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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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deathofrats0808 said:
It's an old theme. There's a prophecy in, I think Hinduism? about someone who can't be killed inside or outside, during the day or night, by man or woman, weapon or beast. And then somethign really really specific happens and he dies. Don't remember the whole thing though.
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That's the tale of Narasimha, one of Vishnu's avatars, killing the demon/Asura Hiranyakashipu. By my understanding this is the full of what he asks and receives from a boon from Brahma:

"Grant me that I not die within any residence or outside any residence, during the daytime or at night, nor on the ground or in the sky. Grant me that my death not be brought about by any weapon, nor by any human being or animal. Grant me that I not meet death from any entity, living or nonliving created by you. Grant me, further, that I not be killed by any demigod or demon or by any great snake from the lower planets."

Then later, because this is that sort of story, Vishnu shows up and kills him in his avatar as Narasimha, who is a lion-man (neither human nor beast); at twilight (neither day nor night); holds him on his knees or between his thighs (neither on ground or on sky); at the threshold of a courtyard (neither inside nor outside any residence); and uses his nails (not a weapon, and for that matter neither animate nor inanimate) to pierce his stomach. And of course, being Vishnu, he is not an entity created by Brahma, or any demigod or demon or great snake.

Mopman43 said:
I think the use of 'of noble blood' would specifically point to needing a heritage of nobility, not just 'has been declared a noble'.
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I'm inclined to think it refers to literal noble blood. From the Drycha incident, we know that she smelled it on Boris despite not really being able to tell apart humans that well, and Paranoth told us royal blood is always potent.

...And even though he's all bones and presumably no blood, Nagash still fits as the one who might kill this dark king: the prophecy specifies that it's the firstborn son of someone with noble blood, not someone who themself has it. But as has been noted, there's no shortage of firstborn sons of nobles who may end up learning a sorcerous power of darkest magic.
 
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deathofrats0808 said:
Deeply depends on timeline. Could range anywhere from thinking the other is foolish, to snobbery, to outright war.
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This, pretty much. Even just with Noldor and Asur, it could go as well as 'Elrond and the Everqueen have a nice chat, enjoy some tea and biscuits', and as poorly as 'Fëanor and Caledor II start a dick-waving contest resulting in previously unimaginable levels of collateral damage'.
 
Boney said:
Is this what we have become? one corner of your mind asks. Robbing the widow of a comrade in arms?
This is what we have always been, another counters. We have done worse to achieve a fraction of the good that much gold could accomplish, and will do so again.
To at least consider it is what we seek to be, a third muses. A Grey Wizard weighs all possibilities, not just the nice ones.

You absently push a gold coin around the table, your attention turned inwards as you observe in fascination as parts of your mind war against each other.
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while i know boney already told me off about assumptions, but with hindsight, I can't help but wonder if the first two lines were the Widow and Ranald talking, and mathy just picking it up and turning it into her 'own' thoughts.

its just so different from how she usually thinks, and looks at her own thoughts, that even at the time people thought it was a little sus.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
while i know boney already told me off about assumptions, but with hindsight, I can't help but wonder if the first two lines were the Widow and Ranald talking, and mathy just picking it up and turning it into her 'own' thoughts.

its just so different from how she usually thinks, and looks at her own thoughts, that even at the time people thought it was a little sus.
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Maybe. This monologue happens in Laurelorn (or at least the other side of the Empire from Nuln), far from the Widow's turf. Not that she has to conform to mortal ideas of geography, of course, but it seems like gods do appreciate their holy places.

Rather than Ranald and her, it looks to me more like Ranald(Protector) and his buddies Ranald(Night Crawler) , Ranald(Deciever) , and Ranald(Gambler).

While the Protector is arguing with the Night Crawler about stealing from someone vulnerable, the Deceiver, worshipped by Grey Wizards, enjoys the dissonance.

That leaves the Gambler to play with a coin on the table.
 
Projectile said:
Maybe. This monologue happens in Laurelorn (or at least the other side of the Empire from Nuln), far from the Widow's turf. Not that she has to conform to mortal ideas of geography, of course, but it seems like gods do appreciate their holy places.

Rather than Ranald and her, it looks to me more like Ranald(Protector) and his buddies Ranald(Night Crawler) , Ranald(Deciever) , and Ranald(Gambler).

While the Protector is arguing with the Night Crawler about stealing from someone vulnerable, the Deceiver, worshipped by Grey Wizards, enjoys the dissonance.

That leaves the Gambler to play with a coin on the table.
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Maybe. Mathilde has noticed before when her thoughts are incongruous due to a god's influence. There was the Gork and Mork thing, of course, but more recently, there was her acting more wolf-like while chasing Alberich, and this bit from the Drycha incident.

Boney said:
Word reaches you throughout the day of a number of similar encounters, both from the krugs and from the Kreml Guard. All of them end similarly: with the spirit watchers being chased off by the expert aim of Ungol warriors. You wonder if that would dissuade the enemy, but you suppose by Asrai standards their aim would be rather mediocre. In any case, you're not just preventing proper scouting but also bleeding the enemy of scouts they can't replace, as Loren Arhain is no friend to Athel Loren.

You're just starting to wonder where that thought came from when the horns begin to blow. [...]
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Presumably this was Haletha.

I have to wonder if Mathilde ever catches herself thinking in Eltharin. Does that ever happen to you guys? I natively speak Spanish, but I actually tend to think a lot in English because of all the reading I do in it.
 
Parabola said:
Maybe. Mathilde has noticed before when her thoughts are incongruous due to a god's influence. There was the Gork and Mork thing, of course, but more recently, there was her acting more wolf-like while chasing Alberich, and this bit from the Drycha incident.


Presumably this was Haletha.

I have to wonder if Mathilde ever catches herself thinking in Eltharin. Does that ever happen to you guys? I natively speak Spanish, but I actually tend to think a lot in English because of all the reading I do in it.
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I find myself thinking in other languages when it relates to them. A recipe my mom gave me in Spanish. Wine I tend to think of in French. But most of my thinking is in English too.
 
So, I haven't really followed the conversation in a while, and I'm probably not going to yet, but I just had a completely insane idea in the shower I wanted to share.

Step One: consider whether Divine Powerstones could at all be a theoretical possibility.

Step Two. Take a bucket of AV to Altdorf and try to teach Heidi Powerstone theory with artificially created Ranald energy, since Mathilde can't touch it herself.

Step Three: laugh, because there's no way this would actually work, but damn if it wouldn't be funny.
 
Ericwinter said:
So, I haven't really followed the conversation in a while, and I'm probably not going to yet, but I just had a completely insane idea in the shower I wanted to share.

Step One: consider whether Divine Powerstones could at all be a theoretical possibility.

Step Two. Take a bucket of AV to Altdorf and try to teach Heidi Powerstone theory with artificially created Ranald energy, since Mathilde can't touch it herself.

Step Three: laugh, because there's no way this would actually work, but damn if it wouldn't be funny.
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Would we even need to use AV produced Ranald? They could just give her the divine energy Themselves probably.
 
dinomannitro6 said:
Would we even need to use AV produced Ranald? They could just give her the divine energy Themselves probably.
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I'm assuming Ranald either can't or won't toss a significant amount of power or focus at what's effectively mad science with his essence. In the completely theoretical scenario where this was attempted and succeeded, I would expect it to end in something like the Coin, albeit far lesser.

There's probably reasons gods don't hand things out like Willy nilly. Better to pony up the metaphorical cash ourself until we've got a proof of concept.
 
Dragonofelder said:
While we're on the topic, how do you think the Elves of Lotr and WHF would react to each other? Probably a lot of polite "Wtf", unless its the Druchi, in which case war happens.
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It depends who and when. Galadriel and Thranduil of LotR would probably go very well with the Eonir. They would be impressed with their manipulation of Laurelorn to meet their needs, and the Eonir would admire their. ability to keep unwanted strangers out. On the other hand, the Galadhrim and the Asrai would despise each other. The elves in the LotR are fundamentally good guys. But if we go for the Silmarillon's elves, that's a bit different…
 
Parabola said:
Maybe. Mathilde has noticed before when her thoughts are incongruous due to a god's influence. There was the Gork and Mork thing, of course, but more recently, there was her acting more wolf-like while chasing Alberich, and this bit from the Drycha incident.


Presumably this was Haletha.

I have to wonder if Mathilde ever catches herself thinking in Eltharin. Does that ever happen to you guys? I natively speak Spanish, but I actually tend to think a lot in English because of all the reading I do in it.
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I sometimes find myself thinking in English if it is about a subject that I mostly interact with in English.

On the matter of this being in some way a divine test between the faces of Ranald or Ranald and the Widow I have to say I am not convinced. I could see the Widow caring about us deciding to steal or 'steal' the money with credit because we did it in her backyard and it resonates, but I am not sure she would notice us doing what we are supposed to do by her metric, or care if she does. After all she does not have a reason to care about Mathilde or reward her more than her servants have already done and the sacrifice we are making here is.... not really that great. It's not like that gold was going to do much sitting in our account. About the greatest impact keeping it would have likely had would have been buying the Druchi books with is a dubious boon to say the least.

I think we should just be satisfied with dodging the divine bullet from the grumpy snow lady and move on
 
On the topic of LotR Witch King and him doom, there is an entire debate whether or not the prophesy means that he could not be killed by men or that he would not be. So there is that.
 
Mathilde is very good at noticing when her mind is being intruded upon, because she grew up in a college full of paranoid manipulators, and is actually a paranoid manipulator herself. It takes one to know one. Not even Slaanesh could fool Mathilde.

Hell, the only major time Mathilde has been successfully tricked (the Tindomiel deal) is because we were lacking important context and couldn't make an informed judgement.

I'm not sure if the mind division thing is a metaphor or not, and if it's a metaphor for her attunement to Ulgu or the nature of the quest, but I am fairly sure it's all her, and not some divine influence affecting her.
 
There is a quest where numenorians get to the Albion rather than Middle Earth when they flee their island.

The scene that sticks up to me is one Numenorian having a heart attack when faced with Dark Elves because holy shit evil elves.
 
K von Carstein said:
Do you have a link?🙂
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The Kings of Men: Lord of the Rings/Warhammer Fantasy CK II Quest

The Kings of Men: Lord of the Rings/Warhammer Fantasy CK II Quest INDEX
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The scene is somewhere towards the very end of the quest if you are looking for it.

Edit: this chapter.

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The Kings of Men: Lord of the Rings/Warhammer Fantasy CK II Quest

Omake: Warbook Of Numeronian Albion: The Island Of Opposites, segment 6.1 8. The Black Fleet and The Five Armies of Ruin, Legend of Sigmar Heldenhammer - There has been many a source of blame to be found and pointed at by historians, common man, dawi and elf alike, to answer how the...
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Parabola said:
I have to wonder if Mathilde ever catches herself thinking in Eltharin. Does that ever happen to you guys? I natively speak Spanish, but I actually tend to think a lot in English because of all the reading I do in it.
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I think in English, but that's because while my native language is Arabic, I'm much more comfortable and fluent in English. I have a seriously weak vocabulary, so thinking in Arabic would be hard because I lack the words to describe things.

Mathilde has many languages stored in her brain, but I believe that you only start thinking in another language when you're very used to it. For example, if she was constantly speaking in Khazalid during Karak Eight Peaks, which she was, for a dozen years, she'd be thinking in Khazalid from time to time.

But of course, Mathilde's thinking isn't exactly usual. She is irreversably altered by Ulgu and views things from all sorts of perspectives, sometimes in double think and contradiction. Sometimes she even goes into tangents in story about the differences between Reikspiel and Khazalid and Eltharin and dissecting words to understand the contextual intricacies and any subtle meanings laced into it.
 
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