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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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And some might have just walked away as journeymen.
Not to mention all the ones that "disappeared" and are totally not working as spies for the Grey College.

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Eshin'd
 
I was thinking about Mathilde while petting random sheep in Bherna while playing her in Monster Hunter, and I was thinking about how much she seemed to like animals. More so than children:
Boney said:
"Fairly," you concede, watching the future Emperor pluck at loose hairs on Heidi's stole. You refrain from mentioning that Wolf is capable of talking in complete sentences. You suppose teaching someone to talk is harder when they're not directly linked to your mind.
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Her instinctive desire to want to point out how superior Wolf is is an example, but her jealousy over the Ambers getting kittybirds is another. She also obviously holds a fondness for cats, and even had a pet cat back at the College. I love this character trait, it's super cute, and I always think of it when I'm petting the sheep at the village. There's even an animation for kissing the sheep's nose, and I can't help but laugh at the idea of Mathilde doing that.
 
Boney said:
The Colleges as a whole can't pick and choose their recruits, they need to make the best of everyone they get. Banishing is seen as a preferable alternative to execution for someone who can't or won't be a useful members of the College ecosystem but hasn't actually crossed any lines, and a lot of the type that won't play nice with others end up working really well as a big fish in a realm of small ponds.
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When you put it like that, I wonder how much Mathilde has in common with the common Tilean Wizard.

Sure, she's a Magister Lord in good standing now but when she went out... She took on a disdain for Sigmar that made working within the boundaries of the Empire much more difficult, and shortly after she was fired by her new boss. So being on the cusp of Magister rank she goes home to graduate and is then heads off into the world. Looking at the vote back then, between all options the thought of staying home, while present, was about or less than half as strong as venturing out into the world. Rather than be banished, she left, but I imagine that would still be true of many mercenary wizards.

There are key differences of course: Instead of a mercenary company in Tilea or Estalia, Mathilde went into the arms of the Empire's staunchest ally; instead of going alone, she did it alongside a number of other magisters and journeymen in good standing; and rather than drop off the map she stayed in touch via numerous papers and the occasional visit, deed, or lecture. Perhaps the most important difference though being that instead of coin or power alone, she turned to the arms of allies who had shown aid and comfort to both the Empire and to her, personally, in time of pain and grief.
 
The Phoenixian said:
When you put it like that, I wonder how much Mathilde has in common with the common Tilean Wizard.

Sure, she's a Magister Lord in good standing now but when she went out... She took on a disdain for Sigmar that made working within the boundaries of the Empire much more difficult, and shortly after she was fired by her new boss. So being on the cusp of Magister rank she goes home to graduate and is then heads off into the world. Looking at the vote back then, between all options the thought of staying home, while present, was about or less than half as strong as venturing out into the world. Rather than be banished, she left, but I imagine that would still be true of many mercenary wizards.

There are key differences of course: Instead of a mercenary company in Tilea or Estalia, Mathilde went into the arms of the Empire's staunchest ally; instead of going alone, she did it alongside a number of other magisters and journeymen in good standing; and rather than drop off the map she stayed in touch via numerous papers and the occasional visit, deed, or lecture. Perhaps the most important difference though being that instead of coin or power alone, she turned to the arms of allies who had shown aid and comfort to both the Empire and to her, personally, in time of pain and grief.
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Also important is that she maintains a strong presence within the Empire thanks to a variety of friends in high places, like Roswita, Heidi and the EIC in general and Wilhemina in particular. For a person that doesn't frequent the Empire often, she has a great degree of influence within it. Few people can say they can have a word with the Empress, Patriarch, a major trading empire, an Elector and a Dwarf King.
 
The Phoenixian said:
There are key differences of course: Instead of a mercenary company in Tilea or Estalia, Mathilde went into the arms of the Empire's staunchest ally; instead of going alone, she did it alongside a number of other magisters and journeymen in good standing; and rather than drop off the map she stayed in touch via numerous papers and the occasional visit, deed, or lecture. Perhaps the most important difference though being that instead of coin or power alone, she turned to the arms of allies who had shown aid and comfort to both the Empire and to her, personally, in time of pain and grief.
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There was the opportunity to do the solitary mercenary wizard thing for the Dwarves, though. The thread voted for the K8P Expedition rather than go treasure hunting in Karak Varn, while based out of Zhufbar.
 
silentorphan said:
There was the opportunity to do the solitary mercenary wizard thing for the Dwarves, though. The thread voted for the K8P Expedition rather than go treasure hunting in Karak Varn, while based out of Zhufbar.
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I wouldn't mind doing that after the Waystone project is done. Either that, Border Princes or Sylvania if it is still open position.
 
I was reading our first meeting with Cython and Bok. I'm wondering do we have any idea what languages they both used?
The hints of Khazalid and Old Reikspiel make me think maybe Tylosian or another pre Old Reikspiel language? I'm not sure about the hints of a serpent's hiss, does that maybe link to snake god Ranald?
For Bok the languages make me think of the coins from Tylos, Strygos and Nehekhara. I wonder if he knows full languages or just a few prewritten emergency messages.

Boney said:
It seems content to have only its head within the meeting place you have chosen, but the sight of it has robbed you of your prepared introduction. Instead the dragon is the first to speak, and the sentence it speaks has a hint of Khazalid and a hint of Old Reikspiel and a hint of a serpent's hiss. It stares at you, its pupil larger than your fist and seeming to emit a beam of light, and then it speaks again. This time you recognize the language, and you curse your past self that chose to learn Old Reikspiel over Classical.

"Do you speak Old Reikspiel?" you say hopefully. "Or regular Reikspiel, for that matter?"

Evidently not, as when it speaks again, it is in a language that if you were forced to guess, would be one of the human languages of the Far East, though you couldn't say which.

"I don't suppose Khazalid?" A moment of silence answers that, before the dragon makes its next attempt.

"Though you are blessed with not being water-folk, do you sing their song?" Eltharin! A terrible language for communicating clearly and concisely, but at least it's something.

"Yes, I speak Eltharin," you say.
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Boney said:
The Elemental stops before it reaches you and raises a hand, and stone spreads out from its fingers until it is holding out a stone depiction of a tablet, and the surface of it ripples as Khazalid appears upon it. Visitor to Vala-Azril-Ungol; there exists danger within the Karak. Please proceed to safety at: Bok. None found. Please inform Runelord: Bok. None found. Please inform Archmage: Bok. None found. Please inform Runelord... And the writing repeats itself over and over until it reaches the end of the tablet. Underneath that, Eltharin runes, Classical characters, Nehekharan hieroglyphs, and another language you don't recognize perform what you assume to be the same repetition.
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Wodger said:
I was reading our first meeting with Cython and Bok. I'm wondering do we have any idea what languages they both used?
The hints of Khazalid and Old Reikspiel make me think maybe Tylosian or another pre Old Reikspiel language? I'm not sure about the hints of a serpent's hiss, does that maybe link to snake god Ranald?
For Bok the languages make me think of the coins from Tylos, Strygos and Nehekhara. I wonder if he knows full languages or just a few prewritten emergency messages.
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Process of elimination would suggest Bok's last language was Strygosi.
 
Mopman43 said:
Process of elimination would suggest Bok's last language was Strygosi.
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I'm not sure how different Strygosi's script would be from Nehekharan. Ushoran was a Nehekharan Prince and he's the lynchpin of that civilisation. Even assuming linguistic changes I still assume they would be using a script similar to Nehkhara, at least enough for Mathilde to make the comparison.
 
Boney said:
and some find and train their own Apprentices without any involvement of the Colleges, so you also end up with sort-of Teclisean Wizards who've never stepped foot in the Empire.
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Curious how they manage the mono-Wind environments. But I guess it doesn't matter until we stay there for more than half an update.
 
Codex said:
I'm not sure how different Strygosi's script would be from Nehekharan. Ushoran was a Nehekharan Prince and he's the lynchpin of that civilisation. Even assuming linguistic changes I still assume they would be using a script similar to Nehkhara, at least enough for Mathilde to make the comparison.
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If the preexisting population of Strygos spoke a different language then maybe Nehekharan script was incompatible with it, similar to how the brothers Cyrill invented a new script when they wanted to translate the Bible because the Greek alphabet didn't fit the Slavic language (or so I learned in school).

Especially if Nehekharan was still pictographic, Ushoran or one of his Councilors might have decided that a syllabic or phonetic script would be more useful in a situation where high nobility from one nationality ruled over a population of another nationality. I don't even know how many vampires in Strygos other than Ushoran were Nehekharan originals.
 
Rafin said:
If the preexisting population of Strygos spoke a different language then maybe Nehekharan script was incompatible with it, similar to how the brothers Cyrill invented a new script when they wanted to translate the Bible because the Greek alphabet didn't fit the Slavic language (or so I learned in school).

Especially if Nehekharan was still pictographic, Ushoran or one of his Councilors might have decided that a syllabic or phonetic script would be more useful in a situation where high nobility from one nationality ruled over a population of another nationality. I don't even know how many vampires in Strygos other than Ushoran were Nehekharan originals.
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Yeah, my guess would be the original people of Mourkhain had their own script.
 
Rafin said:
If the preexisting population of Strygos spoke a different language then maybe Nehekharan script was incompatible with it, similar to how the brothers Cyrill invented a new script when they wanted to translate the Bible because the Greek alphabet didn't fit the Slavic language (or so I learned in school).

Especially if Nehekharan was still pictographic, Ushoran or one of his Councilors might have decided that a syllabic or phonetic script would be more useful in a situation where high nobility from one nationality ruled over a population of another nationality. I don't even know how many vampires in Strygos other than Ushoran were Nehekharan originals.
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We are talking about vampires here. Would they care if learning Neherkaran would be inconvenient for the locals? I mean they were among the best of the lot, but in this context that means 'maybe mortals aren't cattle after all'.
 
Codex said:
I'm not sure how different Strygosi's script would be from Nehekharan. Ushoran was a Nehekharan Prince and he's the lynchpin of that civilisation. Even assuming linguistic changes I still assume they would be using a script similar to Nehkhara, at least enough for Mathilde to make the comparison.
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... I just realized that Warhammer Fantasy made the Fantasy Roma actually influenced by Fantasy Egypt. The Gypsy tie is actually a thing in Warhammer.
 
LightLan said:
Plenty of pre-colleges magical traditions managed without them or with naturally occurring mono-wind environments.
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To a certain degree of managed. Pre/Non-Teclisian magical traditions that used the Winds may have had significant rates of burn out during training and short expected life spans, like Witches and Necromancers.

The Colleges use mono-Wind training environments to avoid the side effects of accidentally using multiple Winds whike your learning to use only one. If your tradition doesn't try to only use one Wind you may just put up with the minor mutations and mental impact of regular Dhar use.

Sure, even if you're careful that might usually drive you mad after a couple of decades, but that's long enough to train replacements, and the mental impact of Dhar use would give you the 'self-confidence' (hubris) to keep using it despite the mutations and the attrition rate of your apprentices.

There are plenty of fantasy settings where magic use is unhealthy yet people still learn it. Even a little bit of phenomenal cosmic power in the short run can make the long run costs seem very far away.

A magical tradition can be a lot less healthy or stable than the Collegiate one and still be viable in the medium run. And if that tradition dies out someone later can reinvent it based on the folk memory or written records of it even if there's no direct transmission of knowledge.
 
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Alratan said:
To a certain degree of managed. Pre/Non-Teclisian magical traditions that used the Winds may have had significant rates of burn out during training and short expected life spans, like Witches and Necromancers.
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Assuming there are no natural places that has near monowind or that pre-Teclisians didn't know how to create one.

I mean I don't think anybody created Amberhills but it is monowind enough for the collages.
 
Also Tilea and Estalia may be far enough south that many of the usual issues that plague Imperial wizards are reduced. And there may be selection pressure so that their College equivalents tend to be towards the southernmost edge.


Or there may be repurposed nexuses like the one we just found in Reikland that provide a close enough equivalent in combination with that distance. Until we go looking, we have insufficient data for any surety.
 
DragonParadox said:
We are talking about vampires here. Would they care if learning Neherkaran would be inconvenient for the locals? I mean they were among the best of the lot, but in this context that means 'maybe mortals aren't cattle after all'.
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IIRC Ushoran was one of the more even handed progenitor vampires and Strygos was a functional country that even now still has Humans pining for its good old days. Sure, vampires kill and eat a certain amount of humans and thus wean themselves off of seeing them as remotely equal very fast, but that doesn't mean they are literally treated or seen like cattle. You wouldn't train your cattle into a functional military, or have some of your cattle be trusted tax collectors or mint coins for your cattle to use and run an economy with.

I mean my whole basis for my opinion that vampire rule is better than Druchii rule was that vampires do not usually practice cattle slavery. And Strygos was the least bad of the vampire run states in history.
 
The Vampire have an unfair advantage in that there's been many vampire civilisations, big and small, but only ever one Druchi civilisation. As thus, even if you have one Ushorun and 5 Konrads, you could point to the Strigoi and say 'Well, Vampire rule isn't that bad'.

Although
We are comparing it to the Druuchi.

Perhaps the nature of the comparison is the real unfair advantage.
 
Rafin said:
IIRC Ushoran was one of the more even handed progenitor vampires and Strygos was a functional country that even now still has Humans pining for its good old days. Sure, vampires kill and eat a certain amount of humans and thus wean themselves off of seeing them as remotely equal very fast, but that doesn't mean they are literally treated or seen like cattle. You wouldn't train your cattle into a functional military, or have some of your cattle be trusted tax collectors or mint coins for your cattle to use and run an economy with.

I mean my whole basis for my opinion that vampire rule is better than Druchii rule was that vampires do not usually practice cattle slavery. And Strygos was the least bad of the vampire run states in history.
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The usual term is "chattel" slavery (referring to the form of slavery typical in, say, the pre-Civil War American south)

Mopman43 said:
Yeah, my guess would be the original people of Mourkhain had their own script.
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Thinking on it, I suppose the way to find out would be to see if the Strigany have their own script.

Or… Boney, was there writing on the Strygos coins?
 
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Droman said:
SNIP
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Far as I know, the G word is a slur.

EDIT: I'm aware of the fact that the word came from a misconception that the Romani people came from Egypt, and that Warhammer openly utilises this misconception as truth in their real world comparison as another variant of their usual racial insensitivity, but I'm still not sure we should be using the word.
 
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