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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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My personal pet theory is that the five runes on Bok are actually two sets of three with one common rune bridging them. That common rune is directly on the boundary between a liminal realm and the aethyric structure of Bok, with the rest of one rune set in the liminal helping anchor Bok to reality, and the other rune set being completed in the Aethyr. So they could be the key to unlock Kragg favor and more importantly Kragg Headpats.


I'm batting like zero for lots on theory crafting, but I have a good feeling about this one.
 
Something else to consider:

Two of the three Tributary rituals we have explicitly interact with the liminal.

The third relies on the presence of a specific nature spirit.

We've been told that Cadeath is on the boundary of being both dryad and elf, and she seems to have a personal liminal realm.

The Hedgewalk spell that projects your soul (into the liminal boundary?) allows you to interact with spirits.

This makes me wonder if nature spirits inherently either dwell in the liminal boundary, or if they, or perhaps more powerful examples of them, have their own personal liminal realm, and the third tributary ritual we have is hijacking the water spirit's one somehow.

If tributaries are inherently connected to the liminal, that might make it more likely that full blown leylines are something like liminal pathways as well.

If Earthbound spirits are creatures of the liminal, that might open up new options for Apparition binding or control.

Similarly, the influence(a) that creates the Winds from raw Aethyr might be spirits or something similar that live in the liminal.
 
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Mopman43 said:
Not sure why you're talking about Mathilde's soul, the post you're replying to was about putting it in a Gyro.
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Because Boney has already answered statements on how it should actually be possible to attach one to our soul (if risky), but I don't think he's answered any on actually trying to bind it to a physical object (although I guess that could be an oversight on our part for not asking).

We know that a Dreaming Wood is the liminal realm of a forest's trees' collective souls, after being very steeped in magic. If forests weren't immobile, I imagine Dreaming Woods could move around, much like Cadaeth seems to carry a pocket dimension with her. So attaching to a soul is at least a way we have confirmed is doable.
 
Parabola said:
Adding onto what others have said (Battle Magic, theurgy, becoming a dragon), I wouldn't say Mathilde is getting uniquely powerful or skilled just yet. The Empire has a lot of assorted competent people and Boney has asserted that she is not considered the shrewdest, wisest, killiest, savviest, puissantest, or most learned just yet. Well-rounded, perhaps, but there's many people in the Empire who have spent their whole lives focusing on a single thing and they have Mathilde beat on those. I think she really needs to consolidate her unfinished skills at some point - she has several basic skills at 1/3 or 2/3, and getting them up to at least the basic level of proficiency would give her a pretty decent boost of stats.
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In a lot of ways, I think we are hitting the wall of 'well-rounded'.

learning has not moved an inch in a long time because actions/training/traitsthat would give an 10 learning character a global +1, is too intuitive for an 29 learning genius.

It might allow them to actually do the thing involved: e.g engineering. Or give a more situational bonus. But their passed the point of the trait making them 'smarter'.

It's limited to hard/unique traits now.

'Bibliography'and 'Old World history' being examples of 'hard' traits.

Bibliography because you need to build your own book collection to the point of needing it and figure out how to do it yourself, or have access to a large library and secret guild training.

And Old World history because you need to cobble it together from multiple different nations POVs from a bunch of different languages.

Their both traits that need time, work and resources to finish. So that's why they are 'high level +1 skill' traits.

The same is starting with Martial, the master style should give us a +1, and the next step(or two) in gun as well; But I don't think starting something like 'polearms' will anymore. (It would give us a bonus when using polearms maybe, but not the global +1)

It the past, when mathy was a wimp, it would have, because getting better at fighting in general was the name of the game. But Mathy knows how to fight polearms now, so she is only learning how to use them.

I think the thread really needs to choose if we want to continue the well rounded road or push for +35 in learning by focusing on it at the expense of ignoring other skills.
 
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We probably do have access to training that would give higher skills, but it mightc as said above, be hard.

For example, if Mathilde learns multiple arcane languages and studies the similarities and differences between them, a Comparative Arcane Linguistics skill might give a global increase to Learning.

Similarly, if we get taught Gazul's Lore about the soul and elven lore about the soul, that might combine with her Morrite and Necromantic Learning to produce a global +1. Possibly the same if we combine multiple sources of knowledge on the liminal boundary and its manipulation.

On a more basic level, something like getting a really good dwarven mathematics teacher might be generally applicable enough to give a global +1 to Learning as it might be generally applicable if it includes things like statistics.

This does make me wonder how concepts of statistical and probabilistic uncertainty interact with Mathilde's understanding of Ulgu. What would she make of a confidence interval, or Bayesian conditional probabilities.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
In a lot of ways, I think we are hitting the wall of 'well-rounded'.

learning has not moved an inch in a long time because actions/training/traitsthat would give an 10 learning character a global +1, is too intuitive for an 29 learning genius.

It might allow them to actually do the thing involved: e.g engineering. Or give a more situational bonus. But their passed the point of the trait making them 'smarter'.

It's limited to hard/unique traits now.

'Bibliography'and 'Old World history' being examples of 'hard' traits.

Bibliography because you need to build your own book collection to the point of needing it and figure out how to do it yourself, or have access to a large library and secret guild training.

And Old World history because you need to cobble it together from multiple different nations POVs from a bunch of different languages.

Their both traits that need time, work and resources to finish. So that's why they are 'high level +1 skill' traits.
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While I agree that improving stats in general is probably harder the better you become at them, we also haven't exactly sought out other presumable Learning skills. No blacksmithing, engineering, or study of physiology and autopsy. I don't mean that Mathilde should take those (I don't think it'd be in line with her character), but it's something to consider. And being that they are Learning skills, I imagine they're much harder to pick up passively.
 
I was dubious about the idea of doing a liminal realm followup action, but I think I've come around to it.

Liminal realms have come up a lot as of late, and frankly I expect this pattern to continue. Sure, there's only so many things we know for sure do liminal realm stuff, but the list of things that Might Potentially Have To Do With Liminal Realm Stuff is so big that I expect we'll inevitably have to do something in relation with them eventually.

So, the fact that learning more about liminal realms has good odds of being useful combined with it being an improvement for the AV book I think puts me in favor of it.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
There is prestige in being the one to solve it. To go down in history as 'the one that solved it.'
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We already did though. We had a one in a million spot of luck, researched it a bit, and figured out how to produce survivable liminal pockets. Everything past this has much-diminished returns in fame and rep.

pucflek said:
Cool workshop, greater understanding of magic, insight into nature of souls(?).
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We have the cool workshop, greater understanding of magic is nice but available down all research paths, and insight into the nature of souls is entirely speculative on your part.

Alratan said:
ascension project
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Ah. I guess I'm interested in Mathilde the human, not Mathilde the incarnate avatar of ulgu and thread minmaxing. I'll read litrpg or xianxia if I want the slow slide into power uber allis.

Her relationships- her loyalties and how they are divided- that is the core of the emotional investment here for me. I don't want that sidelined, the way a massive power gap does.

Alratan said:
This makes me wonder if nature spirits inherently either dwell in the liminal boundary, or if they, or perhaps more powerful examples of them, have their own personal liminal realm, and the third tributary ritual we have is hijacking the water spirit's one somehow.

If tributaries are inherently connected to the liminal, that might make it more likely that full blown leylines are something like liminal pathways as well.
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I think you are reading a bit too much into this. Technically, even the winds are liminal if you are going by the definition of not-quite in reality but not yet in the warp. We know bits of the liminal barrier can be lifted into reality to cut (mindrazor, pendulum) and we know that spells can punch down into parts of the liminal barrier that don't work the way reality does (pit of shades). We know that there's a lot of different lore about realms, both of gods and not, that exist within the barrier between the warp and the world.

So I think we have to regard the liminal as an onion, basically, and anything non-physical that spells or magic affects goes through some layer of that medium. The real question, to me, is less about punching though into a liminal realm as it is 'which methods create survivable dimensions?' and 'what are the relative costs in time, power, and safety of the different methods?'

Cutting chanels through this medium, as tributaries and other liminal paths do, would also seen to be a different thing than inflating a pocket between layers like the grey college or our experiment. It might explain why the two are different subjects in our library.
 
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Think any "ascension" would require taking a good look at her soul and her arcane marks, and even then it's probably less apotheosis and more becoming a terrifying shadow/mist being.

I'm not really feeling the liminal hype, but that might be me being contrarian since it has been brought up so much. Feels to me like something we check off in order to write the big book on AV.

Bags of holding or magnificent mansion spells doesn't seem like something she really needs. Though might be interesting if we accidentally hook it up to the realm of an order god.
 
henkalv said:
Bags of holding or magnificent mansion spells doesn't seem like something she really needs.
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The only facet of it I find interesting would be if we could get one in the Gyrocarriage that means we could have an entire portable lab/house/etc, with obviously all the caveats about if it would actually work.
 
So some of the legends have Ranald gain immortality by drinking from Shallya's holy chalice, which some people believe is actually the Holy Grail. You know which God is deeply connected with the Holy Grail, the Lady of the Lake.
 
henkalv said:
I'm not really feeling the liminal hype, but that might be me being contrarian since it has been brought up so much. Feels to me like something we check off in order to write the big book on AV.
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Personally that's my reason for wanting it done. I want our big book of snake juice to be complete, and for me that means giving the aspiring snake juice salesman the tools to safely use all aspects.

We probably could just say "using av to make liminal realms carries the risks of daemonic incursions, find a safe way beforehand." But that just feels negligent. I want it to say "av can open liminal realms and here is how you secure them for further work."
 
Imugi said:
So some of the legends have Ranald gain immortality by drinking from Shallya's holy chalice, which some people believe is actually the Holy Grail. You know which God is deeply connected with the Holy Grail, the Lady of the Lake.
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What source says people connect Shallya's chalice in the Ranald myth with the Lady's grail?
 
Imugi said:
So some of the legends have Ranald gain immortality by drinking from Shallya's holy chalice, which some people believe is actually the Holy Grail. You know which God is deeply connected with the Holy Grail, the Lady of the Lake.
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Man, I need to get my mind out of the gutter. Cause that is not where my mind went when considering someone "drinking from the goddess' holy chalice".
 
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Malekith's Mom Has Got It Going On
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    • Boney said:
    Malekith can't you see? You're not the Druchii for me.
    I know it might be wrong but I'm in love with Malekith's mom.
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    Malekith's mom has got it going on
    Malekith's mom has got it going on
    Malekith's mom has got it going on
    Malekith's mom has got it going on
    Malekith, can I come over while your rule?
    (While you rule)
    We can hang slaves over the shark pool
    (Over the shark pool)
    Did your mom get back from her vengeance trip?
    (Vengeance trip)
    Do you think she'd be impressed by the size of my ship?
    (Size of my ship)
    You know I'm not the Asur toy that I used to be
    I'm a dark elf now, lady, can't you see?
    Malekith's mom has got it going on
    She's all I want, and I've murdered for so long
    Malekith can't you see?
    You're not the Druchii for me.
    I know it might be wrong but I'm in love with Malekith's mom.
    Malekith's mom has got it going on
    Malekith's mom has got it going on
    Malekith, do you remember when I raided Khans?
    (Raided Khans)
    Your mom came out with a heart dipped in bronze
    (Dipped in bronze)
    I could tell she liked me by the way she glared
    (The way she glared)
    And the way she said, "You missed a tribe over there"
    (Tribe over there)
    And I know that you think it's just a heresy
    But since you're trapped in the aethyr, your mom could use an elf like me
    Malekith's mom has got it going on
    She's all I want, and I've murdered for so long
    Malekith, can't you see, you're not the Druchii for me
    I know it might be wrong
    But I'm in love with Malekith's mom

    (According to Lord Magister Kupfer, in traditional Naggaroth performances this is when the chorus inevitably gets interrupted as the singer is tortured to death. Morathi adores the song, and Malekith can't stand it, so the compromise they reached is that she can have it performed as much as she wants, and he can take as long killing each singer as he wants, with this normally resulting in the song only being played for her on special occasions due to the time it takes to train the singers to Morathi's exacting standards)



    Stacy's Mom, by Bowling For Soup.
     
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    • consequences said:
    (According to Lord Magister Kupfer, in traditional Naggaroth performances this is when the chorus inevitably gets interrupted as the singer is tortured to death. Morathi adores the song, and Malekith can't stand it, so the compromise they reached is that she can have it performed as much as she wants, and he can take as long killing each singer as he wants, with this normally resulting in the song only being played for her on special occasions due to the time it takes to train the singers to Morathi's exacting standards)
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    The only known singer to escape capture is, of course, Alith Anar, as part of an elaborate ploy to empty the treasuries of Naggarond while Malekith was distracted.
     
    Following up on my previous post, I've actually been daydreaming over what new mundane Learning topic Mathilde would learn if she had to. What do you guys think makes most sense for her, in-character? What subject would interest her to, say, spend a few months at the University of Altdorf for, and be expected to be useful down the line, whether for research or in general?

    Given how scattershot Mathilde's researching and publishing history has been over the years, I have to think that maybe she'd double down on history, or go do something like medicine. Or, if we want something less practical, biology in general, or physics?

    Thoughts?
     
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    Parabola said:
    Following up on my previous post, I've actually been daydreaming over what new mundane Learning topic Mathilde would learn if she had to. What do you guys think makes most sense for her, in-character? What subject would interest her to, say, spend a few months at the University of Altdorf for, and be expected to be useful down the line, whether for research or in general?

    Given how scattershot Mathilde's researching and publishing history has been over the years, I have to think that maybe she'd double down on history, or go do something like medicine. Or, if we want something less practical, biology in general, or physics?

    Thoughts?
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    Languages. A lot of them. How else are we supposed to make use of those foreign books? (And any other writing we may come across) Or have adventures in those places, for that matter.
     
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