Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
I think @ctulhuslp was arguing for just getting a regular greataxe, and turning the shaft into a staff, rather than a staff that pops out into a greataxe. Also, greataxe and halberd are different, halberds give +1S while great weapons give +2S at the cost of -2I.
And what do you mean by a grounding rod? Are you talking about what 8th calls an earthing rod, a bit of magical kit that allows you to reroll on the miscast table?
- Location
- Aotearoa
I mean, it is literally called the Cult of Ranald, so I don't know what you're trying to say.
Mathilde doesn't need dogma. Real world or Old World.
Mathilde doesn't need dogma. Real world or Old World.
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Which is how all religions start anyway. When the first slouching unwashed barbarian in what would some day become the Empire put on the skin of a dead wolf and declared himself the chosen of Ulric god of wolves no none made him that, but that is how worship of Ulric started just the same. What we are debating here is whether worship of Ranald is organized enough for the word 'ordained' to have any serious meaning, or if any small time crook with religious yearnings proclaim himself a priest of Ranald if he gets enough people to agree with him.
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- Location
- Austria
I mean, not all of Abrahamic chosen were ordained priests either, so.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
If you think the catholic church is the only religion to use the idea of ordination then you are very wrong. Not everyone can claim to be a Shinto Priest. There is a process they have to go through. They must be recognized by other Shinto priests in rituals. When a village shaman chooses a successor there is a process by which the successor becomes the new shaman. It is a fundamental process that very belief system with a priesthood has. Ordination is just a nice catch all word to capture the many varied rituals and rites that one undergoes in order to be consider part of a priesthood. Otherwise anyone could be a priest.
Ordination rituals are as varied as religions with priesthood elements. Drinking from a special chalice, specific self mutilation, dipping in a special pool, having blessed water thrown on you, having blessed oil thrown on you, eating a fermented shark. These are all different ordination rituals and nowhere near a complete list. Yet they all have one very key similarity. Ordination rituals are impossible to do by accident.
There is a point in this. Priests hold a special place in society. They are often elevated above the masses. In order for the masses to have faith and trust in the priest there must be a system that separates the masses from the priests. Otherwise how can the masses tell who is a priest and who is not? In almost every religion with a priesthood this system is ordination. (And the warhammer fantasy wiki explicitly states the ordination rites of priests of Ranald, they are pretty interesting if you want to check them out.) If you want to be cynical then one can say that ordination is one of the process by which the priests maintain power over the masses by insuring only those they want to be priests become priests.
I realize that I am using priests here but I hope you understand that I am using priest as a catch all phrase for higher religious authorities. Imams, Shamans, Shrine Maidens, Pastors, Priests, and many other titles are covered by the phrase priests in these writings.
Priesthood is not something that happens to people by chance. Priesthood is a path that must be chosen by freewill. The process for one becoming a priest in many religions is as spiritual as it is physical. This process culminates in ordination where fellow priests elevate the participant as a new priest.
So I am sorry to say this but the way the vast majority of religions work, not just Catholicism, do not support our idea of how Mathilde would be a priest.
Here is also the passage from the wiki about the ordination rites of the priest of Ranald.
Notice that through all of this the initiate is being observed and trained by other priests of Ranald. None of our heists have been at the behest of a priest of Ranald and we have received no training from them either. All in all I in no way can support the idea that Mathilde is a priest of Ranald because Mathilde has not gone through the ordination rites a priest of Ranald needs to go through.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If we were talking about a real person IRL, sure. And I'm guessing that you have a good deal of respect for real priests. But the truth of the matter is that Mathilde is a fictional character in a setting that is itself kinda goofy sometimes. Mathilde unknowingly being acknowledged as a priest is exactly what her friend and lowercase-g god Ranald would do. And if that sounds too improper or even disrespectful to you, I'd like to remind you that we're ultimately here for fun and games. No one here means to disrespect real priests and real religions, and part of that is already built-in from how Warhammer's religions are deliberately unrealistic.
I've yet to see with my own eyes a priest glow with an inner light and smash a demon's face in with a magically-empowered hammer, but that's never lowered my opinion of actual priests.
- Location
- Australia
Just because something's called a "cult" doesn't mean it has no dogma. Don't think the term only applies to what it's more commonly used for in the modern day in real life.
- Location
- Austria
Yes, I was arguing that with axe having a lot of wooden parts, it's closer to staff than greatsword is, which means it is easier to make into a wizard's staff, presumably. IIRC one of reasons wooden staffs are popular is that wood is a way easier material for staffmaking than metals. Jade wizards can just turn wood into the one you need, or something...
So yeah; I love big swords and I cannot lie, but greataxe sounds like an interesting hybrid between a killy implement and a way to not die from a bad miscast.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
That would be really really cool to see though. Like can you imagine the pope hitting a demon with that staff he carries around?If we were talking about a real person IRL, sure. And I'm guessing that you have a good deal of respect for real priests. But the truth of the matter is that Mathilde is a fictional character in a setting that is itself kinda goofy sometimes. Mathilde unknowingly being acknowledged as a priest is exactly what her friend and lowercase-g god Ranald would do. And if that sounds too improper or even disrespectful to you, I'd like to remind you that we're ultimately here for fun and games. No one here means to disrespect real priests and real religions, and part of that is already built-in from how Warhammer's religions are deliberately unrealistic.
I've yet to see with my own eyes a priest glow with an inner light and smash a demon's face in with a magically-empowered hammer, but that's never lowered my opinion of actual priests.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
I'm sceptical about the idea. Just why? If the idea is to have our magic staff be a melee weapon, than a greatsword works just as good - BoneyM has told us ages ago that a greatsword can hold the same enchantment and count as a staff. If the idea is to somehow use a heterogeneous weapon to bypass the normal limits on the amount of runes/enchantments and their compatibility, I doubt that that it will not invoke the ite of BoneyM and will be allowed. Something something wind interference.
And Ranald to agree with him too.(he might, its a good deception)
That said falsely claiming to be a priest in a world with active gods is not really wise in any way. You put yourself squarely under their influence to retaliate at will without a backer powerful enough to counter it
- Location
- Austria
It'd be Vulgar and run face-first into Paradox, followed by Technocracy goons.
Well, if we can make a greatsword into a good staff, then sure, there's no real reason to reinvent the wheel.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Yes, there is dogma around the Cult of Ranald, of course. That snippet of strictures, of which we adhere to a few, most of the time. Mathilde just finds her own way, though.
Again, the direct, strong, personal relationship.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
The main point is that you can't be unknowingly acknowledged as a priest. There are rituals you have to go and those rituals don't happen by accident. You have to chose to be a priest. You have to go through the steps. This is true for almost every religion realistic or not. There are established ordination rituals for Ranald. Since Mathilde has not purposefully gone through them Mathilde can't be a priest.If we were talking about a real person IRL, sure. And I'm guessing that you have a good deal of respect for real priests. But the truth of the matter is that Mathilde is a fictional character in a setting that is itself kinda goofy sometimes. Mathilde unknowingly being acknowledged as a priest is exactly what her friend and lowercase-g god Ranald would do. And if that sounds too improper or even disrespectful to you, I'd like to remind you that we're ultimately here for fun and games. No one here means to disrespect real priests and real religions, and part of that is already built-in from how Warhammer's religions are deliberately unrealistic.
I've yet to see with my own eyes a priest glow with an inner light and smash a demon's face in with a magically-empowered hammer, but that's never lowered my opinion of actual priests.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
You can have a strong personal relationship with any deity. That doesn't make you a priest though. If that was true than anyone who felt they had a strong personal relationship, true or not, would be a priest and that is simply not the case.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
No idea if it's easier, I'm not the GM. Doesn't sound too far off the truth though.
I think the idea is partially that wood seems to be better for staffs generally, and that having one weapon that could act as a staff and a weapon is great, but a greataxe is closer to the general shape and size of a staff anyway, making it easier to learn how to use the staff to ground magical energies. Which apparently involves stabbing the ground.
Also, while there is a hard 3-rune limit on any one item, I don't think it's ever been stated that you can't enchant a runed item. Might be foolish to try, but it's possible to have a look.
I....don't know what this means.It'd be Vulgar and run face-first into Paradox, followed by Technocracy goons.
- Location
- Austria
Kragg: Manlings, manlings never change.
sorry, Mage memes, wrong fandom >_>
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
I don't know. That's certainly true to a large degree, but it also wouldn't surprise me if it was entirely possible to become a priest by accident. It does seem like something Ranald would find very funny, based off his characterization. Plus, it's not like we're actually sticking 100% to canon, so whether that's how Ranald gets priests in the quest isn't sure.
Well, no the whole problem is that they do!
Ah, ok.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Well. I should say- kind of felt that that longer earlier post- while informative, and thanks for the honest efforts you put in- was full of trigger warnings for me.
Priests 'above' other people. 
Maybe what I'm is actually saying is to me, organised religion is terrible, and people should in fact be free to mediate their own relationship with the higher power of their choice. Or not!
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On appropriate staff materials, going by Ulgu themes you're probably looking at silver and steel, I'm not sure if wood would be significantly better symbolically, theres a number of woods I might see a relation to Ulgu with, but those are usually kind of a bitch to get a long, strong piece either, since they're usually flexible or twisty woods like Willow.
But on another point, what about shape? The classic long straight design seems rather contrary to Ulgu's themes of deception and ambiguity. Something curved would be good, but not grossly, just a sinous wiggle shape.
At which point I realized I was discussing a silver-steel flamberge.
But on another point, what about shape? The classic long straight design seems rather contrary to Ulgu's themes of deception and ambiguity. Something curved would be good, but not grossly, just a sinous wiggle shape.
At which point I realized I was discussing a silver-steel flamberge.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
I'm pretty sure BoneyM told us that no, enchanting a runed item is impossible, and we even had a dicussion on whether we want a runed or enchanted greatsword (sometime shortly before or in the beginning of this dwarfwenture, I beleive) but I don't have the time to hunt the quote right now.
Yes, Piety 21 is, like. On non-inflated scale of CK2 ability scores Boney seems to use, post-20 stat is fairly reasonable for a Hero Character... In their focus stat.You're kidding, right? Piety is Mathilde's highest stat.
Kasmir, for example, had approximately 20 in Piety. Van Hall, as a witch-hunter with Piety being his secondary main stat, had 15. Belegar as several hundred years old warrior-king has Martial 25.
- Location
- Austria
Sounds fabulous.
Well, judging by dwarfs having those silver/steel alloy spears in Karag Lhune armoury, if we indeed need silver/steel, we are in luck and can get our greatsword with relative ease.
And flamberg/greatswort...eh, close enough in technique I guess.
Aegon Targaryen
Dragonking of Fuyuki
- Location
- Romania
I am a bit confused. Why do some people say the expedition is nearing its end? Was the purpose not reclaiming the entirety of the Eight Peaks? We only have two, Karag Nar and Karag Lhune