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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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pucflek said:
Didn't that section contain the part of dialogue where Mathilde (and anyone not Hatalath, the smug bastard) couldn't catch on because Albion is such an outlandish myth it never even came up as consideration as potential transference point?

(As an aside, why are we mapping waystone network in its entirety in old world again? I genuinely cannot remember. Because once we have the three examples of what we need to construct, its not like we actually need to know where more nexuses are right up until we know how to build more).
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Because we don't we know what points of failure there are in the network on the way to Ulthuan. We don't know what links Bretonnia has to Estalia, though presumably there's at least one. We don't know if Los Cabos is a single point of failure, which if collapsed could bring down the entire network for the Old World. Or if maybe there's somewhere else (Araby?) from which Ulthuan can be reached.

If Los Cabos is a point of failure for the rest of the Old World... well, I'm sure Estalia, Bretonnia, the Empire and probably Tilea would all like to know in case it gets attacked and needs friendly reinforcements. Similarly if a point of failure on the way is located on foreign territory.

And if/when we get a waystone prototype working, it'd massively help to know which places could use more waystones connecting certain places - more links leading to Ulthuan, seeing where in Stirland or Mousillon they could be connected to other places. On top of that, pursuing would definitely eventually tell us that Albion exists.
 
Parabola said:
Because we don't we know what points of failure there are in the network on the way to Ulthuan. We don't know what links Bretonnia has to Estalia, though presumably there's at least one. We don't know if Los Cabos is a single point of failure, which if collapsed could bring down the entire network for the Old World. Or if maybe there's somewhere else (Araby?) from which Ulthuan can be reached.
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Okay, but that does not help us to make any new waystones, nexuses and so on at this moment. Its something that we don't know we will even use yet. Idk. I would rather spend the time actually researching how to make the new ones. We already have extant examples of all three tiers of the network and figured out the simplest one.

I accept the previous argument that we need to figure out where the shitty ones are to see if we can fix them but this still feels like something we should do in the closing stages of the research, not the initial ones, when we don't even know if we will make full use of it.
 
pucflek said:
Okay, but that does not help us to make any new waystones, nexuses and so on at this moment. Its something that we don't know we will even use yet. Idk. I would rather spend the time actually researching how to make the new ones. We already have extant examples of all three tiers of the network and figured out the simplest one.

I accept the previous argument that we need to figure out where the shitty ones are to see if we can fix them but this still feels like something we should do in the closing stages of the research, not the initial ones, when we don't even know if we will make full use of it.
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We also do it because we easily can do it with a webmat action which is good for our action economy. We don't really need any of the important members to follow leylines.
 
Is it weird that I'm suddenly invested in creating a talent pool of scribe orphans who know how to keep a secret?

Training up a pool of world-class secretaries/executive assistants would both ensure more orphans end up in a good place and that there are more writing-capable people out in the world who might be hired out across the old world but ultimately answer to the Grey Order.
 
So, if we were to start spreading the tributaries now, we can effectively cover:

1: The forest of shadows and the territory it's in. (Can off load the workload to the 40+ hedgewise, though there are problems with that from them only just managing those number and operating at scale while illegal.)

2: Laurelorn Forest. (Magic elf power is not a problem, may have to talk to one of the other magic houses for more elf power if we want it done fast.)

3:Kislev (actually the easiest in some ways, as the Hags are well respected so will get little trouble from the locals. But are In prime 'chaos says no' position.)

Logically, we should prioritise Kislev, but politics means the Emp and Queen are going to ask us to do them first unless Boris (or another faction pays up politically.)

I think the next step will be something dwarf, or something that fixes other parts of the empire.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
1: The forest of shadows and the territory it's in. (Can off load the workload to the 40+ hedgewise, though there are problems with that from them only just managing those number and operating at scale while illegal.)
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I don't think we actually can do the forest of shadows because of two things.
A) it's still full of dangerous griblies and
B) you need a waystone nearby to send the magic too.

Edit: and all the waystones in the forest are in the hands of either the beastmen, a crazy powerful vampire or probably chaos.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Logically, we should prioritise Kislev, but politics means the Emp and Queen are going to ask us to do them first unless Boris (or another faction pays up politically.)
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The thing is as currently set up Kislev is probably the group that can just handle things completely internally the best. Once the hag witch participant tells the other hag witches how to set up the tributaries they can start gradually setting them up with basically no input from anyone outside of Kislev required.
 
Having Hedgewise set up tributaries across the Empire is probably not that difficult; for the time that they're working, under Grey supervision, they can likely be laundered into counting as a "foreign expert". After all, when we were giving our waagh and peace talk, the only thing that mercenary wizard from...I think Tilea? Needed to be allowed to exist on Empire soil was a letter from a local ruler saying "this guy's cool and not a witch".

The part that's harder is what you offer them to make it worth their time to go all over the land of the people trying to kill them and make it safer for the people who think they should be burnt at the stake. Even leaving aside the ethical concerns, the fact that a member of the project would object, and our religious reasons not to, forcing mages to build tributaries under duress is a profoundly bad idea, so there needs to be a way to pay them. Personally, I have trouble thinking of things that are worth giving them other than promising to stop actively trying to kill them, which is a tough, if not impossible change to make happen, politically.
 
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adaer said:
After all, when we were giving our waagh and peace talk, the only thing that mercenary wizard from...I think Tilea? Needed to be allowed to exist on Empire soil was a letter from a local ruler saying "this guy's cool and not a witch".
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I mean, yeah it seems to have worked that time but let's note that the guy was visibly extremely nervous, presumably because that isn't really... GUARUNTEED to work. The fact of that matter is that guy probably wasn't actually legally supposed to be allowed in the Empire but the powers that be decided that orcs having a worse time if they happen to run into that specific guy in Tilea made it worthwhile to overlook the fact, and the fact that altdorf is the center of power of those powers that be made much easier for that exception to actually be enforced. If he ran into a witch hunter that hadn't heard the command handed down to let him be out in the boonies, there's a very good chance that letter would not have saved him.
 
I was about to dismissively say that Tilea and Estalia don't have any magical traditions worth talking about anyway, before I realised the absurdity of what I was saying.

They're two entire countries, and they aren't tiny. They get thoroughly ignored in canon, so we know very little about them - yes the Colleges recruit from there, but who's to say they don't have their own well-established magical traditions, that just happen to be extremely insular? The mercenary mage with the letter declaring him to be a magic-caster in good standing learnt his craft somehow, and learnt it well enough to be deemed safe. We shouldn't dismiss the possibility of them knowing something useful.

That being said, we still have the Amber Order, Bretonnia and the cult of Tahoth Trisheros to look at before we go further afield. (And of the three, the Ambers are essentially guaranteed not to require re-examining the project's foundations.)
 
Tobtorp said:
I don't think we actually can do the forest of shadows because of two things.
A) it's still full of dangerous griblies and
B) you need a waystone nearby to send the magic too.

Edit: and all the waystones in the forest are in the hands of either the beastmen, a crazy powerful vampire or probably chaos.
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I'm all for looking at the Forest of Shadow nexus, but only after we make adequate preparations - even if we're only snooping around, Boney has said that it has entities far older and more magically powerful than Mathilde and she'd treat it as the enemy territory that it essentially is.

We should probably finish Branarhune, in case things go south and we need to fight our way out; we could try learning Scouting up to 3/3, although part of me is tempted to not do so because scouting this of all places might well get it up to that. Hell, since the Tower of Melkhior is one of the locations to scout out, I would seriously consider that reading the Scrolls of Zandri beforehand might grant some insight into W'soran, Melkhior's sire and patriarch of the whole Necrarch bloodline (much like reading the Liber Mortis granted Von Carstein Lore).

And we've discussed before whether the Gambler should be used for this action, or the Father, since Haletha's arguably biggest sphere is protecting people from the Forest of Shadows - personally, I'd lean more towards the latter.
 
Parabola said:
I'm all for looking at the Forest of Shadow nexus, but only after we make adequate preparations - even if we're only snooping around, Boney has said that it has entities far older and more magically powerful than Mathilde and she'd treat it as the enemy territory that it essentially is.

We should probably finish Branarhune, in case things go south and we need to fight our way out; we could try learning Scouting up to 3/3, although part of me is tempted to not do so because scouting this of all places might well get it up to that. Hell, since the Tower of Melkhior is one of the locations to scout out, I would seriously consider that reading the Scrolls of Zandri beforehand might grant some insight into W'soran, Melkhior's sire and patriarch of the whole Necrarch bloodline (much like reading the Liber Mortis granted Von Carstein Lore).

And we've discussed before whether the Gambler should be used for this action, or the Father, since Haletha's arguably biggest sphere is protecting people from the Forest of Shadows - personally, I'd lean more towards the latter.
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Oh I'm not saying we should get the waystones back now, I'm just saying that putting tributaries into the forest of shadows is useless until the waystones there are active again.

And I'd rather have an army at our backs if we go in there...
 
Tobtorp said:
Oh I'm not saying we should get the waystones back now, I'm just saying that putting tributaries into the forest of shadows is useless until the waystones there are active again.

And I'd rather have an army at our backs if we go in there...
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So would I, but it'd be very hard to convince Nordland or Ostland to send armies inside unless there was credible information that something was gonna come out and that it'd be preferable to send something in.

Ideally, the Forest of Shadows action would be sneaking and snooping, maybe looting something if the opportunity arises, and then getting the hell out of dodge.
 
Tobtorp said:
Oh I'm not saying we should get the waystones back now, I'm just saying that putting tributaries into the forest of shadows is useless until the waystones there are active again.

And I'd rather have an army at our backs if we go in there...
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Parabola said:
So would I, but it'd be very hard to convince Nordland or Ostland to send armies inside unless there was credible information that something was gonna come out and that it'd be preferable to send something in.

Ideally, the Forest of Shadows action would be sneaking and snooping, maybe looting something if the opportunity arises, and then getting the hell out of dodge.
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I dunno, I don't think I'd want a big obvious army at my back when I want to be sneaky...
 
LadyLynn said:
I dunno, I don't think I'd want a big obvious army at my back when I want to be sneaky...
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What I mean to say is that under non-sneaking circumstances, yes, you'd ideally want an army while going in there. Maybe a small elite one for speed, but an army nevertheless. But the action involves merely looking at the nexuses so sneaking is the expected action.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
Rafin said:
@Boney Does Mathilde know anything about how Estalians treat spellcasters, be they foreign or domestic?
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Like the pre-Teclisean Empire, there's a number of insular magical traditions that self-police, and Cult-backed Witch Hunters go after anyone using the Bad Magic. Most Estalian Kings have a magic-user in their court, and ones trained by the Empire's Colleges are considered the most prestigious. A lot of banished or disgruntled College Wizards end up in Tilea and Estalia, and some find and train their own Apprentices without any involvement of the Colleges, so you also end up with sort-of Teclisean Wizards who've never stepped foot in the Empire.
 
Andres said:
How many banished or disgruntled College Wizards are there? It sounds like the Empire kinda has a problem in this regard.
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The Colleges as a whole can't pick and choose their recruits, they need to make the best of everyone they get. Banishing is seen as a preferable alternative to execution for someone who can't or won't be a useful members of the College ecosystem but hasn't actually crossed any lines, and a lot of the type that won't play nice with others end up working really well as a big fish in a realm of small ponds.
 
How in the world do those ne'er-do-well types even make it to Magister? Do the tests only account for how accomplished and capable the wizard is with no regard for loyalty or dedication?
 
StormySky said:
How in the world do those ne'er-do-well types even make it to Magister? Do the tests only account for how accomplished and capable the wizard is with no regard for loyalty or dedication?
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A lot of them don't. 'Perpetual Journeyman' isn't an official designation, but it's definitely a thing. Others benefit from an overly-lax or optimistic Master with influence, or from a hope that they'll grow into the role, or from an ability to fake it convincingly.
 
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