Or, just hear me out here, we drop em off, then if someone asks how we did it we just say, "The same way I made a liminal realm" and vanish in a puff of smoke for 6 months
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Or, just hear me out here, we drop em off, then if someone asks how we did it we just say, "The same say I made a liminal realm" and vanish in a puff of smoke for 6 months
Just three months, the action is 3AP, but yeah, tempting
The Empire isn't Nehekhara, where the Winds it does receive are minimal. The Empire's riverine leylines would be moving a lot more magic than Nehekhara's. Not to mention, the problem with releasing the magic from the river is that you're releasing the magic from the river. As far as I can tell, the main limit of the waystone network in general is absorption. They can take magic from tributaries and waystones and nexuses just fine. But waystones can only take in so much energy from the air at a time. You are inevitably going to have efficiency losses. Thus, you end up dumping corruption somewhere. I think it is possible we could minimize it to be worth the effort overall. But I don't even think that we should be deploying waystones in Sylvania, or other areas where the Network is completely destroyed, until we have brought as many regions as we can to stability.
We *do* still have the whole, "Act of black magic, break out the fire and swords" hurdle with the orbital waystones. Maaaybe having Laurelorn elves make it instead of wizards would be enough for that but it is still definitely a concern.
I do think we can get dispensation for this act of black magic. It is rather integral to our building of waystones, and it does make intuitive sense that to move the black magic you have somewhat touch the black magic.
Still, should do that beforehand and get it in gromrilclad writing...
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
All other plans are just specifying "everyone". Why are you excluding not just Egrimm, but also Aksel and Cadaeth? They deserve to be part of our first Waystone as much as everyone else.
Sidenote, I wonder who our point of contact with Ulthuan will be.
I mean, Mathilde certainly had ideas about just, sticking enough waystones in the river to suck it all back out and we could use regular leylines to the nearby Nexus from those waystones. And if they aren't sufficient to the amount of magic you just stick a couple more in the river
Because I think that the enthusiasm to have everyone on here might be hitting the 'too many cooks' limitation that is fundamental to why we even have to assign people on the first place. But to give specific reasons for why not those three
- Anything Egrimm is liable to say Elryse can probably cover for and then some given why we hired her, she is a specialist on this aspect of Light Order lore
- The waystone includes no divine aspect and any spirit stuff can probably be handled by Baba N
- Cadaeth's tree lore is unlikely to be required and her general elf lore is covered by the two other elves
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Outside of the absolute best option (elf-dad), Loremaster Belannaer would be pretty good? He was one of Teclis's teachers, and helped with the Waystone repair in Yvresse.
(In a timeline that probably won't happen, he was also the one to instruct Eltharion in the use of a Greatsword after he'd been blinded by Malekith)
Eh, it should be fine. We surely could get a dispensation from the Emperor if it turns out to be a problem. But if it that takes too much work to be worth it, yeah we can get Laurelorn to make it. The enchantment itself isn't Dark Magic, Mathilde would have mentioned it if it was. I am not sure how it can orbit the winds around Dhar without being made with High Magic, but I am not complaining.
I wonder if the Ice Witches can make it. I imagine the Damsels can do it, but the Ice Witches don't use the Winds.
Ulthuan would probably build its own waystones.
I don't think that people would be offended if they weren't included on making the Waystone. Cadaeth doesn't have any experience with waystones. She knows tributaries, but not the waystones propers. Aksel is more questionable though.
Ulthuan might not have a dedicated representative. It's possible they will send whatever experts they have for whatever thing we are poking at.
That sounds like a solution Mathilde could use to mitigate the issue. It won't remove the issue. Unless you replace whatever city you're targetting with waystones, corruption will leak and maybe even with doing that. Not to mention, those are waystones you end up not putting in more critical areas.
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If the plan gets enough momentum, I expect somebody will make a variant with "Everyone" since this seems the most popular option. Plus, it seems weird to even choose who to put on the action before we have the sub-vote for components.
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Funny But OOC.Or, just hear me out here, we drop em off, then if someone asks how we did it we just say, "The same say I made a liminal realm" and vanish in a puff of smoke for 6 months
Embrace the Virgin Magister Chad Mathilde dynamic:
To put my money where my mouth is Cite:
Edit: Spelling
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's not about who is most useful for this action specifically. It's about giving all of the people who agreed to spend so much precious time and effort on the Waystone Project a seat at the table when we finally make our first Waystone. Excluding anyone for any reason sends a very bad message to that person and everyone else.
We're not assigning too many cooks. We've inviting everyone to get together at the table when the food is served.
This isn't the knife fight I want to have during the vote. I don't want to be stressed out for days at a time about an Everyone variant plan nearly but not quite overtaking the original.
I don't think you should approach this like a normal research action and try to work out who can contribute what from first principles. We already know what everyone has to contributed because we already had everyone develop the Waystone components.
- Egrimm and Elrisse's contribution was the Collegiate storage mechanisem, which uses materials and/or enchantments, and the Collegiate Fascis, which uses enchantment. If you're going to include just one of them it should probably be Egrimm, who is an enchanter.
- Cadaeth's contribution was to say "yeah, what Niedzwenka said" when we were working on river leylines, so maybe she could be left out. However, Cadaeth was the one who personally proposed the Waystone project to us. Are we really leaving her out of this one?
- Aksel's contribution was the bag of rocks. I think that leaving him out is more or less saying in advance that we won't use it in our prototype - we could use it without him because the bag of rock already exists, but we would probably want him around for troubleshooting if we go that route, right?
- I think it's likely that our first prototype will not use river leylines at all, so if you want to pre-commit to that maybe you can leave Aksel out, but in that case go ahead and leave Niedzwenka out as well since her only Waystone component contribution was a river leyline method.
- Sarvoi actually didn't contribute any one component either (though he did help a lot on the river leylines), but I think you kind of have to have him onboard because he's the house Tindomiel representative and they have that deal with the right of first refusal on Wind-based mechanisms.
- EDIT: oh and Zlata contributed jack shit but you should keep her on this action to guilt her into convincing the Ice Court to share more with us
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Yeah, the ice court really won the whole, "learn everyone's secrets and give up absolutely none" competition by sending her.
Possibly. It might be more accurate to treat the components people contributed as lower bounds on their potential contributions - if things go wrong, who knows what they'll have to say regarding whatever problems we face? By that logic we probably should include Zlata, as the Ice Court supposedly manipulated the leylines, so if we run into trouble with the leylines Zlata might have some insight into that. Here's hoping she actually tells us anything if that happens.
If we were putting everyone onto every waystone action, then yeah, I would be concerned about "too many cooks". But this is one action, quite possibly the only waystone action we do this turn (although doing a dwarf action with Thorek also looks likely), and I can't see people burning out and getting in each others way.
This is a collaborative effort, combing all the efforts people have contributed so far, and telling Zlata or Aksel or Cadaeth "sorry, you are too much of a hindrance, you can't be involved in the most important part of the project" makes me feel deeply uncomfortable.
We started with everyone on the Foundations action, and we should end this phase with everyone on the waystone prototype action.
This is a collaborative effort, combing all the efforts people have contributed so far, and telling Zlata or Aksel or Cadaeth "sorry, you are too much of a hindrance, you can't be involved in the most important part of the project" makes me feel deeply uncomfortable.
We started with everyone on the Foundations action, and we should end this phase with everyone on the waystone prototype action.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Part of me wants to go
[ ] Waystone Prototype (Everyone but Thorek)
[ ] Waystone Prototype (Thorek)
And thus soft-lock in a Runic Capstone/Runic Storage/Clockwork Orbital/Runesmith-Carved Waystone Rune/Passphrase Leyline build as one of the options. It would sidestep the whole "how are we going to mangle this whole mess of paradigms to work together" problem by using only a single paradigm.
Let the Umgi and Elgi get up to their nonsense on their own time.
[ ] Waystone Prototype (Everyone but Thorek)
[ ] Waystone Prototype (Thorek)
And thus soft-lock in a Runic Capstone/Runic Storage/Clockwork Orbital/Runesmith-Carved Waystone Rune/Passphrase Leyline build as one of the options. It would sidestep the whole "how are we going to mangle this whole mess of paradigms to work together" problem by using only a single paradigm.
Let the Umgi and Elgi get up to their nonsense on their own time.
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I think loremaster Belannaer is probably to politically important to be sent to monitor a project in the old world. Even if it's Waystone related.
It will probably be just your average Joe/Jane Loremaster. (Well, as far as a master elf mage can be 'average')
Since there seems to be a broad consensus on putting everyone on Waystones, for various reasons with some pretty good arguments given as to what people could contribute here we go, (hopefully) the final change to this
[] Plan Orbs, Stones and Scopes, Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration
-[ ] Create Orbs of Sorcery solo (requires one of each Power Stone)
-[ ] Serenity: Write a book : Aethyric Vitae 1/2
-[ ] Waystone: Build a Waystone: Everyone.
-[ ] Waystone: Other Networks Karaz Ankor: Runelord Thorek
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm (Auditory Seviroscope) Spend 5 CF for a Magister with Auditory Magesight to help out
-[ ] JOHANN: Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Storms)
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs, The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society
-[ ] EIC: Gather as much Ithilmar from throughout the Old World as possible to resell to the Eonir for a one-time profit
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Karak Vlag Archives)
-[ ] COIN: Gambler: Build a Waystone
-[ ] Eike Study: Learn Enchantment at the Colleges 1 CF
-[ ] Eike Actions: Karaz Ankor Network with Thorek, Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm, Explore the Ward of Storms with Johann
A lot of the pieces are dwarf made and Thorek has unique insights that it makes sense to incorporate. We might as well take everyone and hope that they do not get in each other's way.
[] Plan Orbs, Stones and Scopes, Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration
-[ ] Create Orbs of Sorcery solo (requires one of each Power Stone)
-[ ] Serenity: Write a book : Aethyric Vitae 1/2
-[ ] Waystone: Build a Waystone: Everyone.
-[ ] Waystone: Other Networks Karaz Ankor: Runelord Thorek
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm (Auditory Seviroscope) Spend 5 CF for a Magister with Auditory Magesight to help out
-[ ] JOHANN: Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Storms)
-[ ] MAX: Receive dictation: Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs, The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society
-[ ] EIC: Gather as much Ithilmar from throughout the Old World as possible to resell to the Eonir for a one-time profit
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Karak Vlag Archives)
-[ ] COIN: Gambler: Build a Waystone
-[ ] Eike Study: Learn Enchantment at the Colleges 1 CF
-[ ] Eike Actions: Karaz Ankor Network with Thorek, Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm, Explore the Ward of Storms with Johann
A lot of the pieces are dwarf made and Thorek has unique insights that it makes sense to incorporate. We might as well take everyone and hope that they do not get in each other's way.
I don't think Cadaeth is that necessary and I don't really like this argument. She came to us as a diplomat, not as a researcher. But the forestborn Mathilde met on the road to Oldenditz implied that Cadaeth had a personal interest in the waystones. She seemed interested in more than just the lornalim. She might get annoyed if she isn't part of the initial prototyping effort. She might not either: she knows she didn't provide any components. It probably is best to include her, but I feel off about having too many cooks.
I could see us making river leylines for the prototype, they are simpler to make. Of all the places we would have access, Laurelorn would probably be the most capable of using them. The Grey Lords have thoroughly tamed the spirits of the wood.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I will add my voice to the throng urging @DragonParadox to put everyone on the waystone action. If you leave off anyone, I'd say leave off the golds and Egrimm because they're being kept busy by webmat actions, but even them I'd prefer to have available for this. For a task this large, I think there will be plenty for our team to do without getting in each other's way, while we're figuring things out and throwing stuff at the wall, just like for Laying the Foundations. Once an approach is finalized, future working groups can be more focused.
Fake edit: well shit, he beat me to it. I guess now I'll repurpose this post to a general offer for the thread: if you have a plan but don't think you'll be around when the vote opens, @ or DM me and I'll post it for you.
Fake edit: well shit, he beat me to it. I guess now I'll repurpose this post to a general offer for the thread: if you have a plan but don't think you'll be around when the vote opens, @ or DM me and I'll post it for you.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It's a joke, really.
The Rune-only Waystone also doesn't actually work for its intended use-case (The Karaz Ankor's own network), as you can't use the pass-phrase to get Caledor's help in forging a leyline when your network isn't connected to the Vortex. Like, it's possible there's an outlet passing through Tilea/Estalia, but I think the KA network probably is entirely isolated and feeding its input into its Great Works.
So all it would accomplish is to invent a product that relies entirely on Runesmith labour that doesn't actually benefit the Dwarves. Good luck spreading that across the Old World in any real quantity.
We'd need to do alternative Leyline research (probably Material) and cut out that last non-Dwarf component if we wanted to do this kind of prototype.
I'll be traveling tomorrow and I may or may not be home already when the vote opens so is you could do that for my plan that would be great.