- Location
- Greece
Fair enough. Guess that's what makes them major.
...Apart from Manaan, what's up with him?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Fair enough. Guess that's what makes them major.
...Apart from Manaan, what's up with him?
An awful lot of the Imperial population hugs the rivers, and a lot of Tilean and Estalian population the coasts. The favour of the god of seas and rivers is very important to them as a result, as an awful lot of life is dependent on passage along the rivers and coast.
Inland on the Bretonnian plains it's probably a bit different, in those mostly self-sufficient villages huddled around Knights' castles he may be a minor part of the pantheon, but they also have a very long coastline and a couple of major rivers where he'd be worshipped strongly.
I think one of the Bretonnian Dukes is capital B Blessed by both Mannan and the Lady, and they both have adjacent domains, Mannan essentially being the god of moving water and the Lady of still waters.
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- Location
- Oklahoma
Everyone who lives on the coast or generally has anything to do with the sea, which is a lot of people.
Reminder that nearly every major population center in the world is either on the coast or on a river.
- Location
- Greece
Didn't realize he was in charge of rivers too. Makes sense.
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Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
He's not the God of Sailors, Pirates, Fishermen or whatever, he's God of the Seas, meaning, all of them and then some. Maybe less important than, I dunno, Poseidon was for Ancient Greeks, but everyone living on the coasts has cause to worship him, and that's a lot of people in pre-Industrial era.
Even then, he's probably more prominently worshipped in Estalia and Tilea.
Even then, he's probably more prominently worshipped in Estalia and Tilea.
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If youre coastal, hes your primary, secondary and maybe even tertiary concern and youre not letting some fancypants from further inland tell you to swap your god of not dying daily for some fancy lad with a hammer.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
When did that happened?
The children of Ellinill.
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
That's exactly the case with Lothern, only swapping Manaan with Mathlann and Sigmar with Asuryan.
Note that some priests of Taal contend with Manaan, claiming that Taal is the source of rivers.
One clarification, rivers are in Manaan's domain up to where they aren't affected by the tides, but given the enormous size of the Old World's rivers that goes a long way upstream - I think I've seen a reference to the tides all the way up to Nuln.
One clarification, rivers are in Manaan's domain up to where they aren't affected by the tides, but given the enormous size of the Old World's rivers that goes a long way upstream - I think I've seen a reference to the tides all the way up to Nuln.
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Given how close basically everyone on Ultuhan is to the ocean I'm surprised that Mathlann isn't the most common Asur god. If you believe he has power over the ocean, then the people who live on an island that barely floating on that ocean might want to give him a lot of respect.
On this subject, an interesting god that the elves of Laurelorn apparently worship is Torothal, a goddess of rain, (temperate?) rainforests, and rivers. According to the wiki, she's not only referenced in Tome of Salvation, but also in the RPG book Shadows over Bögenhafen and an ancient White Dwarf.
The reason I think it's interesting is that it suggests that Laurelorn might be a temperate rainforest, and the suggestion that the group of concepts that the elves associate together. I wonder what emotional state she embodies.
The reason I think it's interesting is that it suggests that Laurelorn might be a temperate rainforest, and the suggestion that the group of concepts that the elves associate together. I wonder what emotional state she embodies.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ulthuan sees Asuryan as the protector. When people worship Mathlann in Ulthuan, it's when they dedicate themselves as seamen and sailors who spend their time at sea or who entirely rely on it. That's why only Cothique and Eataine are said to worship Mathlann to a signfiicant degree, the rest of Ulthuan holding a certain degree of disdain because Mathlann is Cytharai and pretty brutal.
Elves generally pray to gods less as a method of appeasement and desiring protection or blessings and more as a method of becoming like a specific god. If you're not spending your time at sea, then you're not aligning yourself with Mathlann.
I have a theory that Ranald might be Loec's son. A lot of the details are a bit foggy and it is all very speculative, but the idea goes something like this: Ranald is missing some of Loec's aspects (theater and dance and all that) and has some aspects that Loec does not (luck, which is a very central aspect to Ranald and is entirely absent in Loec), so even discounting the fact that they have different attitudes towards violence and are worshipped by entirely different groups I don't think they are the same God. But they do share the whole trickster thing, and Deathfang recognized Ranald's energies as Loec's. So what gives?
Humanity does seem to have at least some Gods that aren't elf Gods. Rhya isn't an elf God according to Deathfang, and the Cult of Karnos investigation seems to indicate that Taal isn't Kurnous, since Mathilde thinks that either Kurnous is going incognito in Taal's backyard of Taal is posing as Kurnous to squeeze out the competition, and neither option makes any sense if they are one and the same. And there is also Ulric, which may be of the Ellinilli but definitely isn't one of the surviving Ellinilli the elves currently worship, so he's not quite an elven God even if he originated from one. I think there might have been some point where some Gods saw this new civilization with their new Gods and figured 'hey that's free real estate'. As humanity was moving away from living in tribes to having a civilization in which a God of Crime might have a place Loec got in before a God could naturally arise, and by splitting off a God from his aspects of stealth and trickery he made Ranald. I think Isha did something similar with Shallya, where she split off a Goddess from most of her aspects except for the whole nature thing since Rhya already existed in the human pantheon. As time went on Ranald got his new luck aspect and diverged from his parent in other ways, but that was his origin. So Deathfang recognized Ranald as Loec for the same reason Hedgewise magical energies felt familiar to Mathilde - because Godly energies of children Gods resemble that of their parents.
There is another piece of evidence tying Ranald to Loec: the story of Kislev's pantheon, which seems to fit very well with the story of the Ellinilli. But this might not be as big a problem for this theory as it may seem at first glance. If Ranald was split of from Loec there is a sense in which Ranald was Loec before he was 'born'. Looking at it that way, it makes sense to attribute the actions of Loec to Ranald if those actions took place before Ranald was created, and likewise with attributing the actions of Isha to Shallya.
Humanity does seem to have at least some Gods that aren't elf Gods. Rhya isn't an elf God according to Deathfang, and the Cult of Karnos investigation seems to indicate that Taal isn't Kurnous, since Mathilde thinks that either Kurnous is going incognito in Taal's backyard of Taal is posing as Kurnous to squeeze out the competition, and neither option makes any sense if they are one and the same. And there is also Ulric, which may be of the Ellinilli but definitely isn't one of the surviving Ellinilli the elves currently worship, so he's not quite an elven God even if he originated from one. I think there might have been some point where some Gods saw this new civilization with their new Gods and figured 'hey that's free real estate'. As humanity was moving away from living in tribes to having a civilization in which a God of Crime might have a place Loec got in before a God could naturally arise, and by splitting off a God from his aspects of stealth and trickery he made Ranald. I think Isha did something similar with Shallya, where she split off a Goddess from most of her aspects except for the whole nature thing since Rhya already existed in the human pantheon. As time went on Ranald got his new luck aspect and diverged from his parent in other ways, but that was his origin. So Deathfang recognized Ranald as Loec for the same reason Hedgewise magical energies felt familiar to Mathilde - because Godly energies of children Gods resemble that of their parents.
There is another piece of evidence tying Ranald to Loec: the story of Kislev's pantheon, which seems to fit very well with the story of the Ellinilli. But this might not be as big a problem for this theory as it may seem at first glance. If Ranald was split of from Loec there is a sense in which Ranald was Loec before he was 'born'. Looking at it that way, it makes sense to attribute the actions of Loec to Ranald if those actions took place before Ranald was created, and likewise with attributing the actions of Isha to Shallya.
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I'm not sure the elves believe in the concept of luck, rather than fate, which is a quite different thing (which is why they have fate and not luck gods). I'm not sure all Old World humans do to the degree we do, ascribing to the will of various gods and supernatural entities what we think is chance. For example, luck has nothing to do with how good your harvest does, anything beyond your hard work is the result of the conscious agency on agricultural gods blessing you or not, or the interference in said blessing by evil spirits/curses.
An early frost damaging your wheat isn't down to bad luck, it's that the old widow who lives on the edge of the village is a witch who has cursed your crops, or because your neighbour didn't make the appropriate sacrifices to Rhya, etc.
An early frost damaging your wheat isn't down to bad luck, it's that the old widow who lives on the edge of the village is a witch who has cursed your crops, or because your neighbour didn't make the appropriate sacrifices to Rhya, etc.
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
The chopping down trees isn't the problem. The problem is the war Laurelorn would have to fight if they prevented said chopping down. Whoch is a problem caused by the nobles with all the political and military power, not the peasants.
That wasn't because transporting wine is really difficult, that was because there was no demand for transporting wine across the Atlantic until the last few hundred years. Once there was, a solution turned up pretty quick. Not to mention, it would be far from surprising if Elven glasswork is more advanced, which is all you really need for easy wine transport. Well, that and cork, but cork is old.
Even aside from what Codex said, Mathlann is one of the Cytherai. The Asur generally see him as the cause of destruction, not a protector from it, and he's considered fickle and likely to betray his followers.
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pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Also magic cargo space and supernaturally skilled sailors.
My bet would be absolutely nothing, there are priests of Ulric in Kislev who do not recognize the authority of the Imperial cult of Ulric. Hell there are cults of Ulric among the Norscans.
isn't all the island they have still under their control mostly till the modern day so while their mainland colonial empire is killed isn't their ocean empire still doing well?They killed the Phoenix King, levelled every elven city on the continent that hadn't declared independence, and took the Phoenix Crown of Aenerion as a trophy. And while the war had been happening, the Elves also got evicted from Araby by its human population. The War of Vengeance ended the Elven Empire, reducing what had been a worldwide colonial empire to a very small handful of surviving outposts. Here's the 'before' shot:
(If you know the canonical maps well, the longer you look at this the more bizarre errors you find, but they can be written off as an in-character errors by someone who only cared about ancient Elven ruins. 'What shape is Araby again? Pointy, right? Pointy and just about touching Estalia? I probably don't need to double-check that.')
All indications I've seen are that the Elven presence on those islands are garrisons and navy bases used for power projection, and would represent a net drain on Ulthuan's resources.
Edit: They represent a net drain if evaluated as colonies, which is the context of this post: whether Ulthuan is still a major colonial power. Their indirect value as outposts for facilitating trade is not relevant to this specific point and does not need any further pointing out.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
That's quite different from what I expected.
How does the quasi logistics service provider thing work? The EIC doesn't buy cheap in one place, sell more expensively in another and pocket the profits, outside of their various small monopolies? Instead they make their main profits through tariffs, transportation fees and procurement contracts for various feudal lords and other VIPs?
Also, how does this jive with their moderate dominance over intra-Stirland trade and wool products? I assume they are the main go to for intra-Stirland transportation over land and river and actually own a good amount of wool production (thus not making them traders but producers)?
I want to have a House or two on our side first. And we were planning to use the EIC action for scribes next turn iirc.
I'm also curious what the House that's most into Ulric worship now used to be known for before this.
Cut completely? Is there precedence for that? My understanding was that all the major Elven cultures share their gods and the Mandala is more about arrangement than content.
How did it even survive in the last millennium or so?
Especially given how most Elves do worship, by finding the ways that they are sometimes close to the deity in question and deepening that connection through practice, mysticism and emulation. I don't even quite get how that works when it comes to Ereth Kial and Nethu, when you don't have Druuchi sensibilities. Especially when there's no major House keeping the practice alive and vibrant throughout the ages.
I guess due to Elven lifespan some of the worshippers clinging to her might well have been doing it out of habit since before Laurelorn was even independent.
The new inner could also be one of the old outers instead of the three brand new ones, right?
Also, looking at the three Mandalas on the wiki, each one has the same 22 gods sorted into one head, seven inners and fourteen outers. IIRC Isha is the head in Laurelorn and among the inners there are Asuryan, Vaul, Hoeth and Hekarti. Atharti and Ladrielle are also mentioned as gods who are at least important enough that a House cared to dominate their worship. But that's still just four to six inners. Does Laurelorn make do with fewer gods or have you just not revealed all the inners to us yet?
It does buy low and sell high, but it does so by making long-term deals and partnerships to buy and sell at normal and sustainable prices and make profit on volume, rather than seeking out particularly high or low prices to exploit. It would rather make a small, regular, indefinite profit than search for the highest one-off profit margins.
Their dominance is in the transportation from farms to factories and factories to customers. The EIC doesn't actually own the sheep or the grazeland. I've tweaked that part to be a bit clearer.
The Mandala symbolizes the Gods that are particularly important to a subset of Elves. Ereth Khial and Nethu being dropped from it doesn't mean that their worship will stop or has stopped altogether, it means that their worship is no longer as prominent in Laurelorn as that of the other Gods.
Tradition, stubbornness, Elven longevity. Priests of Ereth Khial tend to stick around for quite a while. Some say they make deals with the Pale Queen to prolong their lives, others say they're hanging on by sheer willpower because they know what awaits them.
Right.
Asuryan, Hoeth, Hekarti, Atharti, Vaul, Mathlann, and Morai-heg are on the inner ring for Laurelorn.
I think that def is one purpose of them(heck it says that on the wiki for some of them) but some of the other one say they are used for controlling the trade routes across the great ocean these being traders who go across the ocean to trade with the far east(nippon, cathay). These ports are probably the only safe ports in these parts of the world so traders who go on the sea to trade with the far east have to land their which provide more moeny for them. The part of them controlling trade is according to the citadel of dusk wiki (cited editions in the wiki are all 6+) which if this network is used to support this trade network from far east back to ulthan likely means it a net gain. The one for the lost isles of Elthis says they are 2 colonies there not garrison port which comes with the impetus that it profitable in some way that they were willing to fund a colony their on the other side of the world.
I don't know why we're discussing trade with Laurelorn.
To the best of my knowledge, Laurelorn is surrounded by Nordland. Nordland's common people are Not Happy with the Eonir. The Grand Baron is also Not Happy with the Eonir. The Eonir have killed people, blown up a substantial section of Nordland's economy, and assisted Middenland in publicly humiliating the Grand Baron before the Elector Counts.
Did the Eonir have strong reasons to do this? Absolutely. Is the Grand Baron highly motivated to seek revenge? Absolutely. Will the Eonir be trading through Nordland in the near future? No.
To the best of my knowledge, Laurelorn is surrounded by Nordland. Nordland's common people are Not Happy with the Eonir. The Grand Baron is also Not Happy with the Eonir. The Eonir have killed people, blown up a substantial section of Nordland's economy, and assisted Middenland in publicly humiliating the Grand Baron before the Elector Counts.
Did the Eonir have strong reasons to do this? Absolutely. Is the Grand Baron highly motivated to seek revenge? Absolutely. Will the Eonir be trading through Nordland in the near future? No.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
Nordland isn't their only military opponent, there are also beastmen and greenskins and other assorted griblies. And the firing post trees arent the only important ones, there are also the waytrees.