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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Loltop said:
I'm a firm believer in honest debate over pandering to authority
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Dude. We're reading a work of fiction and discussing how the main cast should proceed. You ain't some kinda freedom fighter against oppressive authority, you're a commenter who pushes out-there ideas because they're "cool" and keeps pushing despite detailed responses pointing out the flaws.
 
Loltop said:
As for going against QM? Boney has the "No." to pull anytime he deems necessary and I'm a firm believer in honest debate over pandering to authority.
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Boney isn't an "authority", he's the person writing the quest. We give him directions, he writes out the consequences of those directions. If he tells us directly that the consequences will be negative, that's not up for debate, because it's not a commandment, it's a warning that yes, actions have consequences, and it would break the quest if we followed through on those actions.

This isn't a "Player vs DM" situation (and I'm glad, because that's a dumb mentality to begin with). We are working with Boney, and that means listening to and respecting him when he says "no, that's not a good idea".

"Debating" him only wastes his time.
 
To add to the god debate. We also need to think about values dissonance, things that we the views, and even the people in story, can look at a situation and thing the god should act.

While the god looks at it and thinks things are fine.

Example: I can see Ulric as totally be fine with theoretical arguments leading to a cult civil war(as long as chaos isn't marching), and let priest on both sides use his power in the fight.

The winner is right.
 
I told you to be self sufficient, me getting involved in every irrelevant argument about proper tableware is not you being self sufficient.
- Ulric, maybe
 
That sort of reminds me of Erathis, the D&D 4e goddess of civilization. In the ancient past, there were two empires, the dragonborn empire of Arkhosia and the tiefling empire of Bael Turath. If I remember correctly*, She manipulated them into a war with each other in order to find out which was "superior", and they ended up destroying each other completely as a consequence (Bael Turath nuked one of their own cities in a desperate attempt to assassinate the Dragon Emperor and his greatest warriors. It worked, but resulted in massive rebellions in all their other cities who didn't want to be nuked and they were overthrown themselves).

Her alignment is "unaligned", which is the 4e equivalent of True Neutral.

* It's been a while since I checked out 4e lore, and it was very subtle in places and required a lot of reading in-between the lines.
 
BurnNote said:
I really like the idea of Mathilde becoming the draconic goddess of magic,
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You know, I'm not sure that becoming the draconic goddess of magic would be good for her. Dragons are a separate species with their own mental quirks, and one of those appears (from the two we've talked to, anyway) to be extreme pride/selfishness. Egocentrism? Something like that, anyway.

Cython, when we first met it, refused to do anything about the orc army bearing down on the mountains its lair is at, with the intention of fighting it, until they actually got to the fighting. Strangers or not, this level of callous disregard would be considered, well... a negative trait for a human - and I feel that for a dragon, it's pretty much within the norm.

Deathfang is incensed that some dragons chose to embrace the Winds, comparing them to Druchii - not because they raid his territory or whatever, but just Because They're Dragons and "should be better". He puts this much stock into being a dragon, and considers other species to be lesser. More importantly, he's proud of driving native inhabitants of planets out of their homes; he considers it a virtue to be able to do this. On a cosmic scale, dragons are parasites, invasive and destructive species, but Deathfang likes it this way.

And yeah, I know that our sample size is two extremely old specimens, but there seems to be enough commonality for me to conclude that dragon mentality is... perhaps not the best to adopt for a human. They might look awesome with their giant wings and everything, but for a human, thinking like a human is really the most fitting option.

I'm so very down for Mathilde to eventually become a goddess of magic tho. I want her to get adopted by Ranald...
 
Somic said:
You know, I'm not sure that becoming the draconic goddess of magic would be good for her. Dragons are a separate species with their own mental quirks, and one of those appears (from the two we've talked to, anyway) to be extreme pride/selfishness. Egocentrism? Something like that, anyway.

Cython, when we first met it, refused to do anything about the orc army bearing down on the mountains its lair is at, with the intention of fighting it, until they actually got to the fighting. Strangers or not, this level of callous disregard would be considered, well... a negative trait for a human - and I feel that for a dragon, it's pretty much within the norm.

Deathfang is incensed that some dragons chose to embrace the Winds, comparing them to Druchii - not because they raid his territory or whatever, but just Because They're Dragons and "should be better". He puts this much stock into being a dragon, and considers other species to be lesser. More importantly, he's proud of driving native inhabitants of planets out of their homes; he considers it a virtue to be able to do this. On a cosmic scale, dragons are parasites, invasive and destructive species, but Deathfang likes it this way.

And yeah, I know that our sample size is two extremely old specimens, but there seems to be enough commonality for me to conclude that dragon mentality is... perhaps not the best to adopt for a human. They might look awesome with their giant wings and everything, but for a human, thinking like a human is really the most fitting option.

I'm so very down for Mathilde to eventually become a goddess of magic tho. I want her to get adopted by Ranald...
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I want Mathilde as a Dragon, and Mathilde as Goddess of magic. So draconic goddess doesn't mean a goddess sepcifically for dragons, it means a goddess who also happens to be a dragon. Sometimes anyway.
 
BurnNote said:
I want Mathilde as a Dragon, and Mathilde as Goddess of magic. So draconic goddess doesn't mean a goddess sepcifically for dragons, it means a goddess who also happens to be a dragon. Sometimes anyway.
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Well, the entire post was about how being a dragon is undesirable from my viewpoint, so I guess we only agree on half of this :p

Edit: unless she gets to be a dragon in the same way she's a dwarf, by being Just That Cool in their ways without compromising her own values. Hmmm. That's a compelling thought.
 
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Somic said:
Well, the entire post was about how being a dragon is undesirable from my viewpoint, so I guess we only agree on half of this :p

Edit: unless she gets to be a dragon in the same way she's a dwarf, by being Just That Cool in their ways without compromising her own values. Hmmm. That's a compelling thought.
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The whole thing was in the context of Cool Shit That Doesn't Work So Well If You Think About It. I just like the aesthetic. So in my mind, it's basically dragon-shaped Mathilde. Or arguably Ulgu-blob Mathilde who depending on situation, has four or six limbs. If you want to sleep on BÖÖK, it's six. If you want to sleep on Panoramia, it's four.
 
BurnNote said:
The whole thing was in the context of Cool Shit That Doesn't Work So Well If You Think About It. I just like the aesthetic. So in my mind, it's basically dragon-shaped Mathilde. Or arguably Ulgu-blob Mathilde who depending on situation, has four or six limbs. If you want to sleep on BÖÖK, it's six. If you want to sleep on Panoramia, it's four.
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Mathy waving at a bed made of books while giving pan the eyebrow wiggles.

Pan: I'm uncomfortable with this fetish…. Literally, that looks like back pains for days.
 
Somic said:
But!.. Wings make you 200% more huggable! Dragon!Mathilde would totally need to swaddle Panoramia in her wings like a giant, foggy, shadowy blanket. I accept nothing less.
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I guess it depends on the temperature and texture of ulgu scales. And how much of an active/cuddly sleeper Mathilde is. If a multi-ton reptile decides it's now on top of you, well that could get uncomfortable. Though ulgu dragons might be fairly light too.
 
If one's soul and body turns entirely into a substance they control, doesn't it mean they could learn to change its size and shape?

...well, a Wind is not an easy thing to control by any measure, but I'm still holding out hope for Enormous Terrifying Shadowy Cloud!Mathilde and Literally Two-Dimensional!Mathilde. With a bonus of Cat!Mathilde.

...

You know, I've been thinking. If she dies and a priest of Morr doesn't get to her in time, could her soul go hang out with Ranald instead? Now that's a Cathilde.
 
Somic said:
If one's soul and body turns entirely into a substance they control, doesn't it mean they could learn to change its size and shape?

...well, a Wind is not an easy thing to control by any measure, but I'm still holding out hope for Enormous Terrifying Shadowy Cloud!Mathilde and Literally Two-Dimensional!Mathilde. With a bonus of Cat!Mathilde.

...

You know, I've been thinking. If she dies and a priest of Morr doesn't get to her in time, could her soul go hang out with Ranald instead? Now that's a Cathilde.
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I'm pretty sure that could happen even if a priest gets to her. That's not just so the soul goes to Morr, it's so no gribbly gets to it. I'm pretty sure Morr doesn't keep the souls of dedicated worshippers of other gods if they don't want that. And Mathilde definitly qualifies.
 
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