Blackout
Fed By Comments
- Location
- Who knows?
That doesn't really make sense when elven mythology already tells us the dwelling place of the gods: at the very highest peaks of the Annulii Mountains, where no elf has ever gone and returned back.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Of the three known myths of the Coming of Chaos (The Asur tale told by Markus Fischer, 'Lord Ulric and the Making of the World', and the Obernarn stone) I actually think that the Obernarn stone is most likely to have some deeper truths in it. The Markus Fischer tale is explicitly an Asur myth, Lord Ulric is very obviously a human myth (it includes just the Gods in the Northern and Southern pantheons), but the Obernarn stone includes such a bizzare blend of Gods that it seems like it must have something to it - like, if it's a lie it's really unclear who the liar was and why they lied as they did.
That said, the Obernarn Stone mentions "Just Verena" as one of those present at the very final battle against Chaos, and both of the other myths agree that Hoeth/Verena picked up the sword by that point, so Verena being mentioned in that context still fits with Hoeth/Verena gaining a new domain during the Coming of Chaos. Plus the Obernarn Stone is apparently translated, so there's always the possibility that Verena is misidentified.
The wiki says that Asuryan forbids "direct contact" and the source is indeed 8th edition, I'm not sure if what Hoeth did applies or not but it seems like it could fit.
Article: Whilst direct contact between the Elven gods and their mortal children has long been forbidden by Asuryan, Isha sometimes pleads with her daughter Lileath, the goddess of the moon, dreams and fortune, to send divine tidings and portents through dreams and nightmares, so that the Elves might not confront the perils of the world without some measure of divine warning and guidance. Only when the Creator's attention is elsewhere does Isha dare intervene personally, spreading her magics across Ulthuan to shrivel the Daemons and evildoers that threaten her children.
IIRC, that's a reimport from 40k, where Asuryan forbid the gods from interacting with the Eldar and that was one big reason they ended up fucking Slaanesh into existence.
Verena is a creature of the warp, there is no reason why she or any other god would be attached to the Old World and even if she were one would still have to prove that she would reveal herself more to the humans that live in that place. Also that name can be used for the planet as well as the continent, seeing as canon is not even firm on that detail it seems an even more fragile thing to hang a theory on.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Except for that one guy in 8th edition, but he aged a couple millennia and never cast any other magic when he came back down.
- Location
- Who knows?
So uh some post or another lead me into delving some Deep Htread Lore and wow more prophets here...
Seems less happiness and more potential existential dread (at a human being better at recovering lost karaks) plus grumbling and headaches (from maaayybbeee them posing the question to Ranald. Who. Yeah)
Seems less happiness and more potential existential dread (at a human being better at recovering lost karaks) plus grumbling and headaches (from maaayybbeee them posing the question to Ranald. Who. Yeah)
The really early Ergrimm VS Mathilde Total Warhammer Dlc makes are also funny in hindsight
Yes, the Albion campaign book, the main source on the region, tells us that the Old Ones taught their elven, dwarven, and human pupils there.
I think there's mention that these stones are pictographs; so the fact that the translator has chosen to pick the name of a particular god probably doesn't matter.
They saw a pictograph that looked vaguely like a snake if you squinted and because the only snake god they'd ever read about was called Sotek they used that name, etc.
As it's not a syllabary, the written symbol of a proper noun gives basically no information about the actual name of the entity referred to.
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Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
The actual issue is that we are a Dawi Loremaster who is a friend of Belegar and de facto leader of the project deeply important to Thorgrim, which means that imprisoning us has a non-zero chance of triggering War of the Ancients 2: Plaitling edition. If nothing else, Dawi will definitely send a demand to release us.
I searched for any mention of the Obernan stone being pictographs, and most results are from this thread. I actually found a post by you making the same claim (you gave Tome of Salvation as a reference, so if you or someone else has a pdf of it you can check it for any mention of the Obernarn stone) but Boney made the reply that the composition of Gods given makes the stone still very puzzling even if you assume translation errors:
On the other hand, doing that to someone who was declared to be a Dwarf is the best way to restart the War of Vengeance I can think of.
I mean the elves could always say something like Mathilde died in a Druuchi raid or other bullshit. At the end of the day we'be in Ulthuan in the, probably, most loyal Kingdom to the Phoenix Crown. I'm sure they'd have a lot of ways to deal with us.
Which might well deter the Phoenix King, it would not deter the Shadow Warriors if he gives the order.
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
That sounds sus as fuck though, unless Ulthuan can present evidence sufficient to sway people who plain don't trust them, they would be courting disaster.
As Boney already said, they could just dispatch Teclis as a concession, and that would be sufficient for colleges to withdraw, which would kill the project.
From Boney's quote they are a lot of characters confounding variables such as the date of translation, or who they may have been collaborating with, or even if it was translated all at once.
For example, if they had access to elven scholarship, who themselves had access to Lustria, it would explain a lot. Or even translated by an elf who used local names for the Imperial gods, as they don't think the name under which you worship a god matters.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Assuming Finubar has the ability to send Teclis anywhere is not something I would count on.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
So regarding that library roll.
Short term, we should browse through the Elementalist's collection to see if they've got any info relevant to Waystones or Apparition Binding.
Medium term, we should slowly digest their whole catalog and maybe spend an action at some point passing on any relevant insights regarding Bok to Kragg.
Long term, we could try to incorporate our various insights into the nature of magic from studying the Elementalists notes, repeated exposure to divine magic, contact with the various polities of the Waystone project, plus our many and varied dark magic sources, and try to compile them into a cohesive theory of magic that might get closer to (or dare I say, surpass in some areas) Ulthuan's understanding of the subject.
As for Verena... we probably wanna take things slowly and carefully at this point to try to improve their opinion of us, or at least make sure that their bad opinion of us doesn't spread too much into the wider cult, since having a
grudge aimed at us from the cult of knowledge is going to make running a library much harder.
Short term, we should browse through the Elementalist's collection to see if they've got any info relevant to Waystones or Apparition Binding.
Medium term, we should slowly digest their whole catalog and maybe spend an action at some point passing on any relevant insights regarding Bok to Kragg.
Long term, we could try to incorporate our various insights into the nature of magic from studying the Elementalists notes, repeated exposure to divine magic, contact with the various polities of the Waystone project, plus our many and varied dark magic sources, and try to compile them into a cohesive theory of magic that might get closer to (or dare I say, surpass in some areas) Ulthuan's understanding of the subject.
As for Verena... we probably wanna take things slowly and carefully at this point to try to improve their opinion of us, or at least make sure that their bad opinion of us doesn't spread too much into the wider cult, since having a
grudge aimed at us from the cult of knowledge is going to make running a library much harder.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Wasn't it Teclis?
IIRC, we know helped translate some Belthani stones, but we don't know if he did with this one or not.
Of course, if he translated some, later scholars may have reused the translated symbols he did use, and then speculated about novel ones.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I was surprised to hear about the elves having water elementals cleaning the canals in their Marienburg enclave. Elven magic being able to do elementalism stuff is exciting.
It's not going to happen, I know it's not going to happen, Boney's been very clear every time anything that remotely smells like Mathilde being able to use another lore of magic has come up that it will never ever happen...
...but there's at least something approaching compatibility with the elven model implied, there.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
We do have the Avatar trait...
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think people are overestimating how much Ulthuan could possibly know about the Waystone Project right now, and how cautious they may wish to be. Elven politics are matters of triple meanings and playing the long game, and it could take any authorities a good chunk of time to determine just how involved the Empire is, given that it is hosted in Laurelorn (a polity that they would clearly prefer to be on their side than on the Druchii's) and has one really darn experienced Elven archmage as one of its most important members.
If I was an Asur and I heard about the Waystone project, I wouldn't discount the possibility that the three Elven members are the power behind the scenes, even if I had heard that the one theoretically in charge is a dashingly charming and intelligent single-Wind Human.
Nagarythe also has invited as guests in their most esteemed pastime. I imagine this would color their judgement of us.
Overall, to me this does not paint the picture that someone's gonna tell the Shadow Warriors 'hey make sure she has an accident on her way home'.
If I was an Asur and I heard about the Waystone project, I wouldn't discount the possibility that the three Elven members are the power behind the scenes, even if I had heard that the one theoretically in charge is a dashingly charming and intelligent single-Wind Human.
Nagarythe also has invited as guests in their most esteemed pastime. I imagine this would color their judgement of us.
Overall, to me this does not paint the picture that someone's gonna tell the Shadow Warriors 'hey make sure she has an accident on her way home'.
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- Location
- California
And can we trust anything that man says? He could have been blinded by his desperate need for cigarettes and milk.
Voikirium
SV's Estalia Guy
- Location
- Ruritania Illinois
- Pronouns
- He/Him
>Could have been an interesting examination on the amorality of knowledge by virtue of implying Druchii Sorceresses were learning there
>Could be an exposition on the dangers of knowledge without wisdom by having somebody go full Phrenology
>"Nah they just had an attack of the Dawi"
Can I wake up from nightmare world soon
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
It's not like the High Elves aren't a traditionalist culture on the whole.
I'm pretty sure the Dwarfs have seen more invention than the HE over the last couple thousand years. Basically every single HE unit has been in active unchanged service for millennia.