TBH one thing is there are different scales of "illegal." In different parts of the divided empire it's hardly impossible that "illegal" might have functionally been "illegal until the local lord gives the okay" while in others it was the good ol' "burn at the stake no exception."
Maybe elementalists were the most likely to be hired by nobility, leading to the "most powerful and respected" bit.
Druids would have been pretty respected in the areas where they held sway, which would largely be the wilderness.
Hedgefolk and the hedgecraft practitioners would also exist in the margins.
Alchemists would up and down swear they were not witches or practicing magic, so even if they might have been legal and potentially rich, they would not have been respected or legal as wizards.
Elementalists, they can exist anywhere, and are probably least limited by their wind or their religion/culture from taking high paying jobs at urban centers.
Basically, the writeup of Elementalists and Elementalism, according to the wiki, is that they were the most powerful and respected wizards before the Articles and Colleges came into being. The exact substance has probably changed but it seems reasonable to start any guess following from a assumption of "the gist of it is carried on into a form where it can be rectified with Boney's canon."
Even if their profession wasn't legal, it seems reasonable to translate that into the Elementalists of old being less likely to be hunted down. At the extreme end, that could translate to the general populace treating them with some amount of respect, (Which would fit with notes of Elementalists who have power go to their heat occasionally being worshipped by heretical nature cults out in the boonies) and perhaps even sometimes outright have a blind eye turned to them by the law. (which, if it were commonplace, could also fit with them bribing Dieter IV.)
Of course, the sanity check here is that in most extreme version of the latter case --- where the Elementalists routinely get the witch hunters to look the other way pre-Magnus and can bribe an Emperor for legality once the Articles and legalization of the Colleges cause the old situation to fall apart around them --- we are basically talking about the Elementalists as a wizard mafia. Put that way, I'm honestly not sure whether that's a point against the theory or a point in it's favor.
In a system like the Empire everyone is a little bit mafia:
The nobles are hereditary strong-men whose capacity to collect protection money depends on maintaining the perception of strength as much as actually having it
The guilds are professional organizations whose monopoly on their occupation depends as much on burning down the competition if they get uppity as it does on their trade secrets
The Colleges of Magic are a loose affiliation of secretive organization where many members have to sacrifice all their earthly possessions to join and where rising in the ranks depends to a great extent by being sealed to the organization through soul deep marks
Summoning an Incarnate Elemantal through human sacrifice is actually something all the Colleges do (it's just that the only ones detailed so far in canon are Death, Fire, Beasts, and Gold)
Here's how our loadout works, from the Collection of Important Information:
Enchanted bullets are theoretically viable depending on the spell/effect, but we'd need to replace one of our activated slots, and it wouldn't stack with the runed revolvers. With our current kit, we'd put it in the Marksdwarf pistol. And that's a lot of resources in terms of CF or AP to use on a limited-use consumable.
I think this one works, instead of the candle of cleansing radiance, like a half dozen bullets that together do the same thing as the candle, but you can also give nurgle a bad day from range. Or just one bullet for more college rep, or we enchant one with Engrim working to help him reduce the size of the enchantment by herding all the other winds away, even the smallest strands so he can fit it in a smaller area?
I think this one works, instead of the candle of cleansing radiance, like a half dozen bullets that together do the same thing as the candle, but you can also give nurgle a bad day from range. Or just one bullet for more college rep, or we enchant one with Engrim working to help him reduce the size of the enchantment by herding all the other winds away, even the smallest strands so he can fit it in a smaller area?
The point of the candle is not offensive, it is to prevent Mathilde from dying of clouds of toxic gas, plague etc... You cannot really statb Nurglish Rot, but we have plenty of ways to deal with enemies at range:
Teleport next to them and hit them with the canon sword
Just shoot them with regular bullets
Hit them with shadow knives
I do not think it would be wise to shoot that protection out of a gun.
The point of the candle is not offensive, it is to prevent Mathilde from dying of clouds of toxic gas, plague etc... You cannot really statb Nurglish Rot, but we have plenty of ways to deal with enemies at range:
Teleport next to them and hit them with the canon sword
Just shoot them with regular bullets
Hit them with shadow knives
I do not think it would be wise to shoot that protection out of a gun.
I know what the the candle is for, but if we could also have another option without losing the protection option that's a win. Nurgle stuff is giant tanky fleshy disease stuff. Bullets, knives and close quarters combat don't seem ideal to me for fighting COVID or plague or nurgle. Dragon flask is only one shot.
I know what the the candle is for, but if we could also have another option without losing the protection option that's a win. Nurgle stuff is giant tanky fleshy disease stuff. Bullets, knives and close quarters combat don't seem ideal to me for fighting COVID or plague or nurgle. Dragon flask is only one shot.
I mean nothing a single person could carry is good for winning a war of attrition with forces of the Plague God, that is their specialty. The candle is designed so we can go in, kill a few champions, get out and flash out a cure once we are safe. It can even do it several times when it comes to Nurglish rot on one charge and the recharging criteria are actually pretty good. Even assuming we could make a similarly themed windherded item there is no guarantee the anti-plague stuff would be as good as what we already have.
Timezone matters if all you have is the date (I didn't know about the exact time thing, thanks for that!) because of the differences in user timezones, not because of a discrepancy between the display and your timezone. For example, if something is posted at 6 am in my timezone, and someone else is five hours behind me, there's a period of five hours where the date the post is made, and the date the user in the -5 timezone is on are not the same, even though they're the same for me.
When I look at the opening post, it was made at 8:07 AM. That's EST.
Would somebody in California looking at it not see 5:07 AM?
Like yes, if somebody is enough hours behind or ahead they'll have a different date, but it would still be exactly 5 years since the original post at the same moment in time for everyone.
I wouldn't. I have it on good authority that his feet stink and his favorite past time is laying on his apartment floor pretending to be a beached whale.
On a story note the Library contiunes to march onward and my excitement grows. Soon all the libraries of the world will tremble before the power of our fully operational fortress library.
If the point isn't "use Malekith's shield", it's "stop Malekith from having his shield", I can see why that's a valid strategic consideration. It sucks personally, but "How much more damage is Malekith personally capable of doing when much more able to defend himself from Ulthuan?" weighed against "How much can we do with our equipment?" is definitely something where you can reasonably come to the conclusion it's worth it.
As Malekith's shield isn't all that big a deal, the trade off isn't worth it. Especially as the only irreplaceable bits of equipment Malekith has are virtually impossible to steal.
The part were you were being genuinely funny and engaging and I thus thought that lighthearted speculation about edge cases/the absurd was still being allowed.
I'm sorry. I must have completely misread your post. You being fed up with even talking about the subject went completely over my head.
The part were you were being genuinely funny and engaging and I thus thought that lighthearted speculation about edge cases/the absurd was still being allowed.
I'm sorry. I must have completely misread your post. You being fed up with even talking about the subject went completely over my head.
I get that Mathilde will never be a physical Dwarf (nor would I want her to become one). And that no non-Chaos mage in universe currently has a reason to develop race changing magic, self-targeted or otherwise.
It was just a funny subject that came up and my comment pretty much amounted to using it to ask "if a Wizard wants to achieve an absurd and life-changing effect that doesn't relate to the Lore they cast with, is researching it as a Ritual not the obvious first avenue to attempt?".
Maybe I'm missing some empathic skill, but I really had zero expectation of hitting a nerf there.
I get that Mathilde will never be a physical Dwarf. And that no non-Chaos mage in universe currently has a reason to develop race changing magic, self-targeted or otherwise.
It was just a funny subject that came up and my comment pretty much amounted to using it to ask "if a Wizard wants to achieve an absurd and life-changing effect that doesn't relate to the Lore they cast with, is researching it as a Ritual not the obvious first avenue to attempt?"
Boney basically posted 'There is no way that would ever work and there is no method that would allow it'
And you responded with 'But what about this method?'
I think you can take it as a good guideline to go by, when Boney writes multiple paragraphs explaining why something can't happen and isn't going to happen, he's not looking for somebody to come back with more edge cases, he just wants to be done with the subject. I think that'd be a good guideline for everyone in the thread in general to go by.
Then I guess my post was written wrong. I thought the preamble about never wanting to do that in Quest was enough to convey that I wasn't looking for a successful way to do that. "What about this method?" was not a question of "would it work?" but about "would something like this be more likely to work in general as a ritual?", the goal being the exploration of rituals and their broad applicability, not the laying of an actual plan to become a Dwarf with one weird trick the QM hates. It just sprang up as a question involving race changing magic because that was the subject at hand that was being talked about in terms of "Ulgu ain't ever doing that".
Theoretical race changing magic is possible (see example: Dragomar), we are not capable of it, have no idea where to even start to research it, and have no present or likely future need for it.
So let's just drop it unless it becomes relevant in quest.
Then I guess my post was written wrong. I thought the preamble about never wanting to do that in Quest was enough to convey that I wasn't looking for a successful way to do that. "What about this method?" was not a question of "would it work?" but about "would something like this be more likely to work in general as a ritual?", the goal being the exploration of rituals and their broad applicability, not the laying of an actual plan to become a Dwarf with one weird trick the QM hates. It just sprang up as a question involving race changing magic because that was the subject at hand that was being talked about in terms of "Ulgu ain't ever doing that".
It would probably help if you don't reply to his post directly while asking a question. That implies that it's, well, a question directed at Boney, which implies the expectation of an answer. Which from Boney's perspective, he just delivered in great detail, so what do you even want?
I think the phrasing was also a bit of a problem. "I would never vote for the Quest to take a step down that path" implies that you think it is a valid path for the quest to go down, because otherwise it would be impossible to vote for it, and therefore relevant to the quest. Which again can come across like you're subtly telling Boney he's wrong, because his post was basically a long list of reasons why it can't happen, ending with a joke that highlights how unlikely it would be.
In this sort of situation, I like to A) make it clear I'm musing on the general worldbuilding, and not making plans for the quest; and B) deliberately do not address Boney. He's going to read it anyway, if there's something that needs comment, but that way he won't have to take time away from more important things (like replying to more relevant things, writing the next update, or y'know, living his life).
"Your Majesty," you say with a bow, as Emperor Luitpold enters the Mappa Mundi room of the Imperial Palace, where an immense mosaic map of the Empire covers the floor.
"Lady Magister," he responds with a nod, and gestures to the man following him in. "This is Graf Otto von Bitternach, Chamberlain of the Seal."
"We've met," you say as you shake the Graf's hand.
"Her advice was quite helpful during Marienburg's talk of barring the First Fleet from the Sea of Claws," he agrees.
"Dragomas said you had news regarding your project with the Elves of Laurelorn," the Emperor prompts.
"I do, with several facets to it. What do you know of the Waystones that dot your realm, your Majesty?"
"They're ancient Elven artefacts that ward off dark magics, I believe."
You consider this. Whoever came up with that layman's explanation was quite clever: it explains what they need to know and minimizes the chances they'd get it in their head to mess with them, either out of fear or ambition. "In effect that's true, but their actual mechanism is rather more involved. You see, when magic first entered the world, it accumulated over centuries until it became thick enough to sustain entire armies of Daemons, who went on to rampage through the continents and besiege the isle of Ulthuan. In response, the Asur created the Great Vortex to drain away excess magical energy, allowing them to break the siege and banish the Daemonic armies. In the centuries that followed they met and entered into an alliance with the Dwarves, and together they built the Waystone Network across the world." You wave your hand and glowing streams of light spread across the floor, forming themselves into the pattern of Nexuses and leylines as they were in the time before the War of the Ancients. "They achieved equilibrium, with the magic flowing in from the Northern Wastes being balanced out by the magic flowing out through the leylines. But the War of the Ancients turned the Elves and Dwarves against each other, and in the end the Elves of Ulthuan abandoned the Old World, save for a couple of holdout colonies that refused to leave. Our ancestors filled the vacuum, building our own cities upon the ruins of the Elves and, either knowingly or not, protecting most of the most important Waystones. But not all."
You point to Ostland, and three points of light go dark. "The Brass Keep, the Blood Fane, and the Tower of Melkhior are all now held by dark forces, making the Forest of Shadows that much darker." You point again, this time to Ostermark. "Mordheim was destroyed, and it's no coincidence that the Vampire Wars began soon after." You point to Westerland. "Almshoven was destroyed by a Plague Fleet during the Great War." You clench your fist, and all the streams of light flicker and disappear. "We teetered on the edge of oblivion and didn't even realize it. But Fort Solace was established soon after with an Asur-supplied monolith at the core of its lighthouse." You wave your hand and the light reappears, rerouted through this new junction. "To get to the Great Vortex, the leylines have to get past the mountains. And currently, the only place they can do that is through Marienburg and its holdings, the maintenance of which is dependent on the largesse of the Asur. Which, I feel, adds an uncomfortable factor to the rather strained state of relations between them and us."
"Would they go so far as to hold it hostage?" Emperor Luitpold asks, his eyes turning to the Chamberlain of the Seal.
"Hard to say," Graf Otto replies after a moment of thought. "I doubt Ulthuan would actually follow through on any veiled threats - that sort of thing would be ruinous for their reputation in the Old World - but if Marienburg wasn't in the habit of slipping leashes they'd still be a province."
"There has been suspicion that the mining on the Skull River was the work of rogue elements within Marienburg," you mention. "And my contacts within Tor Lithanel suggest that Ulthuan would have a limited ability to replace destroyed Waystones."
"So some rogue brinksmanship could end up flinging us right over the edge, even if most of Marienburg doesn't want it," the Emperor muses. "Why did the Elves build this with a single point of failure in the first place?"
"Good question, one I've been digging into myself. And what I've found is that they didn't." You point to Wissenland. "Bugman's Brewery, built on the site of the Dwarven settlement of Kazad Thar by members of Karak Norn's royal family. My suspicion is that this was once part of an alternate route for magic to flow, from there to Karak Norn to the Elven settlement within Athel Loren. But the reputation of the Asrai in this modern era suggests they are no longer the sort to leave immense magical power untouched. So feeding them the magical runoff from most of a continent could be... problematic." There's murmurs of agreement from your audience. "For this reason, I suspect the Dwarves of Karak Norn might have removed this possibility millennia ago, most likely during the War of the Ancients."
"You haven't asked them?" the Emperor asks.
"Not yet," you reply. "It's a minefield of taboo subjects, so should only be approached with great forethought and delicacy."
"And Karak Norn are an odd bunch, even by Dwarven standards," Graf Otto adds.
You point to Reikland, and an isolated point of light appears up against the mountains. "And then there's my most recent discovery: Athel Yenlui, hidden in the foothills north of Helmgart. And I do mean hidden, if I didn't have a map from the Eonir pointing me straight to it I doubt I would have found it at all. Once a Waystone allowing magic to flow from Altdorf to Castle Parravon, but since adapted into what we're calling an Aethyric Shunt. The purpose it now serves is twofold: it is why the Reikwald is so much milder than the Drakwald or the Great Forest, and it is why the Vorbergland is so fertile."
The Emperor frowns. "I take it that it can't continue doing that while serving this Waystone Network of yours?"
"I'm afraid not."
"Well, at least it defangs the hostage scenario. They'd be able to confirm the existence of this Athel with their contacts in Ulthuan, and that would dissuade them from following through, since it would unite the Old World against them without actually putting overwhelming pressure on the Empire. Speaking of Ulthuan, any sign of them sniffing around Tor Lithanel?"
"Not yet, though the Naggarothi are making overtures."
"Won't be long until Ulthuan arrives then, mark my words," Graf Otto says.
"But if we're going to make use of it," the Emperor says, "we need to make sure we keep a hold of it. Especially if it's currently responsible for the relative bounty of the Reikland." He walks over the map, gingerly stepping over the magical light signifying the leylines, and leans over to consider the position of Athel Yenlui. "It had to be there. The Margrave of Helmgart might be able to afford the cost of garrisoning it, but that would get the Graf of Eilhart and the Baron of Ussingen up in arms, even though neither of them can afford it. Might even be easier to foist it off onto the Graf of Schilderheim since it's accessible via the Schilder, but then the Graf of Holthusen would oppose it. No, it'll have to be someone else." He pauses, his frown deepening. "Would the Elves try to claim it?"
"No," you say confidently, "the revanchist faction going extinct is what allowed them to reach out to us in the first place. Besides, they're as bad as Altdorfers about how insistent they are that their city is the best place to live."
"One of the Cults, maybe, or the Jades or Ambers. We'll see. What of the Project itself?"
"Investigation of the medium-sized Waystones is ongoing, but we've managed to recreate the smaller, supplemental ones using a few different magical paradigms. Actually implementing them would be long-term projects - my best estimate is that a team of four magic-users could meet the needs of a province within a decade - but if they are put into place, then the benefits of reducing the amount of stagnant magic would be widespread. Citizens will be healthier and saner, there'll be less mutants and Beastmen born, storms of magic will be rarer, there'll be less mayhem on Geheimnisnacht and Hexensnacht, and less power available to Necromancers and Sorcerers."
"Shouldn't be that hard a sell to at least set it up around the cities and larger towns. What do you mean by 'magical paradigms'?"
"There's a Jade Order ritual that requires interfacing with an established forest. I'm not sure if Reikland would qualify because of the effects of the Aethyric Shunt, but that should work fine for Talabecland." He nods, and you continue. "There's a Kislevite Hag Witch ritual that uses a water spirit to establish them, that would be suited for the southern provinces and Reikland."
"What's the legal status of the Hag Witches?"
"They don't perform magic directly, they wrangle various kinds of spirits to get things done. According to mainstream doctrine in the Empire, that would make them closer to Priests than Wizards. Besides that, the ritual can be performed by our own Wizards as long as they can secure the cooperation of a water spirit." He nods. "Finally, there's a ritual dedicated to a minor Goddess worshipped within the Forest of Shadows called Halétha. This one seems to me the most flexible as it can be performed anywhere as long as it's done by a member of their priesthood, but legally it's tricky. They're associated with the northern branches of the Hedgewise, a rural magical tradition that's as old as the Empire, but has splintered over the years into a number of different belief systems. The Grey Order has been working on bringing some of their branches into the fold, and their involvement in this project is a part of that, but the efforts of the Templars to stamp them out has made them slow to trust."
He nods. "Dragomas and Yorri clash often on the topic."
"A question, if I may," Graf Otto says, and the Emperor nods his assent. "You say this magic flows through Bretonnia to reach Ulthuan. Does this mean that there are more vulnerable bottlenecks within its borders?"
"I've attempted to secure Bretonnia's involvement, but they seem to feel snubbed by their not being host to the Project, so I can only speculate, but the geography of the Tilean-Estalian border suggests it might be a point of vulnerability, and the dire state of Mousillon suggests that Gisoreux would now be another. The only point I've confirmed as an exit point for magic on the Old World is Los Cabos in Estalia, though Castle Lyonesse may be one as well."
"Are you suggesting," the Emperor says slowly, "that the entire Empire might be lost to the Chaos Wastes if a single Estalian city-port were to fall?"
"I don't think it would come to that, your Majesty. Ulthuan appears to be keeping a close eye on Los Cabos, and should it be endangered I believe it likely that they would either defend or replace it, as they did to Almshoven. I suspect that they have come to rely on a constant influx of magic to maintain their realm."
"Disquieting nevertheless. Thank you for your work in this endeavour, Lady Magister, and I task you with continuing it. The benefits you describe are worthwhile, and though I do not like to hear of these hitherto unknown vulnerabilities, I'd much rather know about them now than when the razing of some southern village dooms the continent."
"It is an honour to serve, your Majesty. I will pass word of any further developments via the Supreme Patriarch."
---
Markgraf Nyklaus Schurz, as it turns out, is Markgraf twice over. First, as one of many sons of the Markgravine of Essen and therefore, as Markgraf is an inherently militant title, automatically entitled to call himself by the title he must be ready to inherit should his mother and many older brothers be slain at that frontier of the Empire. And now, though not yet announced to the Empire at large, soon to be the warden of the much greater march of Eastern Stirland. The man himself is a disconcertingly intense fellow a few years your junior, wearing the extravagant twin-tailed hat of a seaborn officer and has a goatee that juts alarmingly out from his chin.
"Do you know what a caul is?" he asks you abruptly after introductions are exchanged.
You look at him quizzically. "The headdress?"
"Haha, in a sense. Very rarely a child is born with part of the sac that contained them still clinging to their scalp. Among certain sects of the Morrites, including my own family, it is considered a sign that the one that bears it is to become the next Andanti, the Morr-blessed slayer of Vampires, that my family believed itself part of the bloodline of. Incorrectly, as it turned out. So very many years trained in a form of combat senseless to merely mortal men, and a jaunt into Sylvania to awaken what was thought to be my birthright. It was, in all respects, an utter farce. One that in all likelihood would have killed me, were it not for your very self, and your Grace, carving a bloody swathe across it and distracting all the worst horrors that dwell in its shadows. Instead it scarred me, and killed my handlers, and gave me opportunity to leave for the other fraternity that considers the caul to be a mark of greatness: sailors. A less glorious brotherhood, perhaps, but one that manages to produce more than one worthy a generation.
"It was, I can now admit, a youthful tantrum, but one I will never regret, as it taught me the measure of myself, and over the years earned me glory enough that I could return to my disgraced family and snatch back the petty titles that was all they could truly pass down. Now I return to the place that made a lie of everything I thought I was, and the place that I will teach the lie of what it thinks itself to be. Sylvania has not existed for centuries, not since the Von Draks went extinct in the maw of the Vampire. It is now, and will never be more than, Eastern Stirland. I will spill the blood of those that found it comfortable to pay their taxes in the blood of others, and I will allow all the others the gentle mercy of taxes in unsanguine kind. It will be as blissfully moral a task as the pursuit of the fanged ones, as those that resist deserve all the evils that I will pay unto them, and all that welcome me will deserve all the mercies that they will learn to be normal in every other corner of our realm."
You take a moment to take in his slightly manic speech. "Your ambitions, at least, are the equal of the task before you."
"And am I? After all, is that not why you are here? To pass judgement on the man that will finish the job that your younger self began?"
You return the man's frankly evaluating look with one of your own. "I'm mostly here to make sure you're not actually a Vampire. The rest is curiosity."
"Can you actually spot that?"
"In my experience, yes. I suspect that there are some who may be able to make their soul look like that of a regular human, but it would take constant concentration and an extremely deft hand to be able to make ambient Winds react normally to it, and that's only if they knew they needed to do so."
"Fascinating. Is whatever you're currently doing more important than Sylvania?"
"Funny you should ask, it might actually be better for Sylvania..."
A long and detailed conversation about Sylvania and the many different possible approaches to taming its horrors, you part ways a lot less unsure about leaving Sylvania in his hands. He's clearly out of his depth, but aware of it and willing to keep digging as far down as it takes to entrench himself. Short of doing the job yourself, that may be the best you can ask for. He's also a touch on the overly energetic side, but that's far from the worst of character quirks that might be expected of the sort of person willing to take this job. That's not to say you won't turn a careful eye in his direction from time to time, but you might not need to have a blade ready every time you do so.
Here's a fun one: Where would you put the mention of one of the most prized magical items (Algrund's Orrery) of the Celestial College? Is it in Realms of Sorcery, the book that supposed to be all about diving deeper into the lore and worldbuilding of the Colleges and Wizards and magic in general, or is it in Night's Dark Masters, the book all about vampires, because the Lahmian Sisterhood really want to steal the thing?
