 'well done Anton, lets kill those AI'. Also since he already has a major xenos asset in his fleet he does not even blink at making a treaty with the Spakerönde of Zhufbar to burn out the Abominable intelligence once and for all.

Mathilde who has an unusual skill at illusion for a Primaris Psyker uses that to... actually speak Eldari properly, full sensory experience. Admiral Asarnil is so amazed by this that he actually opens up a bit. He is not sharing any deep secrets of the Eldar, but even what little Mathilde reads between the lines is enough to convince her that is there is to be any hope of deafeating chaos it must include the aid of the elder races, the Imperium alone will fall, it is falling all around her day by day.

As though to prove that point Abelheim's campaign ends in tragedy with Mathilde taking up his Relic Power Sword to defend him and only the forces of Votans and and Eldar ship hanging on at the end. Those Anals of Imperial history that were not utterly redacted would mark this as the forging of a heretic unlike any the Imperium of Man had seen since the days of the Great Crusade. On that battlefield Mathilde would receive Abelheim Van Hall's secret treasure and shame, a man of Iron STC

Now made an inquisitor Mathilde bearing the rosette of her late master would depart for Votans space together with the Space Marine Chapter of the White Wolves which had left their recruiting world for unclear and potentially shameful reasons. Ostensibly Mathilde goes to spy on them and on the strange abhumans, though her mind is on other matters. In the ancient ruined system known only as VAU, playing host to a staggering eight living worlds battle is joined. After a series of psychic and other weird shenanigans during the initial invasion Mathilde would gain the eye and favor of the Laughing God after channeling vast amounts of Waagh energy into a slumbering shrine of the Eldar God that no one had recognized much less used in millennia.

Settling in to her role as chief warp-wrangler, now with the aid of her own divine patron Mathilde would gain psychic insights and hone her mind against greenskins and fouler xenos, the same ones that had prompted Vanhell to unleash the AI upon Stir. Here she would be joined by Magos Johann of the mechanicus with an... unusual interest in xeno-tech, a bevy of other psykers, including the Biomancer Panoramia whom Mathilde would eventually fall in love with. But it was a scouting mission with the aid of Magus Johann that would set into motion the chain of events that would have her lead armies of the Kindred to scour all Eight Planets of xenos and greenskins and in the process discover that the shrine of the Laughing God was not the only Eldari artifact on the world indeed there are more, strange carved stones that show evidence of both Eldari and Kindred work. Once triggered these stones stabilize the local warp to a degree that is unheard of reducing the voices of the warp that every psyker must contend with to whispers of whispers.

The destruction of a massive Ork Waagh with the aid of a psychic station of her own design and the political cover given to her by Abelheim's daughter is one of the few things that ward away an investigation that would be Inquisitor Weber's end yet she is not deterred. Having already learned many of the deep secrets of the Votan from spending so long in a hold of the Kindred, their use of Ancestor Cores, their cloning technology Mathilde is not the least shocked by the evidence of xeno-heresy and neither are those psykers and tech-priests with her. Instead they are intrigued.

That is how they learn that in the depths of the Age of Strife the Leagues of Votan had allied with Craftworld Ulthwé in battle and yet in the creation of these 'waystones' which are a significant part of how the Votan survived. But that alliance is dead, sundered by some great betrayal. Perhaps that is where things would have ended if word had not come from the Exodite world of Tor Laur that they had sensed the awakening of the stones and wished to partner with Spakerönde VAU to rediscover the nature of these ancient works and perhaps reforge them.

Mathilde accepts and so does the Council of Ancestors, more than that she draws the White Wolves into the conspiracy, using their chapter's deep dislike the the Ecclesiarchy's callousness as leverage.

So it Begins.

OOC: I know the White Wolves are kind of shoehorned in there, but there is no way a whole chapter would not notice all the techno-heresy and sorcery going on so they had to come on board somehow.
 
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