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"The last you saw of me, I was embraced by the Shadowgave. And yet, you held on to enough money to repay me? As if I would someday descend from the Chaos Wastes at the head of an infernal host to demand reimbursement, and on that day you would not be found wanting? You found that notion credible enough to prepare for?"

"Yes."
 
"Hello Borek," you greet the orange-haired Dwarf, sitting by a bubbling pot over a fire on the riverbank. Not Thane Borek, not Borek Forkbeard. Just Borek, now.

Aww, we have to return our debt now.

"We call the Ancestor Gods the Ancestor Gods, because we once had gods who were not our Ancestors," he says in an oddly detached tone as he stares at the fire. "Long ago, far to the south, the old gods were our teachers and our wardens. But their numbers dwindled over time, and when the time was right we escaped, thanks to Grungni and Valaya and Grimnir. But some of those that followed did so not because they desired freedom or venerated our three leaders, but because they mourned their teachers who one day had stopped visiting, and remembered their Names, and knew that such things never truly die and must linger on somewhere. Karag Dum was founded by those who most mistrusted the old gods, and claimed a home with its back to the Chaos Wastes, as Chaos was the only force that could rival the old gods. We watched with suspicion as the Dawi turned their backs on a mountain range that could be mined for a thousand thousand years to spread to all corners of the Old World. Why Ekrund, pinned between the Badlands and the sea? Why Norsca, the shattered remnants of another prison? Why the Middle Mountains, desolate and cursed? Why risk everything to travel across the Dark Lands and the Great Ocean, often never to be heard from again?

"The southern Holds called us paranoid, even as history gave the horrible answers to our other two suspicions: Why Uzkulak? Why Tylos?

"One of the names we remembered was reshaped into Khsar, blowing across the deserts we had once fled across, feeding on the faith of the desert tribes of the Umgi as they built themselves into a great civilization. Then Elgi sorcery in Umgi hands carved corpses from the desert gods to be receptacles for the prayers of the dead, and the name sought refuge across the seas as Kavzar. But there it was betrayed, a betrayal that birthed a race of betrayers, and what was left of it after being thrice ripped from its domains was as close to death as such things can ever be. In pain and madness it found a fourth family in beings as broken as it was, and walked the world as Morghur, a meaningless bleat from the throat of a beast.

"But even after it had forgotten, we remembered its true name. As Chaos crept closer and threatened us with extinction, the founding truth of Karag Dum was reversed. The old gods are the only force that could rival Chaos, so Karag Dum called the least terrible of those known to it. Karag Dum called the being that was Shadowgave, that was city-father, and that was the desert wind, because the first thing it was, was the teacher and warden of the Dawi. So once more it teaches and it wards, and the skulls of Kurgan and the essence of Daemons sink into the sands that it rules.

"Chaos has swallowed Karag Dum, but every step down its gullet will extract a price in blood." He sighs, and glances at the axe he has still not relinquished his hold on. "I couldn't find it in myself to judge whether that was a grim victory to support, or a betrayal to condemn. Nor could I go down the path of the few Elders that still linger in Karag Dum, doing nothing but watching with hollow eyes and still tongues as their grandchildren go about their lives never knowing that their very souls have been reforged into weapons of spite against the Chaos Gods.

What.

You know what that's worth more then our debt.
 
Okay, is it just me being a little ignorant, or do the Dawi's ancient and terrible masters the sound like not just Old Ones but the Gods of Law?

Because it's not just the counterpart to Chaos or the Dawi rebelling against their old masters. The way Gor Dum is spoken as the least terrible of them... We'd heard of "Keys made of Crystal" before and folks brought up the implications, now I wonder if this is part of how Boney has rectified all that.

Making it such that the Gods of Law aren't so much beings that are a thing, but ones that were a thing, once upon a time, and after Chaos got the upper hand, this is simply how far they've all fallen.

EDIT, much later: It also occurs to me that said Keys made of Crystal first came up during the expedition arc. Foreshadowing that never panned out?
 
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[ ] Other (write in)
Specify what impression you want to imbue, or what culture you want to give Eike a new tie to.
[JK] Conspiracy
You still remember bits and pieces of the old cipher, enough to recreate it. Welcome her to the Lahmian conspiracy, the same way your own master must have done, and inscribe it on the inside of her eyelids.

No, wait, I have another one.

[JK] Asp
The glory of the Thorned One must be made known to your nascent apprentice, that she too may aid It in Its rise to power. Arrange a miscast to draw one of Its fellows to her.

Wait, just one last one.

[JK] Blood (Druchii)
You still have the token Daroir of Nagarythe gave you. Take it, and Eike too, to give her her first taste of combat in a controlled environment, against the Druchii rqiding Nagarythe.
 
I'm actually seriously considering religious, but I'm not sure it's a good idea.

Just as much as I'm not sure if dwarven is a good idea.

It's working for Mathilde, clearly, but Eike shouldn't just become a smol Mathilde without a hat.
Besides, it would leave her with some… Divided Loyalties.
*dramatic sting*
 
"The last you saw of me, I was embraced by the Shadowgave. And yet, you held on to enough money to repay me? As if I would someday descend from the Chaos Wastes at the head of an infernal host to demand reimbursement, and on that day you would not be found wanting? You found that notion credible enough to prepare for?"

"Yes."
This would be funny, if it wasn't simply the truth. Mathilde thought it was a reasonable possibility, and hey! Here he is.
 
Let's try and remember that this induction is about Eike,not Mathy, its her big day.


[ ] Wizard
Modify the induction oaths of the Grey Order into something fitting her promotion, to emphasize her progress within the Grey Order.


The safest option, no thrills but not spills.

[ ] Stirlandian
Induct her in the same way that any quickened child of the Empire would be taken on as an Apprentice, emphasizing her status as a citizen of the Empire.


Could be good to do, keep her grounded and remember where she comes from and would she should be loyal too.

[ ] Dwarven
Induct her in the same way that a Dwarf would be taken on as an Apprentice, building her ties to and familiarity of the Karaz Ankor.


don't like it, its the option that's about Mathy, not Eike, that's a shitty thing to do.

[ ] Religious
Induct her as your Apprentice within your shrine to Ranald and Shallya, acknowledging her faith.


Another good one, and good for bonding, especially the painting and its shared secret, just for master and apprentice.

[ ] Secrets
Read her in to a number of minor but exciting secrets to emphasize her duties as a knower and uncoverer of secrets.


bonding in Secerts, but might be a little to much about bonding her to mathy then nation or order.

[ ] Swordswoman
Present her with a training blade to emphasize her duties as a warrior.


An interesting one, because it implies that we aren't just going to take her as our magic apprentice, but are sword style too (when/if we every finish it.)

[ ] Blood (Greenskins)
Take her out to give her her first taste of combat in a controlled environment, against the greenskins of the Badlands.
[ ] Blood (Sylvania)
Take her out to give her her first taste of combat in a controlled environment, against the ambient undead of Sylvania.

I do not really like these ones, sets a tone for the relationship that I think is toxic myself.
[ ] Other (write in)
Specify what impression you want to imbue, or what culture you want to give Eike a new tie to.
Can I present:

[ ] Other: Prank
Take her out to do a series of minor but entertaining pranks throughout Altdorf to test her skills and remind her that there is room in even a wizard's life for fun.
 
Also, I'm not sure if I should be impressed or worried that a lot of people's reaction to all this seems to be "let's go find an Old One of our own to bind!"

I mean think I'll settle for both.
 
[ ] Stirlandian
Induct her in the same way that any quickened child of the Empire would be taken on as an Apprentice, emphasizing her status as a citizen of the Empire.

Aggressively pivoting from posting about mad science, I think we should go Stirlandian for Eike. She's going to inherit the EIC, and a big benefit of taking her on in the Grey Order and as an Apprentice is to help ensure that the company continues to act in the best interests of the Empire and humanity. I think we should emphasize to Eike that she's not above or separate from the people of Stirland and the Empire by virtue of her inheritance or magic, and that she's got a duty as wizard and the heir to a increasingly vast fortune to avoid abusing her power, and hopefully use it for the good of humanity and the peoples of Order.
 
I got that one, but the implication of the inciting incident being a betrayal is entirely new. Every retelling identifies the one behind the doom of Kavzar as a stranger.
When Mathilde was studying the old Tylosian coins from the Grand Urbaz vault (combined with what Cython said in another conversation) it suggests that the Horned Rat was originally one of the deities of Tylos before the incident that formed the Skaven.
 
Also, I'm not sure if I should be impressed or worried that a lot of people's reaction to all this seems to be "let's go find an Old One of our own to bind!"

I mean think I'll settle for both.
Pretty sure the only way they managed it is by knowing Morghur's true name. It's kind of like Daemon summoning, where knowing the Daemon's true name makes it much easier and more efficient to bind a Daemon.
 
Well, Mathilde was the one who compared her to Panoramia in the first place, so turnabout's fair play.

Ah, so reading between the lines it was aggressive flirting as much as operational insights and profiling.

Panoramia makes such a competent Grey Magister sometimes I start cooking up crazy shit ideas like her being a deep plant ( lol, swear it wasn't intentional, but now it is ). Too bad Mathilde isn't absorbing any Jade Order traits in return, that I'm aware of.
 
"The last you saw of me, I was embraced by the Shadowgave. And yet, you held on to enough money to repay me? As if I would someday descend from the Chaos Wastes at the head of an infernal host to demand reimbursement, and on that day you would not be found wanting? You found that notion credible enough to prepare for?"

"Yes."
'.... Really'

'well, no. but I always plan for every possible outcome... and I mean every outcome. '
 
can we please not do dwarf for the memes?

This is about Eike, not Mathy.

Who said it was for the memes? There is plenty of value to be had in ensuring more Dawi compatible Wizards exist in the world, one just needs to look at where we've been to see that, and treating her apprenticeship like that of a Dwarven one seems a great way to guide Eike to be one of those Wizards. Like sure this would be highly related to who Mathilde is, but Mathilde is her teacher, and this is a perspective arguably no other could teach an apprentice.

And If the Dwarves think Mathilde is Dwarven enough to claim her as their own, then is it really so wrong to view mathilde as one? They'd be the experts on Dwarveness would they not?
 
But even after it had forgotten, we remembered its true name. As Chaos crept closer and threatened us with extinction, the founding truth of Karag Dum was reversed. The old gods are the only force that could rival Chaos, so Karag Dum called the least terrible of those known to it. Karag Dum called the being that was Shadowgave, that was city-father, and that was the desert wind, because the first thing it was, was the teacher and warden of the Dawi. So once more it teaches and it wards, and the skulls of Kurgan and the essence of Daemons sink into the sands that it rules.
Is... is Morghur an Old One!?
 
Who said it was for the memes? There is plenty of value to be had in ensuring more Dawi compatible Wizards exist in the world, one just needs to look at where we've been to see that, and treating her apprenticeship like that of a Dwarven one seems a great way to guide Eike to be one of those Wizards. Like sure this would be highly related to who Mathilde is, but Mathilde is her teacher, and this is a perspective arguably no other could teach an apprentice.

And If the Dwarves think Mathilde is Dwarven enough to claim her as their own, then is it really so wrong to view mathilde as one? They'd be the experts on Dwarveness would they not?
Because forcing a Dwarf Style apprenticeship would be a terrible thing to do to Eike? The pressure along to copy Mathy, instead of being allowed to grow her own way is bad enough. But the dwarf will literally think she a failure if she doesn't match Mathys feats.

dwarf style is a bad thing to do to a young human.
 
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