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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Looking back at my old posts, and it's funny that I didn't expect the Marcher Fortress to be Waystone related when I was the one who suggested that the Great Forest was possibly a nexus and that part of it might be corrupted and brought up Sydow.

Speculation is fun, so I thought to myself, why not keep doing it? It doesn't hurt (I don't think), so might as well. I've split the speculation into several parts for ease of reading.
First, Mathilde theorises on the weirdness of the line being cut at Heideck and the possibility of Black Fire Pass being a possible connection to the Network:
Boney said:
It would, it seems, be the last nexus in the chain, a fact that you triple-check before you accept, as Heideck's location seems ideal for a leyline to pass straight down Black Fire Pass from the Border Princes. Perhaps somewhere in the mountains is a destroyed or deactivated or incomplete nexus that once would have bridged north and south.
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If a point is to be made within Black Fire, then I would say that the town of Grenzstadt, built into the mountain and the pass itself, would be the best spot:

"Also ruled by a representative of the Elector Count, the fortresstown of Grenzstadt guards the western end of Black Fire Pass, and the Old Dwarf Road passes through it. Grenzstadt is a centre of the fur, gem, and metals trade, with a large guild market and warehouses within its walls. Not surprisingly, the town has a relatively large Dwarf population, perhaps ten percent of the total. They act as trading agents for their clans and provide high quality services for those who can afford their prices. Tavern gossip also says they keep watch on local activities, looking for those who plunder Dwarf property and try to smuggle it to the Empire. These same wags also claim this explains the recent disappearance of several miners who bragged of a "big new strike" in the hills." Page 47 Heirs of Sigmar

There's even food for thought when it comes to this description. Like the Dwarfs being there want to observe more than just smugglers, but they're watching over some collapsed/deactivated Waystone which might be considered a cultural artifact. There is also the intriguing "big new strike" which is kept vague.
In my post above, I had a lot of information in there, but I also reference that Meissen was once a Hill Dwarf settlement that humans built on. The Iron Isle and Bugman's restored two Hill Dwarf settlements and connected them to the network, but what about Meissen? It's certainly not mentioned. As a town, this is Meissen:

"The biggest port on the middle Söll and the terminus of the trade road from Karak Norn, Meissen is a bustling, prosperous town. Meissen is famed for its works in silver, and its goblets, tableware, and jewellery are in high demand over much of the Old World. Under the direct rule of the Elector Countess, Meissen is the only town in Wissenland she regularly visits, including the official capital of Wissenburg! She comes to survey the works of the town's master craftsmen and crafts-Dwarfs, often buying the best pieces for herself.

Meissen is also the site of a fortified smelting house and treasury where silver ore is smelted into ingots, which are then stored for use by the Silversmiths' Guild. The building, of Dwarf construction, is heavily fortified and guarded." Page 97 Heirs of Sigmar

Meissen is an interesting location, also with heavy Dwarf presence, and proximity to Karak Norn, which as we now know, is likely a Nexus. Also interestingly, there's this: "Sigmar's cult centres in the west, where contact with the Dwarfs is greatest. Both Wissenburg and Meissen have large temples that host shrines for the Dwarfs to worship their own deities." Either Meissen's network has collapsed, or it's feeding energy to Karak Norn still, but it's less noticable than Bugman's. I don't want to assume that the amazing jewelry and Silver is the result of magic, Dwarf craftsmanship is amazing after all etc. etc. But it is an option.
In regards to Mordheim, I think I have an idea of what might be the Nexus within the city. The Mordheim spinoff game is not a source that Boney draws from extensively, but this might be applicable, because Seeress Cassandora was already mentioned. The Sisters of Sigmar in the Mordheim game are the only Mordheim natives to fully survive the comet, and the reason for this is that Cassandora saw a vision, warned her sisters and matriarchs, and they huddled up under their fortress of Sigmar's Rock and kept praying, and their fortress survived. Sigmar's Rock served as the base for their Warband as they went around purifying the city for Sigmar's glory. There's a bunch of details about the Sisters of Sigmar, but most of it is likely to be irrelevant. I suspect the Rock is a nexus.

This is a side note and a piece of trivia. Don't take it seriously. But the creator of Mordheim apparently had some sort of idea that was scrapped and never presented during the life time of the game, and he decided to post a version of it to Facebook. It's incredibly obvious why it was scrapped, but if you're curious, meet the Child of Light.
Also, now that I'm more familiar with Araby's geography, I want to issue a correction and an update in regards to Araby's possible Waystones. The Sorceror's Archipelago which Cython gravitated towards is not on the northern coast of Araby, it's on the western coast, close to the Port Cities of Lashiek (City of Pirates) and the Spice Port of Copher. To the north, you have Fyrus, Mullah Aklan's hometown and a location that the Elves forcibly took over. Fyrus is an island, but it's pretty close to the northern coastal city of Al-Haikk, which coincidentally was Sultan Jafar's capital city. Al-Haikk is also known as the City of Thieves. To the southern coast of Araby, around the Gulf of Medes, is El-Kalabad, a prosperous Arabyan city which is on the opposite shore of the Imperial Colony of Sudenburg. Close to El-Kalabad to the west is an abandoned Elven Colony. I also believe that Akhaba, the final city that Mullah liberated from the Elves, was around the southern coast of Araby.

If I were to speculate on an Arabyan Waystone structure, then I would expect it to be a ring around the giant peninsula across the coast. Fyrus to Al-Haikk to Martek to Copher to Lashiek to the Sorceror's Archipelago and then it goes down and around to the abandoned Elven ruins, Akhaba, and El-Kalabad. And Sorceror's Archipelago might be the source of flow from Araby to Ulthuan.

This probably doesn't make sense to most people who haven't looked at Araby's map, but if you have I'm sure it'll be clear. I made a custom map a while ago, I think I'll drag it back to the limelight, despite my embarrasment at how amateurish it was.
 
This was the custom map for Araby I made a while ago. Some of the names are pretty hard to read, sorry for that. There are a lot of locations I've added, all of them from one canonical source or another, primarily to fill out the extremely empty map. The most important locations are the ones I've mentioned in my other post:
The only reason I'm even bringing this up is because Fyrus isn't represented on any canonical map aside from Total War, so I took the Total War location and added it here. I also added Akhaba because it wasn't in any canonical map despite being Mullah Aklan's final battle with the Elves, but while Boney is incorporating that lore, GW have been trying to forget it ever since they made it.
 
Personally, I'm hoping the Morbs of Sorcery flex might be enough to be able to trade a few of them for a Seviroscope or magical camera. I don't think the orbs are individually enough to compare with the 10+ Skaven artefacts we traded for Gehenna's secret, but they could give something cool anyway from each individual College.

As Codex said, I don't think speculation hurts.
  • Grey: Algard headpats. Support for EIC?
  • Gold: Improve our gyrocarriage's capacities, either mundanely or magically.
  • Bright: Support for the K8P Gunnery school? Help with the upcoming dwarven reclamation project?
  • Jade: Something neat that can help Panoramia?
  • Amber: Helping figure out the We's silk situation?
  • Celestial: They have to publicly proclaim that the Grey Order is very nice and that they don't know what they'd do without us. With a smile on their face.
  • Amethyst: Tell us what Hexensohn was up to in Sylvania. As we speculate, was he taking a look at a corrupted waystone?
  • Light: Keep us up to date on potential trouble from Chaos cults in the Empire? We know OOC that the Everchosen tournament is going on, after all...
Alternately, for all of them:
  • Outfit WEB-MAT's research facilities.
  • Outfit KAU with as many College books as possible.
  • Seviroscope.
  • The secrets of the Ambers' Flock of Doom and the Jades' Dwellers Below?
And there's one possible collective benefit that might stretch the Colleges' capacities...
  • The Colleges must make efforts to develop more relationships with one another than they already do to get along.
I know, this one seems a bit too optimistic.
 
Boney said:
You're not just talking about something that is transparent to mystical light be reflective to mundane light - or vice versa - which would be a difficult but not insurmountable task. Even recording it wouldn't be a huge ask, as monochrome photography was theoretically possible as early as the 1200s to someone who had the right books and a knowledge of both German and Arabic. The real sticking point is that you'd need something that doesn't just store all the input in one big undifferentiated puddle of light, but manages to either record what goes in with extremely high fidelity or stores each fraction of a second's worth of light separately. You're talking about a magical video camera, one with a high shutter speed. The non-magical equivalent would be the chronophotographic gun of 1882. That's a bit beyond what Mathilde can bang out in an AP or two.
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Magical camera is definitely way overambitious. Magical photography would already be very useful though, even if it makes it hard to study the dynamics of what you're studying.

But even then, it already seems quite hard. We'd need a reactive that can react quantitatively to magic. And ideally, we'd need that reactive to be sensitive to only one type of magic, and then tweak it to make variants that react to the other Winds. That way we can do color photography.
But photography doesn't exists yet and we don't know of something that react to magic that way... Not something we can work much on right now. If we find one such reactive we can revisit that idea.
 
Parabola said:
Personally, I'm hoping the Morbs of Sorcery flex might be enough to be able to trade a few of them for a Seviroscope or magical camera. I don't think the orbs are individually enough to compare with the 10+ Skaven artefacts we traded for Gehenna's secret, but they could give something cool anyway from each individual College.
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The thing about the Seviroscope flex, is that it's theoretically repeatable every four years.

The colleges have had one set of orbs for almost two centuries. Thanks to Mathilde, they'll have two, and probably more, unless we discover another comparable use for AV.
 
IronFist said:
The thing about the Seviroscope flex, is that it's theoretically repeatable every four years.

The colleges have had one set of orbs for almost two centuries. Thanks to Mathilde, they'll have two, and probably more, unless we discover another comparable use for AV.
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Probably should look at 'weaponise AV' just in case it's not just 'warp bomb'. That we expected from Journeyman Mathy.

I expect that 'one sided cataclysm magic conditions' is very much on the cards for a high roll. Just because our side will know when there will be a short burst of winds coming and the other side won't.
 
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IronFist said:
The thing about the Seviroscope flex, is that it's theoretically repeatable every four years.

The colleges have had one set of orbs for almost two centuries. Thanks to Mathilde, they'll have two, and probably more, unless we discover another comparable use for AV.
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I want to restrain my enthusiasm because otherwise it's counting chickens before the eggs hatch, and because Boney has said that anything that requires an Orb to power could alternately be powered by several regular powerstones in an array - they're not completely and utterly unique resources.

But yes, I think the worst case scenario is that they're 'just' worth several regular powerstones' worth of CF, but even that would be incredible for our CF economy.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Probably should look at 'weaponise AV' just in case it's not just 'warp bomb'. That we expected from Journeyman Mathy.

I expect that 'one sided cataclysm magic conditions' is very much on the cards for a high roll. Just because our side will know when there will be a short burst of winds coming and the other side won't.
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That can already be done with orbs of sorcery though?

Boney said that expending an Orb like a powerstone when casting could power a cataclysm spell (and probably blow the wizard's head off too...)
Parabola said:
I want to restrain my enthusiasm because otherwise it's counting chickens before the eggs hatch, and because Boney has said that anything that requires an Orb to power could alternately be powered by several regular powerstones in an array - they're not completely and utterly unique resources.

But yes, I think the worst case scenario is that they're 'just' worth several regular powerstones' worth of CF, but even that would be incredible for our CF economy.
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Yes, but it's still an improvement. It's like trying to engineer something: getting one component to work is easier than having to get multiple components to work together harmoniously to achieve the same effect.
If i were to guess, the first time we make orbs of sorcery, will get us the equivalent of a "great deed" for the colleges. And after that it's diminishing returns.
 
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IronFist said:
That can already be done with orbs of sorcery though?

Boney said that expending an Orb like a powerstone when casting could power a cataclysm spell (and probably blow the wizard's head off too...)

Yes, but it's still an improvement. It's like trying to engineer something: getting one component to work is easier than having to get multiple components to work together harmoniously to achieve the same effect.
If i were to guess, the first time we make orbs of sorcery, will get us the equivalent of a "great deed" for the colleges. And after that it's diminishing returns.
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Yup! I know electricity and winds aren't one to one, but I suspect being able to have one large Orb vs multiple stones in series/sequence has a bunch of benefits similar to the benefits of having one large battery for like laptops vs a series of Double AAs.
 
So I was relaxing in bed when I had a sudden revelation that I should have caught earlier. Do you guys remember Cadaeth talking about the Dreaming Woods of the Old World's Forests? She had this to say about the Reikwald:
Boney said:
The Reikwald lies dormant, the magic that once sustained it disappeared.
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Why is this relevant? Well, Yenlui is almost certainly in that forest:
Boney said:
"I really don't like the idea of Marienburg being able to hold half the continent hostage," you say faintly. "Are there any other links to the west?"

"Athel Yenlui," Hatalath says.

"Where's that?"

He thinks for a while. "Reikland somewhere, I think."

"If leylines don't like to go under mountains, it would have to be going via Helmgart or Ubersreik. Something to investigate further, I think. Anywhere else?"
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Aside from Yenlui's description in Vermintide saying that it's in the Reikwald, "Athel" generally refers to Elven settlements in magical forests. I don't think it's a coincidence that there is no noticable flow from Athel Yenlui anymore, and that coincides with the Reikwald somehow losing "the magic that sustained it" and that it now lies dormant.

That's probably why the Reikwald's biggest threat is brigands and bandits of all things. It's a popular hideout for them. It's a surprisingly mundane spot all things considered.
 
IronFist said:
The colleges have had one set of orbs for almost two centuries. Thanks to Mathilde, they'll have two, and probably more, unless we discover another comparable use for AV.
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The colleges have several sets of Orbs of Sorcery. Boney hasn't nailed down how many, but it's a small number. The Gigaflex won't double the number of Orbs that the colleges have, but will still be very significant.
 
Though repeating the flex will face harshly diminishing returns in terms of favour. The first new Orb a college receive in centuries is a wonder. The third in a decade? Ehh...it's neat, I suppose.
 
If I remember correctly, shadowy fog constructs are a possible spell Mathilde could make, right? Maybe before we try to catch and bind Rider in Red we should try and make that spell? That way, Nazgul is less suspicious: it would just seem like an evolution of the "make constructs" spell. Also, such spell sounds pretty rad.
 
neutronium95 said:
The colleges have several sets of Orbs of Sorcery. Boney hasn't nailed down how many, but it's a small number. The Gigaflex won't double the number of Orbs that the colleges have, but will still be very significant.
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Yes, though the numbers don't really matter. It would be the first set produced by humans rather than handed down from the elves. That's a great symbol.

Thinking about it, it works amazingly well as a symbol for her agenda of human magical equality. She's been going around, recruiting people, going 'we have cool magical secret traditions too! Come join me in my treehouse club, and well talk about how cool our magical secrets are, and then we'll make something super cool. The older neighborhood kids already joined, it'll be great and we'll totally impress them'. And then she drops proof that humans can match the impossible magical feats of Ulthuan. That's a goddamn statement right there.

And someone looking for a pattern would look at Karag Vlag and wonder. She succeeded where Teclis failed, after all. And disparate parts coming together only in hindsight is so very grey, too. Especially this one, who has already demonstrated her cunning.

Of course, just as with that incredible feat of planning, it's completely accidental. Mathilde just wants to impress her senpais. Everyone else sees a poignant statement about the ability of humans to match the feats of the elder races, effectively demonstrating the validity of her political agenda, and the unique rewards she can offer.

I love how Mathilde keeps being a brilliant mastermind by sheer accident.
 
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BurnNote said:
I love how Mathilde keeps being a brilliant mastermind by sheer accident.
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It is as Heidi said: Position yourself right, and no matter how the cards fall, you will benefit.

Mathilde is in a position where just about anything is either an opportunity or a benefit to her, barring excessive things like the next everchosen waltzing into town.
 
BurnNote said:
Yes, though the numbers don't really matter. It would be the first set produced by humans rather than handed down from the elves. That's a great symbol.

Thinking about it, it works amazingly well as a symbol for her agenda of human magical equality. She's been going around, recruiting people, going 'we have cool magical secret traditions too! Come join me in my treehouse club, and well talk about how cool our magical secrets are, and then we'll make something super cool. The older neighborhood kids already joined, it'll be great and we'll totally impress them'. And then she drops proof that humans can match the impossible magical feats of Ulthuan. That's a goddamn statement right there.
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More important than the new Orbs themselves is the fact that they're replaceable. Until now each deployment of Orbs has had to face the calculus that every Orb that's overrun by enemies or stolen by Chaos/Vampires/Skaven is completely irreplaceable. This means that the Colleges will have only authorized Orb deployment for the biggest wars, and would only deploy all of their unused ones if the destruction of the Empire is emminent.

Now any lost Orb can be replaced in eight years (if I remember the AV's flow rate correctly), with seven others alongside it. This should make the colleges way more willing to deploy Orbs for smaller deployments, and to authorize research on less vital applications for them.
 
notanautomaton said:
More important than the new Orbs themselves is the fact that they're replaceable. Until now each deployment of Orbs has had to face the calculus that every Orb that's overrun by enemies or stolen by Chaos/Vampires/Skaven is completely irreplaceable. This means that the Colleges will have only authorized Orb deployment for the biggest wars, and would only deploy all of their unused ones if the destruction of the Empire is emminent.
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Perhaps a little like the changed calculation Thorek's Runic Recharge Service allows for the deployment of Anvil Runes by the Karaz Ankor. Though the Orbs are less of a capstone than an auxiallary magical doodad, as you say the possibility of resupply might allow that to change over time, too.
 
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We also can't discount that we're proving the production method is pretty easy and can be done by anyone with the right raw materials. Sure, those materials are pretty rare, but part of the reason we're publishing the AV book is so that other people can research sustainable ways of harvesting it. We know it exists outside of the Snakebox—Teclis made his Orbs somehow, and it looks like the Eonir have a lake that naturally produces it (although it has a guardian and what little they can siphon off seems to be dominated by the Cult of Vaul). Knowing that AV exists, and knowing its basic properties, is enough knowledge to start an investigation into acquiring more of it.

The Orbs are literally just a proof of concept and not that important in the grand scheme of things—the real game changer is the research we're providing, and the opportunities it creates.

It's like going on a quest for the Holy Grail, but you've got definitive proof that it exists, what it looks like, what it does, and roughly where it might be found. Sure, you've still got to go out and find it—but it's a lot more you have to go on than you did previously.
 
...You know, I wonder how valuable Orbs would be to the average Nagarythian. Would the Nagarythe elves would give us headpats and favor if we gave them Orbs to use against the Druchii? Are they like, a known factor that the Hoeth Loremasters only share rarely? Do they share them at all? I wonder. But I can't imagine they have the leeway to turn any help down.
 
Orbs are probably best considered as powerstones, but more so. Powerstones make new types of enchantments accessible. I don't think they're required, but if you don't have them, you need greater skill. Orbs aren't required either, per WoB they can be replaced by a bunch of normal powerstones, but that makes the enchantment more finicky too, and so you need greater skill.

I mean, the sun switching on our hellfire mountain required a bunch of powerstones used by "likes towers" Algard. If we had access to Morbs then, we might have gotten that even from someone who isn't literally the most well suited person possible.

But the interesting thing is this: Powerstones were invented by the colleges. The elves surely did it before, but apperantly didn't teach it, since inventing the technique is something one of the Patriarchs (a Gold IIRC) is famous for. Back then, it was probably considered incredibly hard and mysterious too. Nowadays, it's something ambitious journeyman try their hands at, and unambitious magisters do to earn a living. Orbs will likely be harder, but it reasonable to expect people will figure out a generalisable way. And since that requires a greater understanding of how magic solidifies (more than one strand), it may also lead to improvements in powerstone creation.

And so human magic advances. Powerstones become more ubiquitous (espeially if it gets to the point that journeyman level mages can produce them), and so higher level magics become easier to use and more widespread. And so this in turn can be more easily studied and improved.

There's going to be a ceiling, due to the contrarian nature of the winds and the lack of automation combined with a small population, so skill will still be necessary, but even the most skilled climber will get higher if he can walk up a paved road before she has to start climbing.
 
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