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The something being 'a miscast'. Keep in mind that 'suddenly demons' is a result on the normal miscast table.
I guess we need to investigate how severe this is going forward but a permanent/long lasting weakening in the fabric of reality isn't something we can just write off. Iirc the most comparable example in quest was when the templars closed off an entire wing of Eagle Castle for a generation.
Dwarfs (who do not have wizards and thus a means to punch holes in reality) would somehow have a means to fix them. Yes Gazul might, but the dwarfs know vastly more then their ancestors, that is kind of their hat in the setting, they are a fallen people which has lost the wisdom of their ancestors.

Also since this feels aimed at me I wasn't suggesting having Kragg magic up a Golden Age Solution on the fly to runically fix everything but like. Get some other Runsmithes to build a kill zone around the incident site, secure it from outside trespassers and build us a new lab. Maybe throw a Rune Of Valaya on the walls in the extreme.

I get how this situation has spooked the thread something fierce, but there are more options than "never ever tell anyone or do anything to reveal this and take it our graves" and "throw ourselves at the GC's mercy and spill every secret we've ever kept and beg them to fix it."
 
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To be honest I am not worried about the 'Fated' part of the Fated trait, Mortkin, an actual no kidding chaos champion who was offered the Crown of the Everchosen after his vengeance was done was able to spit in the eye of the four and choose to die on his terms. I think we can be assured to do that and I also trust SV to choose the choices farthest from serving chaos even if it kills us, what I worry about is the Chaos mutation on our soul doing something else funky in the presence of Tzeenchian Sorcery ???.

I would like to note the implication that it isn't actually a mutation;

The assumption that Tzeentch, God of Sorcery, needs to mutate Mathilde for Tzeentchian sorcery to like her, is one that perhaps could use some reexamination.

Its Tzeentch basically putting Mathilde on a whitelist. Which is worrying, because it implies direct attention, but it didn't directly fuck with her soul.

And reacting to someone threatening to set us on fire at some point in the future by immediately turning around and setting ourself on fire first is maybe a rash course of action. Let's not.

Seriously, taking up necromancy or becoming a vampire is just as much of an overreaction as immediately killing ourselves, and exactly as much of a terrible idea. We aren't mutated, we aren't any kind of damned, we just got some attention from a bird. Which, as Algard pointed out long ago, was pretty much inevitable given that Mathilde's central goal is to 'change the world we live in'.
 
The Grey College has some way to 'check if you are OK' after a meeting with a demon. A meeting which Mathilde as a Lady Magister somehow does not know about
It doesn't have to be a device like the one Algard used for his surprise demon check.
But the Grey college (or the light college, if it comes to that) has people that have been fighting Demons, Lords of Change included, for longer than Mathilde has been alive.
Talking to them might help defuse any word games that Mathilde might fall for due to being personally involved with the situation, or due to being a Grey Wizard (if we talk to the light order).
 
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It doesn't have to be a device like the one Algard used for his surprise demon check.
But the Grey college (or the light college, if it comes to that) has people that have been fighting Demons, Lords of Change included, for longer than Mathilde has been alive.
Talking to them might help defuse any word games that Mathilde might fall for due to being personally involved with the situation, or due to being a Grey Wizard.

If we tell them the words than we have by definition spread the demon's influence more than it already was. I really do not see how this could lead to a better outcome.
 
It doesn't have to be a device like the one Algard used for his surprise demon check.
But the Grey college (or the light college, if it comes to that) has people that have been fighting Demons, Lords of Change included, for longer than Mathilde has been alive.
Talking to them might help defuse any word games that Mathilde might fall for due to being personally involved with the situation, or due to being a Grey Wizard.
I don't see how they could help us in any way?

At worst the Colleges do actually have a way to mind-scan Mathilde for any Tzeentchian traps left, but that certainly won't go without hitting our other secrets we really want to keep.
 
Okay, so not taking into account the thread discussion, I just want to directly address @Boney.

When the diceroll for whose attention had been garnered came up Tzeentchian, I knew I had the opportunity for something potent to happen. I'm glad that I've hit the mark, and I thank you for your words of appreciation.

For the longest time I wanted a villain who could truly test Mathilde's chops and really get in her head. Someone who proves a threat to Mathilde and serves as an obstacle who she keeps thinking about because they had a point. Not some pathetic wannabe who flaunts their status out in the open despite supposedly being on the down-low, or a powerful enemy that we manage to luck ourself into exterminating early. This isn't a knock on your writing ability, you make wonderful characters, but the limited pov of this quest and the fact that you choose to not represent things in traditional narrative structure can tend to make underwhelming plot points at times, and this comes through with some of the villains who, due to dice rolls and the situation, end up being underwhelming such that the thread spends the entire aftermath bragging and self-congratulating itself on how awesome Mathilde is, rather than focusing on the deadliness and power of the villain.

This is something I'm aware of, and to an extent have made the deliberate decision to allow. Someone who is careful and proactive can keep their area of influence clear of anything that is truly a threat to them, and the thread having put in the effort to make that happen is something I feel should be rewarded by letting them go relatively unthreatened, instead of punished by handwaving up a bigger threat. But the ripples Mathilde has left in her wake have accumulated, and she has made the decision to leave the safety of isolation that her home on the edge of the world offered her. The big fish in a medium-sized pond has returned to the ocean, where there be monsters.
 
Another reason why I think there probably isn't a quick fix 'Talk to the College and they will fix the bobo' solution is because it would be vastly anticlimactic on a narrative level and just take all the air out of Chaos being an insidious threat. I do not think Boney would do that

Edit: Ninja'd by something adjacent to my point. :V
 
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Look I know it we all want to go into damage control and if people want to do placebo things like waste an action petting wolf fine, but I really do not think all these hopes of someone else having a solution will pan out. If they had a solution to things like this, if anyone did, the world would be a much better place
Oh no. Imagine wasting a precious AP on *checks notes* roleplaying our fictional character. The horror. /deadpan
 
Another reason why I think there probably isn't a quick fix 'Talk to the College and they will fix the bobo' solution is because it would be vastly anticlimactic on a narrative level and just take all the air out of Chaos being an insidious threat. I do not think Boney would do that

I don't want to get on your case because it'll just start shit but that's not really what everyone you disagree with is suggesting. It's what some are suggesting, sure, but theres more options in discussion than that and keeping this to our grave.

Personally I'm leaning towards the "Hey Algard, I got confirmation the Changer is interested in me via a bit of a close call. I'm certain I'm not compromised, I didn't break any articles of magic, and im taking steps to clean up the fallout, but I'm feeling [rattled/spooked/empowered/unaffected]. Here's a very broad overview of the methodology that led to my close call so no one else repeats it, I'm willing to answer any questions that don't involve any of our allies' secrets" report. Under the faith that Algard will think "she's an LM, she wouldn't be an LM if I didn't trust her loyalties and self awareness. I already predicted the Changer is interested in her and her being [whatever] by her close call tracks, so I'll make a note and tell Regimand to pop in and then get back to work."
 
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Its not really about being a clean fix, but about giving relevant information to people/institutions that we can trust.
Besides if no one had any idea what to to against chaos everyone would be completely corrupt already.
 
I don't want to get on your case because it'll just start shit but that's not really what everyone you disagree with is suggesting. It's what some are suggesting, sure, but theres more options in discussion than that and keeping this to our grave.

I do not think they are. As far as I can see there are three prongs to the argument to talk:
  • The College needs to know X we should tell them so they can prepare. By counter to this is that I do not think we can extract a net positive out of the words of a demon
  • The College/the Dwarfs can help. Counter to this is I do not think they can all the more so now that I saw the post confirming it's not a mutation, they have no way to affect Tzeench's sway over sorcery
  • It is what a loyal person would do. This is where my argument is weaker I think since it's accurate, a loyal person would trust their superiors more than themselves. I just do not think that is a good idea because of the previous two arguments
If I am misrepresenting someone I apologize.

Its not really about being a clean fix, but about giving relevant information to people/institutions that we can trust.
Besides if no one had any idea what to to against chaos everyone would be completely corrupt already.

Not all forms of chaos influence are equal, a demon talking to you is rather extreme and it may well be that the solution is 'say nothing and do not let it affect your thinking'. In which case giving the tainted information to people we trust is a mistake.
 
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I do not think they are. As far as I can see there are three prongs to the argument to talk:
  • The College needs to know X we should tell them so they can prepare. By counter to this is that I do not think we can extract a net positive out of the words of a demon
  • The College/the Dwarfs can help. Counter to this is I do not think they can all the more so now that I saw the post confirming it's not a mutation, they have no way to affect Tzeench's sway over sorcery
  • It is what a loyal person would do. This is where my argument is weaker I think since it's accurate, a loyal person would trust their superiors more than themselves. I just do not think that is a good idea because of the previous two arguments
If I am misrepresenting someone I apologize.
I just edited my previous post to elaborate, but confirming that Tzeentch has plans for us like Algard predicted and letting him know we had a close call we will recover from seems reasonable. No metagaming with demon knowledge, and we try and forget what it said, but we also don't try to bury it.
 
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I trust Gunnars enough to tell him, whether we should tell anyone else remains to be seen.
 
Another reason why I think there probably isn't a quick fix 'Talk to the College and they will fix the bobo' solution is because it would be vastly anticlimactic on a narrative level and just take all the air out of Chaos being an insidious trait. I do not think Boney would do that
I don't see how they could help us in any way?

At worst the Colleges do actually have a way to mind-scan Mathilde for any Tzeentchian traps left, but that certainly won't go without hitting our other secrets we really want to keep.
Because I think the Demon's words were not magical. Just finely calibrated to mess with Mathilde's (and the thread's) paranoia.
There are so many layers of possible interpretation, that the sword of judgement gets stuck in.

Talking to the colleges won't fix it: Mathilde will still have the Fated trait.
It probably won't give them new insight into how chaos selects the Everchosen.
It probably won't put Mathilde on any more watch lists than she's already on.

But keeping everything secret, and being paranoid about everything she's ever achieved and everyone she's ever associated with is what the demon wants Mathilde to do.
Have tea with Elrisse, and set up some not-so hypothetical scenarios, for example about Drycha being a potential Everchosen, get her point of view, and then extrapolate about the rest.
 
I just edited my previous post to elaborate, but confirming that Tzeentch has plans for us like Algard predicted and letting him know we had a close call we will recover from seems reasonable.

OK but then we are back to the utility of sharing the information, I mean it's not like anyone else has AV to replicate this miscast. This was the result of a meta-crit. So what does Algard get out of this other than less trust for Mathilde.

Because I think the Demon's words were not magical. Just finely calibrated to mess with Mathilde's (and the thread's) paranoia.
There are so many layers of possible interpretation, that the sword of judgement gets stuck in.

Talking to the colleges won't fix it: Mathilde will still have the Fated trait.
It probably won't give them new insight into how chaos selects the Everchosen.
It probably won't put Mathilde on any more watch lists than she's already on.

But keeping everything secret, and being paranoid about everything she's ever achieved and everyone she's ever associated with is what the demon wants Mathilde to do.
Have tea with Elrisse, and set up some not-so hypothetical scenarios, for example about Drycha being a potential Everchosen, get her point of view, and then extrapolate about the rest.

I am not suggesting paranoia, if anything I am suggesting the opposite, ignore the demon's words in word and need, form no conclusions based on them and that includes do not share them. This also means we the players do not attempt to metagame what we know about the Everchosen Bowl using the Daemon's words.
 
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OK but then we are back to the utility of sharing the information, I mean it's not like anyone else has AV to replicate this miscast. This was the result of a meta-crit. So what does Algard get out of this other than less trust for Mathilde>
IMO don't try to metagame with what the demon told us. Revisit AV experimentation after overhauling our methodology and probably getting a second pair of eyes on it if you're so committed to it but like.

This is a Nat 1.

This is an L.

It seems to me that you're trying to squeeze some kind of benefit from an absolute defeat, when we should be focusing on minimizing the damage. I don't see how letting our boss know that we had a close call with a demon and that Tzeentch likes us, two things he's implicitly and explicitly told us will happen will irreparable damage his trust in us.
 
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I don't disagree with your broader point, but there is a scarred puncture wound in reality smack dab in the middle of our lab. Thats some pretty damning evidence of something at least, and if we do our due diligence to properly secure it (which imo includes getting Thorek involved at the minimum) there's no reliable way to prevent the GC from learning of its existence.

And getting caught trying to cover all this up is probably the worst thing that can happen.

To your second point, trying to back Tzeentch into a "semi controlled environment with lowish stakes" seems like a very effective way to create an uncontrolled environment with cataclysmic stakes. And going out of our way to start poking Tzeentch grizzlies all of a sudden, once again isn't a great look.

That's evidence we made a liminal realm then destroyed and sealed it afterwards. We can and should tell people about that.

That does not involve telling them about the daemon or what it said.

We should be sharing the knowledge about liminal realm manufacture and would do without the daemon's interference. After checking with the people who may know more about liminal realms first.
 
IMO don't try to metagame with what the demon told us. Revisit AV experimentation after overhauling our methodology but like.

This is a Nat 1.

This is an L.

It seems to me that you're trying to squeeze some kind of benefit from an absolute defeat, when we should be focusing on minimizing the damage. I don't see how letting our boss know that we had a close call with a demon and that Tzeentch likes us, two things he's implicitly and explicitly predicted will happen will irreparable damage his trust in us.

I mean... yes don't metagame I agree? Like I do not get your point.

I am not saying that it will do irreparable damage, I am not even saying it will necessarily to any damage, Algard has free will too after all. But the only thing is can do is damage, in other words 'the only winning move is not to play', something both Mathilde's IC characters and we the players as people used to move forward and influence the world are disinclined to do which makes it such a great temptation
 
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I wonder how many magisters get talked to by Birdbrain while taking a shit. I mean, it is the ideal time to do so. And without smartphones, they can't ignore him.
 
We should tell Belegar and Kragg about the wrinkle in reality in our lab. Not because we think it's an issue - apparently it's gummed up pretty good - but just in case Kragg has some runic precaution he'd like to take.

We should tell the Grey Colleges that we've been contacted by a daemon claiming to be one of Tzeentch's eyes, and volunteer no further information unless specifically asked about it by whoever's giving us a quasi-medical checkup afterwards. Everchosenbowl is plausibly important, but IC we have absolutely no confirmation of it beyond a daemon's words. It's fundamentally not trustworthy.

No one in the thread is even slightly tempted by the daemon's "offer", and given that Mathilde's thoughts tend to reflect the thread's, I'm not worried about it.

The new trait is spooky, but it seems like it's a reflection of Tzeentch telling magic to stop giving us such a hard time, rather than a mutation of Mathilde's soul or the like, so I suspect an in-depth examination of our soul will turn up nothing; we should do one regardless.

AV liminal realms probably aren't inherent beacons to daemons, but I'd really like to figure out how to secure them before writing the book on AV. Also, to see if we can possibly make them mobile, attaching them to something more mobile than a tower wall. Whilst I can't think of much else we'd directly use them for except a Bag Of Holding, I suspect this is a failure of imagination on my part.

At the very least, a way to create and study liminal realms in their own right seems really really cool, and I sort of regret it's been overshadowed by Birdbrains, but them's the dice.

Also, if we weren't already writing a book to encompass all of AV, this alone would be a Shattering paper:
You peer through the hole, and begin extending the instruments you always have at hand for these sorts of experiments to gauge what's within. Temperature, normal. Air pressure, normal. Humidity, normal. Everything about the inside of this realm is entirely normal. Of all the various states of being, of the infinite variability of reality the Winds have apparently created new reality that is entirely typical for this place.

So what does that indicate? That when forced into the barrier between reality and unreality, Vitae undergoes a transformation into... what, into nothing? No, into empty space where previously there was none. There's nothing there, but there is a there there to contain that nothing, where previously it was not. How? Well, Vitae was the substance of the realm of Aethyr, so transplanted to where there was no realm, it creates some more. But what you're looking it is certainly no Aethyr in miniature, is it? Well, no, you don't know the ground state of the Aethyr, you only know it as it is with the many Gods in residence. It could be that without them, the Aethyr would just be emptiness? But isn't the Aethyr inherently psychoreactive? This little pocket you've created doesn't appear to be. So it's not mimicking the Aethyr, it's instead mimicking reality? Could it have been imbued with... reality-ness from its time as Vitae? Or was this tiny, nascent realm of Chaos overwhelmed by the weight of a much larger reality through the pinhole that the Vitae had escaped through?

No. You've tested Vitae in every way imaginable and know that it is unreactive, its nature unchanged from the moment it bled through into reality. This effect must rely on the inherent properties of the Winds it created. But that would mean that when Winds are presented with a blank slate and transform into a realm to fill it, they birth normality. But that makes no sense - the Winds are the energies of Chaos, aren't they? Well, no, not quite, that's why they're legal when Chaos Sorcery very much isn't. The Winds all represent facets of the real - life and death, light and shadow, passion and instinct, solidity and ephemerality. Mainstream theory is that this is the energies of Chaos having the nature of reality imprinted upon it when too far from the attention of the beings that command it.

And there is no weight of reality here. Your lab is magically isolated from the outside world, and the Aethyr was forced into a space between realms before it transformed. Placed equidistant between real and unreal and isolated from the pressure of existence to impose a decision upon it, Aethyr still became Winds and the Winds still retained the nature of reality.

Which means that the Winds can't be born of the mere inertia of what already is. Reality is being imposed upon Chaos by something other than reality.
 
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My view here is that we don't know what the daemon's agenda was here, or what it was trying to accomplish.

We do know we're dealing with a precognitive enemy, so it could easily be trying to mess with second order effects. What it actually wants could be for us to say something to someone else and for that to change their behaviour at some key juncture in the future that advances their plan.

The something we say could be relatively innocuous, just the wrong word at the wrong time.

Or it could be even more subtle, that the time they're meeting with us to talk about this means another meeting that would have been important doesn't happen or is delayed.

I referrred to For Want of a Nail earlier. The only way to avoid that scenario is to do literally nothing differently than if the daemon had never appeared and the creation of the liminal realm and it's subsequent sealing all went well.

That means telling no one anything ever about the daemon, and taking no action based on its words. It's basically a limited form of quarantine. We have to quarantine the information.

Yes, resisting the temptation is hard. That's what makes it a strong temptation.

Also, completely ignoring the daemon as if it was irrelevant should piss the daemon off the most.
 
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Some more thoughts and concerns.

The ??? effect from Fated may not be a static effect. I would not be surprised if it's intended as a means for the Plotter to snare their hooks ever deeper into Mathilde.

The Waystone project went conspicuously unmentioned, but even if that is out of ignorance rather than preference or verbal craftsmanship, any consistent attention will not leave it that way for long. I would not be surprised to see a Chaos Champion showing up at our/Laurelorn's doorstep soon as the next bracket in the EverBowl.

(On the bright side of the above, it does provide a very good motive for us to be in the sights of the Plotter should we tell anyone. Of course the Four would take an active interest any anyone actively working to upend the status quo of slow and crumbling decay.)

Maybe this will explain to Mathilde Sigmar's absence.
Honestly... between this, and the overarching fact that one of The Four is now actively trying to turn Mathilde against all she cares for, I'm becoming tempted to start reconciling with Sigmar. Though at this point my opinion on the nature of that is still very much, "This should at least be a set of actions or a mini-arc."

Because honestly, I would like for Mathilde to be convinced to side with the gods of the Empire in general and Sigmar specifically not by their strength, but by their limits. In a "They stood besides us as best they could, even when they were weak, so I will stand stand besides them until they can be strong again,"/"Chaos may be strong, but Our gods do not need strength; They have us," kind of way.
 
When the diceroll for whose attention had been garnered came up Tzeentchian, I knew I had the opportunity for something potent to happen. I'm glad that I've hit the mark, and I thank you for your words of appreciation.
The dice really know how to keep things dramatic, that's for sure.

I can't imagine the other three could have had the impact this did. Maybe Chaos Undivided, out of sheer capacity to know more together than individually, but even then I imagine it would have leaned in more on the Tournament.
 
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