I've been having some ideas and theories about Ulthuan and the Druchii and Malekith.
The gist of it, since my posts tend to get long and rambly, is this:
What if Malekith is 100% perfectly willing to sacrifice the Druchii culture after he beats Ulthuan?
and
Ulthuan, the Asur, are good at being a functioning society, being good people, and defending themselves; Naggaroth and the Druchii are good at raising people who are willing to forever make war on and harass Ulthuan. One is a more effective strategy for winning, or at least prosecuting a long term campaign or set of campaigns, than the other.
What if he's not, as the Joker said, just a dog chasing cars and wouldn't know what to do if he even caught it; what if he's totally aware that the Druchii aren't a stable society without external enemies to aim themselves at, and that winning over Ulthuan would only give him a moderate amount of flex time of raiding and oppressing and warring on Lustria and the Old World before he had to inevitably cull a bunch of rivals. And is simply perfectly willing to take up the Herculean task of reforging Elf society for a second time, after he wins.
People, both in-universe and out-of-universe, have, I presume, gotten the idea that "... Well at least if he wins, he will probably choke on his victory." The Asur perhaps grimly console themselves that, should the worst comes to worst, at least Malekith would not reign for long. Possibly because some ambitious or Chaos-worshipping madman would meddle with the Vortex, or try to use the Vortex to become a god or other hubristic act, or because the trio of Morathi, Hellebron, and Malekith will get into a final Recolver Ocelot backstab-off after Ulthuan is finished; but more likely, they envision that the Druchii simply cannot live as they are if they win big enough.
It's possible that some last minute heroics or villainy will destroy Malekith or Malekith's victory. But even let's say that we avoid that scenario, let's say we are fully in "We won. Now what?" territory; people probably believe that Malekith's society might very well collapse.
Me, I am not so sure.
And the reason for that is that, well... Well, okay, so... let's talk about accumulation of power and age and seeking-to-win and stuff. People have pointed out and shared stories before, of the likes of "Well, a human feels an urge to gain power, he feels Morr's breath on the back of his neck; a Vampire can fall into a rut and not do anything risky for decades or centuries." You know, the old story of a Vampire being defeated or almost defeated by his human apprentice, who became shockingly powerful in a short amount of time, while the Vampire had had centuries to hone his power.
So. Well. That's not the only way to gain power. It's not just about being willing to take more risks. Though that could be a factor of course. There's another mindset that is very conducive to gaining power, and that is... the mindset of playing to win. Of having a goal in mind and taking steps to achieve that goal. Having self-awareness. Knowing what you want, how to get it, and what to do after.
Malekith was a hero in ancient Ulthuan. He amassed power and prestige and influence and followers. He got a lot of people to follow him and back. And then when his big play failed and he was burnt near to death? He took the Pantheonic Mandala and threw out the Highest of Holies and replaced it with a god more aligned with his goals and methods.
This is a man who, rejected and denied by Asuryan, decided to go with another god if that's what it took. His followers and allies, people who probably would have had at least some predilection to being willing to change and be not-great-Ulthuani-types, followed him and became the Druchii; and their descendants are nothing like Ulthuan at all.
If he's willing to throw out his main god, and go with the devil of the battlefield, what else is he willing to do? If he's willing to not give up and lie down and die after being judged and damned by the highest of holies of his culture, then what else is he willing to do and endure and weather?
So, that's his willpower and dedication. Let's talk about tactics and strategies. Let's talk about Druchii and Asur values, and motivations.
The Asur have values and morality and shinyness and stuff. They're good guys. They're not without flaw, not without sin, of course. But you can put them in the stereotypical "good" pile, in terms of nations, yeah?
Having strong moral values leads to things such as "being willing to happily live on your Elf-island and trouble nobody," and "being willing to die to defend your home" and "fight fiercely and forever -- if perhaps overly defensively -- against the Druchii." What I'm getting at is that there's a strong element of "Don't fuck with me or my stuff" on Ulthuan. The Nagarytheans might have them and do stuff like "pin a guy between 2 trees and let the growth of the trees sloooowly split him asunder" but, like... well. While I am making assumptions on the following statement, I don wonder if it is indeed a true statement; I wonder if stuff like that is more like a good person's idea of evil? That is... a good, or normal person, if you asked them about dealing evil unto a hated enemy, they'd probably think torture or violence right? Or betrayal or going after families or something, but. Well. Look. I think -- or rather, I wonder if it is the case, because we haven't really gotten much of a look at Ulthuan and Nagarythe -- if Nagarytheans are like what happens if you add hatred and grudges to a normal person rather than evil exactly; the result is violence and infliction of pain, but not "inventively fucked-up stuff."
Having values such as ambition and not caring if Klar Karwhatever guys die because you're from Klar CawCawMotherfuckers and those other guys are our enemies and on our rightful land, and also they are rich and fat and good to raid, results in the following;
being willing to plan creatively about how to beat your enemy, because you want to take your stuff.
Not being discouraged by stories of how all those other guys got horribly murdered by Shadow Warriors, because you only care about your guys. ... Thereby resulting in a steady stream of willing reinforcements for the eternal war.
Ulthuan motivates its people via "Defend your loved ones and your way of life! Because those guys will cruelly take it from you!"
Naggaroth motivates via "Go over there and take his stuff."
I think Ulthuan, the Asur, are better at "raising a person who wouldn't be a bastard."
While Naggaroth is better at "raise somebody who is willing to continually harass Ulthuan."
Asur grieve over every one of their people that die. Maybe not personally. Maybe not super strongly. But at least on the level of "Our thoughts and prayers go out to the deaths in this other part of our country, in this trying time."
The Druchii only care if somebody from their Black Ark or city-state dies.
The Asur fight back against the Druchii. They probably do not just fight solely defensively. There was a time or two when they broke the Druchii so thoroughly it took them like a thousand years to recover, yeah? Buuut... I'm willing to get that for the Asur, the whole conflict and war has the sort of take of "Beat those guys down and make them stay down." That is, it's sort of like planning to win a battle or a war by killing all of the other side's guys, yeah? It's not the best strategy; "Kill the enemy until there is no more enemy" is... well, it's serviceable. But not the best way to fight a battle or a war.
The Druchii, as I said, are more primed towards inventive trickery and cruelty and plotting and stuff. They spy and plot and connive. They infiltrate Ulthuan and do not merely spy and snatch information; they also probably fabricate scandals and gnaw at the pillars of Ulthuani society.
When you are an honorable person and an honorable society, that means when people in your society act dishonorably, it saddens you and it prompts reaction. That means that when you see ancient organizations grow fat and corrupt, or you see brands of stores or companies becoming sell-outs or bad or something, you are upset and hurt by it. And when some of those organizations can be thousands of years old? That's not something you can rebuild or replace so easily.
Do the Asur target the Druchii's symbols and pillars of society so effectively? Do the Asur undermine Druchii society? Can Asur even undermine Druchii the way Druchii undermine them; or are the Asur stuck with a "this is like cutting heads off a hydra" frustrating situation, because the very thing that makes Druchii willing to turn on other city-states also means they don't care if other city-states' brands and pillars rot? ... And because if the Asur try to go after the universal, cross-city-state, symbols of power and authority -- Malekith's symbols of authority; the social things he uses to prod and maneuver the Druchii and lord over them -- then Malekith knows to come down like a ton of bricks, and quickly repair or avoid any loss of prestige? Because it's easier to maintain a rule by fear, then a rule by virtue?
... It might be more effective to try to make Malekith be slowly become hated by Druchii, buuut... that might be the sort of social engineering that might be hard to achieve.
Also, living in Naggaroth might be tough to weather for Asur infiltrators; whereas moonlighting as an Asur socialite or wizard or artisan or bureaucrat or something, might be more amenable for Druchii. The Ulthuani might be a softer target, socially.
Though it's also possible that the Ulthuani simply don't have the mindset for stuff like "How to prompt revolutions or engineer regime changes" because, well, like I said: one society is good for making people who're virtuous or at least normal and willing to defend their homeland, while another society is good at making people willing to raid the world and Ulthuan specifically. And Nagarythe Shadow Warriors might be willing to commit hyper-violence on Druchii, and would love to kill a million Druchii, they probably don't grow up practicing plotting or subterfurge or instilling ambition or etc. They might hate the Druchii and be willing to do anything, or anything within reason, to them... but coming up with personal tortures or ultra-violence isn't the most effective way to wage war or overturn a society.
((Sidenote: I wonder if there might be something the Asur or the Nagarytheans might learn from whatsisname Mister "Left Naggaroth Worse Than He Found it"? Walther Kupfer, the Hedgewise guy.))
((Heck. There might be things the Ulthuani can learn from humans. That is, the way humans, and Chaos cultists, subvert and infiltrate and destroy societies and people and such. If the Asur were willing to admit that humans might have anything they wish to learn. Or if they were in the mindset of being able to look at things the humans did, and, while realizing it would not be directly translateable of course, would still serve as the basis of lessons; of subversion and social upheaval, and defenses against such.))
((But the idea of getting Walther and Daroir to meet up and talk shop... that could be neat, I feel. If they were able to talk productively and strategically. ... And also I guess I am assuming that Walther's lessons would be applicable. And also also I guess I am assuming that this has not already been done; for all we know, the Nagarytheans loved it when they heard about slave revolts in Naggaroth, and so went and talked to the guy who did it when they could. Ah well.))
Anyway. I started this off by wondering about how deliberate and useful the culture of Naggaroth was to Malekith, and about how what he did and how he shaped the Druchii, was all to a point and to a reason... and furthermore, that anybody who thinks the Druchii would collapse if they won, might be overlooking the fact that if Malekith was willing and capable of forging the Druchii in the first place, then he might be willing to reforge them if needs be.
Though, it has been a long time. He has been the Witch-King for longer than he had been Ulthuan's big damn hero and travelling ambassador and hero-prince. He might have become quite set in his way, or blind to some things, or maybe there's just much more social inertia to deal with in Naggaroth compared to when he had his followers and camps of people in the first civil war.
I dunno about that for sure though.
But, well, anyway. It might be an interesting argument to turn on the Druchii; the idea they only exist in so far as Malekith allows it. And that they will end if he requires it.
What is a slave? What is a rival or a competitor? A competitor is somebody you might compete with, might be in the same league, or somebody out of your league, but even if they're out of your league at least it's maybe theoretically possible to catch up or dethrone them or something. A slave though? A slave is somebody held in chains. A slave is somebody you use. A slave... is somebody who is used by somebody else with ill intent for that slave.
((A feudal lord might 'use' a man-at-arms or a peasant, but it is not intended to be with ill intent; he is, in the end, supposed to have the peasant's or knight's well-being in mind, because they're all part of the same group. A slavemaster is somebody who uses a slave with no real care for their lives, save for how much they can get out of them.))
((IIRC in the Darkblade trilogy, I think it was said that... was it Vaulkhar or Drachau that are considered the personal slaves of Malekith? Anyway, I find it amusingly on the nose that Malekith would call the most powerful appointed leaders or appointed generals, those chosen by him, as his slaves. "You can't kill these men because they are useful to my war effort to the war eternal. They are essentially my people or property. If you kill them, you make an offense against me." Slaves, heh, very on the nose, if my approach of "What is a slave? Okay now that you've answered that... tell me. Who are the slaves here ultimately, exactly?" is accurate.))
Not just use like how anybody and anything is a tool and a way for you to get power, even other rivals. No. A slave is somebody who you keep in darkness and keep weak or deluded and unwilling or unable to fight back or conceive of such.
And what does Malekith do? He cultivates a culture that is extremely willing to fight against Ulthuan, by splitting them up into tribalistic city-states that do not suffer morale penalties if another city-state suffers. And this also encourages a crab bucket mentality too; every city-state competes against every other city-state... ... and if anybody gets too big or successful? Or if a too big coalition forms? Why then, I'd bet that that's why Malekith keeps a big reserve of power for; for stomping down on any actual social threats before they can become threats.
Somebody could make the argument of: "What would happen if Malekith won? I mean, say he wins Ulthuan. How do you think people in the Old World might react?"
"Do you think Malekith might threaten to pull the plug on the whole world if he doesn't get what he wants?"
"Let's say that the answer to that is probably not. The world is where he keeps his stuff! He might be more tasteful and deadpan with his threats; 'if it ever looks like you might tear Ulthuan away from me, then I threaten the Vortex.'"
"... But. Might the people of the Old World be convinced THAT Malekith is a Supervillain?"
"Alternatively; what if some supervillains on the Old World get into spots of power?"
"What if somebody on the Old World threatens Malekith's Ulthuan Vortex? From the Old World side of that?"
"What if Chaos tempts the despairing or uncertain or gullible people of the Old World, with a way to strike at Malekith. Or frightens them into thinking Malekith might be a supervillain; or that some Druchii subordinate, or Hellebron or Morathi, might be a supervillain."
"What then, then?"
"Would Malekith have to moderate himself and his society, in order to be capable of dealing with a world that could hold a knife to his throat if they were willing to damn themselves to do it?"
"And so, that might be the reason for Malekith to be motivated to reforge and reform and reshape Druchii society for the second time again; partly because the Druchii would not have a great big rival to contend against, partly because the Druchii might be too backstabby to be stable on Ulthuan... but also partly because Malekith would need to avoid having some panicky or despairing Old Worlder (or Ulthuani remnant) from pulling the plug on the Waystones."
So, well, the argument might be two-fold here. Both that Malekith -- or the Druchii as a whole -- might not be trusted as a custodian of the Vortex. And also that the Old World, which is mostly humans, might be gullible or panicky enough that maybe the Chaos Gods might have a bit of success here and there. And that Malekith might have motivations to reforge the Druchii again. If not to quiet the Old World, then because he'd need to tamp down on the tribalistic and backstabby nature of the Druchii. Or else he'd have to constantly find scraps to feed the Druchii, which there might be enough scraps for centuries, but who knows.
Anyway. There's also a theological implications argument for Malekith being more ambitious than he is loyal or attached to his people.
Namely that, why would there be some debate or "Ahahaha shut up of course Malekith is the Chosen of Khaine. Yes. Obviously."? Why would there be possible rivals or claimants to Khaine's favor, like Malus Darkblade or Tullaris?
Well... maybe because, as I theorized, Malekith was willing to throw Asuryan under the bus and to survive Asuryan's displeasure. So maybe Malekith is willing to part ways with Khaine, if that is what it took to accomplish his ambitions and goals.
And that might be why Khaine does not fully and completely favor Malekith; because while Malekith might have delivered the biggest scoop to Khaine by forming an entire society that worships Khaine? Ultimately, Malekith is looking out for Malekith (and maybe Morathi); not for Khaine. Khaine favors Malekith because of what he's done for him, and what he is willing to keep on doing.
But Khaine and Malekith might not have the same values or strategic goals. Khaine wants murder and war. Malekith wants what he was denied, what he feels is his birthright, and to crush his enemies and hear them lament, and to rule the world. Khaine might be just a means to an end for Malekith. Maybe for millenia. But maybe not forever.
Though, if the theory brought up by Mayto about Khaine becoming intertwined with all the Elf peoples because Aenarion was the Champion of Asuryan and the King of Ulthuan and married the spiritual leader of the Asur, when he took up the Widowmaker and thus intertwined Elves with Khaine, is a viable theory... then maybe the High Elves -- and other Elves -- might be in a bit of trouble long-term anyway. A man who mantled or avatar'd both Asuryan and Khaine married the avatar of Isha; of Elvish fertility and child-rearing and stuff. That might have effects or implications on elvish fertility.
... Though amusingly, it's possible that it's not just Khaine worship that could have effects on fertility. It could be all 3 of those involved. Asuryan, Khaine, and Isha. Which means that the Ulthuani trying to live their lives by Asuryan and preferring to die nobly than to live ignobly aren't just totally screwing themselves over. Sure, they aren't worshipping Khaine much... ... But the Druchii aren't worshipping Asuryan much, are they?
So why the possible differences in fertility? Well, maybe because of my afore-mentioned theories on how Ulthuan raises people more suited for being good people or being all "don't tread on me", while Naggaroth raises people willing to live fast and die young. Druchii might die of backstabbing or war more often, but if they're just happier or less stressed about their lifestyle? If they feel no guilt over their raiding and warring? If they feel energized when they win one over their foes? While the Ulthuani try not to feel too happy if they kill a Druchii because ultimately being happy at somebody else dying isn't a great mindset? Well, if the Ulthuan raise people who do feel guilt or demoralization whenever their fellow Asur on the other side of their island-continent dies as opposed to the Druchii laughing at the Shades/Klar Karond/Karond Kar dudes wiping out in a raid... well. Yeah.
((Also, an interesting thought on why the Ulthuani might take a "war and death-dealing might be a necessary evil, but still an evil" approach to things, even if it might be more 'effective' not to. Possible reason why? Well... ... maybe because orthodoxy of thought really is quite important to elves? Namely that... what if the reason Ulthuani are quite stuffy and "This has to be done in a proper way" and "You have to raise a person in a proper and correct way; and this way is the proper and correct way" is because... to contrast with the Dwarf's more physically centered side of things... what if the Elves are more mentally (or spiritually) centered? That is to say; what if while Dwarf culture is passed on and inherited with purpose, to repeat the phrase, with Elves it's more like... programming I guess? Or not programming, but... An element of "you can only trust somebody who thinks like you, or close enough like you"? And otherwise, you can't get too truly close to somebody; you can be allies of convenience, you can be friends when times are easy or when times are rich... ... but the thing that, for them, forms a deep friendship? Isn't "spend time or emotionally bond" or "pack-bond strongly" but rather "come to adopt the beliefs or the other, or have them adopt your beliefs and ways of thinking."
Hence, orthodoxy of thought is important because it is key to maintaining societal faith in people and institutions and such.
Or, alternatively, orthodoxy of thought is important because... Well. Much like Dwarfs might have a physical equivalent of "The Ancestors Gave Us The Best Practices, So This Is How We Ought To Do Things" -- by physical I mean stuff like mining and engineering and crafting -- then maybe Elves have a mental equivalent of that.
Maybe Elves have a very strong form of: "You are what you pretend to be. So be careful what you pretend to be."
... I mean. We do get told that Elves worship or regard the Gods as, well, part of their mind or part of their actions. A very "to worship the god, become the god or act as the god" or the like. We also know that if you fuck up your spells you can get Arcane Marks, and that Elves are good at not fucking up spells. Or good at being patient and learning spells to get it right the first time, and never fuck up.
So if you are the thoughts you hold in your head... then maybe pretending or acting or thinking like a bad person 'temporarily' or not-so-temporarily, might have consequences or results for you.
Maybe "We'd rather die nobly, than live ignobly" isn't just a noble sentiment; maybe it's also a recognition of one's limits. An important limiting principle for your self and your society. Of knowing that if you played with the devil's tools you will come, by degrees, to wield his sword.
"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will."
Maybe that's why Nagarytheans are both worrying to other elves, but also come off as more like "a good person being hyper-violent or disturbingly violent; a good person's idea of doing evil, rather than what an evil person or a sociopath or psychopath would be actually like" rather than "full-on willing to do evil unto evil." Again, this speculation on how low Nagarytheans aren't willing to go against Druchii, is indeed just speculation. For all I know, maybe the Asur do wage war against the Druchii as effectively as they can, including societal and PR war. And maybe the only things they aren't willing to do, are things that fuck up or over-weaponize their society, or outright use Dhar or Chaos bullshit. I dunno.))
And now that I've had thought provoking an theoretical discussions and stuff, I'll leave off with a wacky conspiracy theory instead;
What if Malekith... just up and died in the fires, what if he never made it out at all? What if, Morathi didn't revive Malekith and Darth Vader him; what if she just created or bound a shade, maybe his shade, or spirit or something?
What if the Witch-King is just a revenant, or some construct, or some altered living Druchii or something? What if that is the reason how, and why, Morathi and Malekith can have occasional fights over influence of Naggaroth without it actually boiling over too much; because it's all actually just a puppet play by Morathi. Because she knows that if she makes it look like there are 2, or 3, points of power in society, people are less effective in how they scheme to overthrow. (And the blacksmith who stole Vaul's hammer was killed off. One of the few power rivals and ancients that managed to get killed. Unlike Hellebron, eh.)
These books have titles on their spines and they're written vertically rather than horizontally, and top-to-bottom. This is how it's done in the modern UK, though from my understanding, in the earliest days spines had no titles, then they were written horizontally, and now they're vertical but written bottom-to-top in continental Europe, where Germany is. It's always nice to see these little ways that Warhammer's fantastical setting differs from the real world.
