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You wanna gift the journeymanlings? Given em some cash. Only the Grey Order has a Oath of Poverty, as far as I know.

Everyone (who isn't us) can always use a little more money- Panoramia will barely clear her College debt with the expedition pay plus the Halfling farming Comission.

At least Vlad the Dad can.
Now that's taking Mathildes putative father-figure-fixation too far. :V
 
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So I thankfully missed a lot of the acrimonious debate over weapons, but I do feel the need to remind people that unless we get a runelord who has spent a lot of time working with the priests of that particular God (aka not Kragg/other top runelords) they won't be as good with making swords due to severe lack of experience.

It's the whole reason the idea of getting Max to make a sword and enchanting it ourselves came up.
 
You wanna gift the journeymanlings? Given em some cash. Only the Grey Order has a Oath of Poverty, as far as I know.

Everyone (who isn't us) can always use a little more- Panoramia will barely clear her college debt with the expedition pay plus thr Halfling farming Comission.
I like the commemorative beltknife idea. Shouldn't cost any favor and is a more personal and immediately useful gift.
 
So I thankfully missed a lot of the acrimonious debate over weapons, but I do feel the need to remind people that unless we get a runelord who has spent a lot of time working with the priests of that particular God (aka not Kragg/other top runelords) they won't be as good with making swords due to severe lack of experience.

It's the whole reason the idea of getting Max to make a sword and enchanting it ourselves came up.
We could always use an axe...
 
Even if a dwarf rune of silence exists (which I doubt because sneaking about is not very prestigious for them and thus would not merit rune support) we could not stick it on a sword.
Don't forget that we only know some of their runes, namely the ones relevant enough in a fight to be mentioned in tabletop wargame or rpg. We don't know anything about utility or industrial or recreational runes, and I think that the silence rune could very handy in a smithy, for example.
 
I honestly am against the too-blinged-out greatsword for somewhat meta reason: I want to play this quest as a little more of early-game-ish management/advisor/spy thing, and less of an adventurer murderhobo.

An adventure arc or three is exciting and fun, but I still have my preferences, so.

What I'd love to be able to spend favours on is, like, establishing a network of informants and making useful connections. Learning parts of Dwarf Lore which make us better at talking to dwarfs, learning enough economics to help EIC or other merchants to cooperate with dwarfs (or to get in the way of cooperation if we want to), all that jazz.
Sword just makes us a really good murderhobo, which is perfectly fine if that's how you want to play the quest! But I am not precisely into spending all remainder of time monofocused on that.

Mind, I am alright with 10, maybe 15 favour-sword; but anything more than 15 is deffo not my cup of tea. Even aside from spending some on tower and a set of investigative tools (dwarf-tools are explicitly going to be better at being inert, thus making them better for experiments with Weird Shit), as I've said, I want favours to do better with organizational duties of spymaster/nominally Imperial person in the Hold.

edit: and yeah, I am all for giving some gifts to Journeymanlings; nothing too Big, but some useful trinket to each would be incredibly sweet, I think.
Making them personal would be even better...I don't know what would any of them want though. Just money is useful enough, but a bit impersonal - still fine though! But, hm...

@BoneyM , how feasible/priced (in either gold or favours) would be to commission something like this for the journeymanlings:
1. Panoramia - she is going to be a potionmaker; gift/commission for her a magical seeds pouch in which they never go bad (does setting even have Bags of Holding btw?). Alternatively, a right proper set of alchemical tools.
2. Johan - no idea what he would want; he is a Chamon wizard, so we could commission some armour for him if he wants to. Maybe a Dwarf-made helmet with some minor Rune of Clear Sight or something?
3. Maximillian - idk, same as Johan? He wants to be a ranged figher of a wizard, so maybe a good bow or crossbow? Or some talisman of Hitting Your Target (+1 BS mechanically?). He'll be staying in Hold learning smithing though, so that's less valuable to him.
4. Esbern - she loves fighting with a bow or bare hands, and dwarfs are not great bow-makers. They cannot make good stirrups or whatnot either. Uhhh...I am lost. Some talisman with Rune of Parrying or whatever?
5. Seija - fights with a spear, speccs into animal handling. Can always just gift them all 5 Lustrian eggs :V Or, failing that, a solid dwarf-made spear with a Rune of something.


Mind, we do not have to do any of that. But it's a nice gesture. And you know how in fantasy after the big quest heroes always get some cool personalized trinkets (see, for example, Galadriel and Fellowship in Lorien)? I dig that.
 
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I don't think so, not debt to an Elector Count.
Debt to a random usurer- yes, problematic. But this is a debt that ties her to Stirland, to one of the pillars of the Empire.
Anyway, Mathilde is rapidly becoming The Grey Wizard Who Does Financial Shenanigans.

When they see our latest schemes' 14,000 gold windfall, I expect a piddling loan of less than 10% of that sum will be the least of the Bursars concerns... :V

The Grey College seems to be taking particular care in maintaining its independence even from Electors though.

Sure it isn't truly problematic but even after paying full tithes to the College and Ranald we're still left with an unseemly pile of gold that needs to be whittled down to something relatively acceptable to a Grey Wizard.
 
[X] This is Dawongr Weber's money.
[X] Karag Nar penthouse
[X] Claim the site where Ranald mugged Mork and build a shrine to Ranald there.
[X] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
[X] You're going to have a rough time explaining your windfall to the Bursars. Better to get that over with.
 
Where can we find a teacher for Greatswords?

We should finish this up soon, if we get 3/3 do we gain a trait?
The Ulrican knights should have some.
And yes.
In practice it would amount for the same thing:
  1. Asking them what they want
  2. Suggesting that the dwarfs make it
  3. Hand it to them
That is transferring favor.
I think it'd be appropriate if we owed them our lives or something, rather than them doing their jobs and us doing our jobs.
I took a look around. Is this the one you were referencing?
Close enough.
I mean, if we want to give all our Journeymanlings something to remember us by, why not just give them a bound spell each? I'm pretty sure we can do it on objects rather than them directly, and it will be one use only- but it's a hell of a lot more personal (and affordable) than Dwarf commissions.
Ulgu can't bind to objects. Needs SOME kind of mind in them, and the bound spell is cast on the bound creature.

Maxmillian could.
Personally I think we don't need a particular memento just to have mementos. We were their nominal commanding officer for this campaign, we worked with them to effect, and we did science together for a bit.

Look at them each:
-Panoramia will be staying here for a few years to revitalize the land, then testing for Magister. What she has in mementos was us working with her to collect rare plants, which she'd be working with in the years to come. Its more personal than any gift or enchantment.
-Maxmillian will be staying here for at least a few years to learn smithing under a Clan Angrund smith. Depending on his aptitude and the smith's skill this might take a decade. For him what he'd consider a good memento is probably wielding something he made as advertising when he's done.
-Johann we never really liked and vice versa. Not much memento stuff.
-Esbern and Selja have their lionbirds which is a better memory of this campaign than just about anything else. Ambers don't tend to value material possessions that much, though the dino eggs might be worthwhile or not. We'll see yet.
Whilst I am inclined to agree, for us there is no reason we would want to pay back a no interest debt. Which is why I argued against it before, but I was thinking from a diplomatic point of view. Stirland is still recovering, and it is a sizable sum, plus our fief and friends and memory's are in stirland. Mathilde might want to make peace with the new elector count. And paying back the "debt" the little lass no doubt knows about might help. At the very least, its important from a reputation point of view. It can be used against us. If I remember correctly, I was merely reminding people of Ranalds ring, and how we can use it to patch relations using the debt as an excuse. We could settle the debt when ever, I was just positing the idea in others heads about uses for that damn ring. That being said, I would recommend settling that debt, when we decide to return to the empire permanently. After our stint with the dwarfs, if we decide to become a spymaster or advisor for an Elector Count or noble family or we just return period. We don't want the debt hanging on our head, period. People keep talking about our long life span, some might posit the argument that we are abusing our longer life span, to get away with not paying the debt. Even if we were to make a partial payment. That being said, you mention the profits paying off the debt. My memory was that our profits were being funneled back as investment into the EIC. If as you said, our profits are activily paying off the debt. We have proof we our activly paying back said debt, and this isn't a weapon to be used against us or are allies politically. Can we get a copy of all the documentation at the EIC. I worry our proof of paying our debt might disappear.
A couple of points.
1) The contract is ironclad, the debt is being paid, and the documentation is done by the current owner of the EIC. Furthermore, as a Grey Wizard she can put the squeeze on but nothing for her to squeeze out. Confiscating the fief would be a net loss to her, on top of rustling the jimmies of basically every merchant and noble in Stirland.

2) Roswita actually respects Mathilde just fine, she just considers magic too risky to have in her council, or more importantly, in her personal presence. This point is one that players have a persistent problem with, we generally have trouble with fine gradations of relationship than friend and foe.
2.1) The current situation of Mathilde doing hero things far, far from Stirland is basically perfect. The heroic wizard is far from the Empire, doing good things for the Empire, and when she inevitably explodes nothing that matters(like Elector Counts) will be caught up in the explosion.

2.2) Her debt means that the biggest trading concern in Stirland is feeding the national treasury a much needed drip of cash. While she'd prefer to have all the money now, theres literally no way to get it. The money doesn't exist, and Stirland would need to spend more than what she could get just to send people over to call on the debt. At best she might put the squeeze on our steward to turn over the income from our fief. Pity the fief generates shit all in money huh? Its more a place to dump money into charity than make money.

2.3) Mathilde's resignation was remarkably civil for how she was treated. The spy network was handed over intact, so she doesn't have to spend the first decade of office building ANYTHING at all. The friggin Runefang was delivered.

2.4) Word on the rumor mill from all the returning Stirlanders was that Mathilde disappeared off the map for a few months then emerged killing three warbosses in solo infiltration-assassinations. Nobody knows how those were incredibly lucky opportunities, only that she goes in, and comes out with the leader dead, and everything sabotaged. All indications from her side is that if Mathilde WAS mortally offended they'd probably have found themselves with a rogue Grey Magister and a dead Elector Count. Best not to kick the beehive without reason.

2.5) Finally, right this turn? The Stirland economic problems are wiped. Over nine thousand Stirlanders are going home to buy farmland from Roswita with loot in the neighborhood of a 50-100 gold each, and the sudden surge in demand means she could jack up the price and rely on the soldiers simply not knowing the value of their money to squeeze out more.
2.5.1) And of course the EIC would be making mad bank all the while. Nobody better placed to supply all the seeds and tools the newly wealthy farmers need.

As far as Roswita is concerned the debt is not a concern, and Mathilde is a sadly cursed patriot.
 
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Only quibble is that those types of Counter Magic runes are talismans and we've already got the belt. There are some other problems like being Dwarf only or temperary but Boney has waved away a lot of minor rune rules already. I don't think he will/should easily wave the equipment limits away though as that's a pretty important power creep limiter.
I don't want a counter magic talisman, our belt already does that. I want a tool we can take out to apply to a specific thing. If it takes any slot at all, it should be the same slot as a weapon since it would be applied the same way. By that I mean "we take it in our hand, then point it and activate it, then put it away when not in use".

This is one of those things that would be logical to exist (or be made) in a narrative quest but can not be found in the rule-books because no one made them there yet.
For gameplay reasons I'd prefer an item that just reduced the effects of miscasts instead of the chances of a miscast happening. Would make the unpredictability of magic more apparent in this setting. Without us questers worried that a couple bad rolls will kill some allies.
I can certainly see that.
 
It's because I'm a selfish jerk. I thought that was clear. My apologies.
I mean if we want to phrase it in selfishese
"These journeymanlings who admired and respect us have potential to be useful in the future so their safety while not really in the top priority of things could be nice and a gift could help in fostering this relationship we have."

You wanna gift the journeymanlings? Given em some cash. Only the Grey Order has a Oath of Poverty, as far as I know.

Everyone (who isn't us) can always use a little more money- Panoramia will barely clear her College debt with the expedition pay plus the Halfling farming Comission.


Now that's taking Mathildes putative father-figure-fixation too far. :V
Ah...the enemies of every student
college debt.
this might be a good idea actually.
 
I mean if we want to phrase it in selfishese
"These journeymanlings who admired and respect us have potential to be useful in the future so their safety while not really in the top priority of things could be nice and a gift could help in fostering this relationship we have."

Yeah, it never hurts to have some good contacts among future wizards.
 
The Ulrican knights should have some.
And yes.

I think it'd be appropriate if we owed them our lives or something, rather than them doing their jobs and us doing our jobs.

Close enough.

Ulgu can't bind to objects. Needs SOME kind of mind in them, and the bound spell is cast on the bound creature.

Maxmillian could.
Personally I think we don't need a particular memento just to have mementos. We were their nominal commanding officer for this campaign, we worked with them to effect, and we did science together for a bit.

Look at them each:
-Panoramia will be staying here for a few years to revitalize the land, then testing for Magister. What she has in mementos was us working with her to collect rare plants, which she'd be working with in the years to come. Its more personal than any gift or enchantment.
-Maxmillian will be staying here for at least a few years to learn smithing under a Clan Angrund smith. Depending on his aptitude and the smith's skill this might take a decade. For him what he'd consider a good memento is probably wielding something he made as advertising when he's done.
-Johann we never really liked and vice versa. Not much memento stuff.
-Esbern and Selja have their lionbirds which is a better memory of this campaign than just about anything else. Ambers don't tend to value material possessions that much, though the dino eggs might be worthwhile or not. We'll see yet.

A couple of points.
1) The contract is ironclad, the debt is being paid, and the documentation is done by the current owner of the EIC. Furthermore, as a Grey Wizard she can put the squeeze on but nothing for her to squeeze out. Confiscating the fief would be a net loss to her, on top of rustling the jimmies of basically every merchant and noble in Stirland.

2) Roswita actually respects Mathilde just fine, she just considers magic too risky to have in her council, or more importantly, in her personal presence. This point is one that players have a persistent problem with, we generally have trouble with fine gradations of relationship than friend and foe.
2.1) The current situation of Mathilde doing hero things far, far from Stirland is basically perfect. The heroic wizard is far from the Empire, doing good things for the Empire, and when she inevitably explodes nothing that matters(like Elector Counts) will be caught up in the explosion.

2.2) Her debt means that the biggest trading concern in Stirland is feeding the national treasury a much needed drip of cash. While she'd prefer to have all the money now, theres literally no way to get it. The money doesn't exist, and Stirland would need to spend more than what she could get just to send people over to call on the debt. At best she might put the squeeze on our steward to turn over the income from our fief. Pity the fief generates shit all in money huh? Its more a place to dump money into charity than make money.

2.3) Mathilde's resignation was remarkably civil for how she was treated. The spy network was handed over intact, so she doesn't have to spend the first decade of office building ANYTHING at all. The friggin Runefang was delivered.

2.4) Word on the rumor mill from all the returning Stirlanders was that Mathilde disappeared off the map for a few months then emerged killing three warbosses in solo infiltration-assassinations. Nobody knows how those were incredibly lucky opportunities, only that she goes in, and comes out with the leader dead, and everything sabotaged. All indications from her side is that if Mathilde WAS mortally offended they'd probably have found themselves with a rogue Grey Magister and a dead Elector Count. Best not to kick the beehive without reason.

2.5) Finally, right this turn? The Stirland economic problems are wiped. Over nine thousand Stirlanders are going home to buy farmland from Roswita with loot in the neighborhood of a 50-100 gold each, and the sudden surge in demand means she could jack up the price and rely on the soldiers simply not knowing the value of their money to squeeze out more.
2.5.1) And of course the EIC would be making mad bank all the while. Nobody better placed to supply all the seeds and tools the newly wealthy farmers need.

As far as Roswita is concerned the debt is not a concern, and Mathilde is a sadly cursed patriot.
I am not worried about the contract not being "Iron clad", I want a copy. A document is easily forged, destroyed, misplaced, and forgotten. If I remember correctly, Mathilde forged some documents her self, because she had access to the only surviving copy. I just want copy's made of all the documents, so that we can hide copy's in various places, maybe do some dwarven banking, and leave them there. I have the habit of thinking ahead, if Mathilde die's and leaves a heir, this information will be important. The empire from what I remember has a lot of schemes and political bullshit flying around. And I would feel more secure if said documents, were numerous, in various places. If all copy's are at the guilds headquarters, or in the same safe, its rather pointless. We should have copy's of any and all documentation, trust is irrelevant and a foolish thing to rely on. People change, motivations change and circumstances change. There is a lot we can do as grey-wizards, and there is a lot other grey-wizards do that frankly worry me. Why being a little paranoid in this quest, seems to offend so many people confuses me to no end.
 
In addition/fix to list of possible personal gifts to Journeymanglings above:
Johan actually uses handgun as a personal weapon! We can gift him, like, a dwarf revolver or two. He'd appreciate that, I think.
 
Because its a nice thing to do and we like them???
I'm not even supporting the idea but your dismissiveness about something that would cost very little is confusing.
For another thing, we made 14k gold specifically from Maximilian being willing to personally go out at night, track down the silver tokens and return them to us. Without quietly pocketing half [or maybe he did and that was what was left.]

He deserves a giant bonus for that if nothing else.
 
I don't have the 8th edition Dorf army list, but found this tactics article on Rune combinations. Then, if those costs are accurate, ballparking off some of TNEs theoryrunecrafting:

Most of those combos are apparently less that 100 points (which would roughly be 10 favours on an axe).
E.g. Triple Cleaving 65pts or Snorri + 2x Might (I think?) 75pts
The point being, kickass runic weapons seem to be available well within the Branul Lhune pricerange, even with a 'Manling sword grumble tax'.
None of those come close to the glory of Kragg's personal rune + stuff, tho. That's what we want.

I'm like fourty three pages behind, so what's being floated for a killstick?
 
Honestly, at this point.

We might as well go "15 favor Rune Weapon" and just trust them to whip us up something nice. It worked great for the belt after all.
 
None of those come close to the glory of Kragg's personal rune + stuff, tho. That's what we want.

I'm like fourty three pages behind, so what's being floated for a killstick?
No consensus beyond 15 favors. Either more or less will eat enough pushback that 15 will likely win via approval vote.
General tendency to favor keeping it a sword, but not a defining one. While an ae might come out mechanically superior you'd be pulling teeth to get any training there compared to the lots of research and scouting and politics up tobat

Strong preferences for letting the Runelords do their thing. Just specify a weapon a Ranger would use.
Some popularity for theming it after Karag Lhune.
I am not worried about the contract not being "Iron clad", I want a copy. A document is easily forged, destroyed, misplaced, and forgotten. If I remember correctly, Mathilde forged some documents her self, because she had access to the only surviving copy. I just want copy's made of all the documents, so that we can hide copy's in various places, maybe do some dwarven banking, and leave them there. I have the habit of thinking ahead, if Mathilde die's and leaves a heir, this information will be important. The empire from what I remember has a lot of schemes and political bullshit flying around. And I would feel more secure if said documents, were numerous, in various places. If all copy's are at the guilds headquarters, or in the same safe, its rather pointless. We should have copy's of any and all documentation, trust is irrelevant and a foolish thing to rely on. People change, motivations change and circumstances change. There is a lot we can do as grey-wizards, and there is a lot other grey-wizards do that frankly worry me. Why being a little paranoid in this quest, seems to offend so many people confuses me to no end.
Mathilde has a copy. The EIC has a copy. The Province of Stirland has a copy(unless Wilhelmina took it)
 
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It's worth pointing out that quite a few of the weapon runes do double duty of making you both more killy and more tanky and therefore more survivable. Skimping out on favour for a runic weapon is literally also choosing to have less defensive boost out of whatever we might get and whilst I personally would prefer the sword to be as absolutely killy as possible given more than 10 favour expenditure means we're going to see non-core effects that fit with the theme of what might be possible spending less than 15 would be a really bad idea. I'm personally going to push for 20. I'd push for more but I want the weapon in a timely fashion.
 
[x] This is Dawongr Weber's money. The funds will largely go projects within the Karaz Ankor - your tower for one, but also investing in the Undumgi or Ulrikadrin, or purchasing goods made by Dwarven artisans or sold in the markets of Barak Varr.
[x] Karag Nar temple

[x] Convince Esbern and Seija to stay long enough to deal with the spiders in the Chiselwards.
[x] Claim the site where Ranald mugged Mork and build a shrine to Ranald there.
[x] Write a series of papers on the magical phenomena you witnessed. Or better yet, get your Journeymanlings to do the actual writing.
[x] Convince Esbern and Seija to stay long enough to hatch the supposedly Lustrian eggs and study and possibly train whatever hatches.
 
I feel 15 is a floor I'm comfortable with, but 20 is sufficiently bellow the practical max of 25, and yet close enough, that it's a good point for stopping due diminishing returns.

Like, the Belt was amazing, but especially if we argue for a sword, Kragg or Thorek would be working on it despite it being a sword, so a little "safety margin" can't hurt. A 15-favor sword would not be equivalent to the Belt.

Honestly, it's one or two personal actions for getting the axe up to par. When we are dropping that many favors on it, and given how hard favor is to earn, and once its commissioned there's no changing it, the actions are really a trifling price to pay. There's always more actions, there's always more turns. But favor, especially that's much, is very, very hard to come by, and there's no simply making up for it later, unlike with most actions.

Because guys, think about this; we should only have one truly dangerous action in a non-scouting turn, as we only have one blessing. A good part of why Snake juice and LM never found the room is because we kept running into things that absolutely needed the Blessing.

But training is the sort of harmless action that's good to take on a turn with a critical research or vital op.

@BoneyM would the dwarves wave the favor for training if we were to say it's for swapping from sword to axe? Especially if it were to use this shiny new runed axe?
 
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It's worth pointing out that quite a few of the weapon runes do double duty of making you both more killy and more tanky and therefore more survivable. Skimping out on favour for a runic weapon is literally also choosing to have less defensive boost out of whatever we might get and whilst I personally would prefer the sword to be as absolutely killy as possible given more than 10 favour expenditure means we're going to see non-core effects that fit with the theme of what might be possible spending less than 15 would be a really bad idea. I'm personally going to push for 20. I'd push for more but I want the weapon in a timely fashion.
Unfortunately that particular argument isn't likely to work much, however its repeated. The runeweapon debate thus far has basically the following factions:
-Most powerful weapon, period - Wants to commit several actions to training up Axe, then commissioning the most bullshit runic axe in the world with the the maximum practical favor count. Some probably not expected to be followed through ideas of finding some Gromril to use for it. Expected 15-25 favor range preference, with variable action commitment to raise matching axe skill.
--Some of the more blue sky ideas include combo weapons, but there's been relatively cross-faction appeal.:p

-Good equipment given time and resource pressures - Wants a minimum of 15 favor, no maximum. Wants a small number of actions invested to getting more killy with a weapon, ranging from "we're good" to "lets get the 1/3 complete Greatsword trait before calling it a day". Would definitely be opposed to training up another weapon type.
--Self identifying as part of this blob.

-Symbolism - Would prefer the oddly specific 12 favors scored in Karag Lhune for symbolism, but finds 15 acceptable, and higher unimportant. Wants a sword for the symbolisms. Could talk them into higher Favor expenditures if you could come up with a good proposal.

-Bank of Favors - Would prefer to keep a lot of Favors open for other things. Prefers 10 Favors, would grudgingly accept 15 Favors to avoid spending higher. Unlikely to be swayed by any amount of talk on weapon, unless its provable that you don't need to keep THAT many favors open.

-Wizard Not Fighter - Would prefer not to buy any melee weapon at all, due to fear of incentive to do more meleeing instead of advisoring/civ building. Would likely support the lowest Favor amount which is practical to expect to win. Unlikely to be swayed at all, more likely to dig in.
--Subset prefers to try to get a super gun or crossbow with favors instead.

You're doing a fine job of convincing those who already agree with you but the arguments won't really sway the deciding votes by my read.
 
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Because guys, think about this; we should only have one truly dangerous action in a non-scouting turn, as we only have one blessing. A good part of why Snake juice and LM never found the room is because we kept running into things that absolutely needed the Blessing

We have two Blessings now and frankly there's always going to be better stuff to do than turning Mathilde into an all round weapon master.

There's being better at magic since she is primarily a wizard, being better at spymaster stuff since Mathilde is a Grey Wizard, there's non-critical but still important research, stewardship or diplomacy actions we might want to undertake, there's whatever other stuff can come up.

Changing weapons to an axe is a very suboptimal usage of Mathilde's time since she very much shouldn't be a frontline murderbeast first, everything else later.
 
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