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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Parabola said:
Are there any mechanical benefits to Magic 10? At least on a narrative level, it has to be something, I guess, but I'm trying to look up benefits of further magic and coming up blank.
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Pumping our magic so high is very much uncharted territory. Maybe there's a benefit. Maybe there isn't. We won't know until we get there. All we know is that a human unmodified by arcane marks can't go higher than 10, but a human with them can, and that a human soul with arcane marks is not much different from what a wind dragon did to their soul.

I suspect that going above and beyond mortal limits will be mechanically beneficial. I'm sure it will be narratively cool.

I just don't know what we need to do to get there.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
All we know is that a human unmodified by arcane marks can't go higher than 10, but a human with them can, and that a human soul with arcane marks is not much different from what a wind dragon did to their soul.
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We do? When did we learn that?

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Pumping our magic so high is very much uncharted territory. Maybe there's a benefit. Maybe there isn't. We won't know until we get there.
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I suspect that the scary purple lady with the Shyish dragon got to that level. If I remember correctly, she's very very old, much more than most wizards, and she must be truly exceptional to have a dragon as a mount.
 
I think mastering Arcane Marks could plausibly lead to higher Magic? But that's very much "plausible theory" rather than something I'm remotely certain about.
 
Parabola said:
Are there any mechanical benefits to Magic 10? At least on a narrative level, it has to be something, I guess, but I'm trying to look up benefits of further magic and coming up blank.
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Pumping our magic so high is very much uncharted territory. Maybe there's a benefit. Maybe there isn't. We won't know until we get there. All we know is that a human unmodified by arcane marks can't go higher than 10, but a human with them can, and that a human soul with arcane marks is not much different from what a wind dragon did to their soul.

I suspect that going above and beyond mortal limits will be mechanically beneficial. I'm sure it will be narratively cool.

I just don't know what we need to do to get there.
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Casting magic, even Battle magic (at least with Rite of Way) is a Learning action.

I think Boney has stated that Magic stat is representative of the effective quantity of magic we can pump into spells to get effects. An increase represents an increase in ability to gather power, or control it better, or being more attuned to it so it flows through our soul better. Or all at the same time.

Effectively, how much Ulgu we can gather and how efficiently we can shape it.

Aside from the milestone requirements (you must be this tall to cast Battle Magic, etc.) the mechanical benefits appear so far either relatively rare, or mostly undefined. I would expect more in terms of narrative effects.
 
I remember being told that pushing our magic beyond its limits is way to train our magic. So trying to create and learn new Battle Magic, along with using it when given a chance is something we should do.

Also, Cython just straight up said that controlling our Arcane Marks and getting more is a path to becoming a full Ulgu creature, like he is fully Hysh.
 
K von Carstein said:
We do? When did we learn that?


I suspect that the scary purple lady with the Shyish dragon got to that level. If I remember correctly, she's very very old, much more than most wizards, and she must be truly exceptional to have a dragon as a mount.
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There's nothing really indicating Elspeth's age, apart from "younger than the Colleges themselves".
 
Roswita did reference Elspeth's longevity once:

Boney said:
"As long as it takes, as decided by yourself. Even if you become another Elspeth von Draken, if you feel the job's not done, then you can be delivering reports to my great grandchildren."
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So we can assume she's probably been around for at least four generations if the comparison is accurate. That puts her approximate age... very close to the founding of the Colleges. If she wasn't one Teclis's original students, she was probably apprenticed to one of them.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Roswita did reference Elspeth's longevity once:



So we can assume she's probably been around for at least four generations if the comparison is accurate. That puts her approximate age... very close to the founding of the Colleges. If she wasn't one Teclis's original students, she was probably apprenticed to one of them.
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If we assume a generation is 20 years, that's 80 years and still leaves her a century after the founding.

It's hard to say.
 
Her age is less significant than the fact that any special effect that only works on Undead also works on her too, and her character description in Tamurkhan says that's because she's so aligned with her Wind that she's practically something different. I think the positive is that she inflicts Fear/Terror? Been a while since I checked her profile.
 
K von Carstein said:
We do? When did we learn that?
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WoB. The logic is that default humans can't go higher than 10, but having an arcane mark makes you ever so slightly not-human (or better, not-default), which means the limit doesn't apply to you anymore. Since getting to 11 without getting a mark is just about impossible for a human, it's mostly irrelevant. It might still be a soft limit, but there's so few humans capable of getting to 9 or 10 that it's hard to tell.

I think it came up a few times, but I have invoke the pickle for citations.
*** @picklepikkl @picklepikkl @picklepikkl ***
I'm sorry picklepikkl, but that's just too much fun.
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Roswita did reference Elspeth's longevity once:

So we can assume she's probably been around for at least four generations if the comparison is accurate. That puts her approximate age... very close to the founding of the Colleges. If she wasn't one Teclis's original students, she was probably apprenticed to one of them.
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There was also speculation it's a name shared by a line of mages.

But it's also possible she predates Teclis. Humans had magic before, and she's apparently got some crazy dead god stuff in the Lore, so it's not impossible. Especially given you have to either have massive hourglasses or be kinda crazy to call yourself von Drak while the vampires aren't that far away, and probably won't do that without a reason.
 
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BurnNote said:
WoB. The logic is that default humans can't go higher than 10, but having an arcane mark makes you ever so slightly not-human (or better, not-default), which means the limit doesn't apply to you anymore. Since getting to 11 without getting a mark is just about impossible for a human, it's mostly irrelevant. It might still be a soft limit, but there's so few humans capable of getting to 9 or 10 that it's hard to tell.

I think it came up a few times, but I have invoke the pickle for citations.
*** @picklepikkl @picklepikkl @picklepikkl ***


There was also speculation it's a name shared by a line of mages.

But it's also possible she predates Teclis. Humans had magic before, and she's apparently got some crazy dead god stuff in the Lore, so it's not impossible. Especially given you have to either have massive hourglasses or be kinda crazy to call yourself von Drak while the vampires aren't that far away, and probably won't do that without a reason.
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The only solid statement on her backstory in Tamurkhan is that she was a student of the Colleges.

Also, she rides a dragon, I don't think Elspeth worries about things.
 
I found my post on Elspeth:
Codex said:
I skipped to the end of Throne of Tamurkhan so I can actually get a good look at Elspeth's stats for the first time. A lot of it is stuff I expected. Not that great in melee, Wizard level 4 with Loremaster (Death) (knows all Death spells), stuff like that.

Interesting things about her: First is that her Carmine Dragon's stats surprised me. It has WS 5 and S5 like a Sun Dragon (the weakest Ulthuan Dragon type), but has T6 and W6 like a Moon Dragon (middle dragon). The Carmine Dragon has Initiative 5, which is better than any standard Ulthuan Dragon, and 6 Attacks, which is equal to Star Dragons, the strongest Ulthuan Dragon type. Its leadership is 8, like a Moon Dragon. The Carmine Dragon's stats ping pong a lot between the different Dragon types.

The second interesting thing is that the Carmine Dragon's breath attack is pretty unique. Most breath attack have the Breath Weapon rules, they're a cone originating from the caster and inflict an auto hit, but you still have to roll to wound and armor saves can be taken.

The Carmine Dragon's breath attack is fired like a damn canonball. Anything in the same path as the Carmine Dragon suffers D3 wounds automatically with no armor saves allowed, which is pretty crazy. You also can't misfire with the breath attack. It's a good thing it's only once per game.

The third interesting thing are her magic items. A scythe with Killing Blow and +1 boost to her dispel attempts, and the infamous god dust in her hour glass. Apparently the hourglass gives her limited control over death and time, letting her reroll one die roll every player turn (which is two rerolls per game turn). If she doesn't reroll during a turn, she regains one wound she lost earlier in the game. I assume narratively this is worked out as winding time back.

The final interesting thing is that she has a trait called Darkwalker. Apparently she's so suffused by the Wind of Death that she is considered to be walking the edge between life and death. As such, she is semi ethereal or something, so all attacks get a -1 to wound against her and she has Immune to Psychology. The interesting thing about this though, is that all effects that only work on Daemons and Undead, like the Light Magic Exorcism, works on her.
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The Trait is Darkwalker, and I was wrong about what it gave her in terms of positives.

Also, Elspeth's backstory does say that her family line produced people both great and terrible, and that she is the latest of that line. No elaboration on that point.
 
Personally, I like the idea that she's some sort of super ancient non-dhar undead carrying around god dust, and Dragomas is actually a Celestial Dragon taking a more convenient form, and they're both genuinely loyal to the Colleges because they just like the people and think it's neat.
 
BurnNote said:
WoB. The logic is that default humans can't go higher than 10, but having an arcane mark makes you ever so slightly not-human (or better, not-default), which means the limit doesn't apply to you anymore. Since getting to 11 without getting a mark is just about impossible for a human, it's mostly irrelevant. It might still be a soft limit, but there's so few humans capable of getting to 9 or 10 that it's hard to tell.

I think it came up a few times, but I have invoke the pickle for citations.
*** @picklepikkl @picklepikkl @picklepikkl ***
I'm sorry picklepikkl, but that's just too much fun.
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Boney said:
Magic 10 would be about the limit for those entirely human, but that's normally been given up long before one approaches that level.
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Boney said:
Every Arcane Mark is Mathilde's soul becoming less human and more Ulgu, and one side-effect of this process is longevity.
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If we are gonna make more battle magic that isn't just trying to adapt our masteries (which is apparently possible, but hard as fuck), I propose Mathilde's Malicious Miasma, which is a miasma which hides within it Shadow tentacles trying to strangle all who dive in, effectively casting a throttle not only to strangle them, but also try and tie them up in case they don't care about strangling.
As a bonus, we might steal some future techniques from apprentices going back in time to assassinate us.:V
 
I don't really vote all that often but i really like the idea of Mathilde having her own little town/fief that is being expanded upon in the background.
[X] [FIEF] Approve plus Jade Wizard

(also i like that the locals call the bailey area "the Shadowkeep", now we just need a rickety tower perpetually shrouded in mist & shadow with flashing lighting every time someone does a evil laugh)
 
Codex said:
Liche Priests do something different. They seal their soul inside their body, preventing it from deteriorating or slipping into the Underworld. It does mean that their body decays and weakens but their soul remains normal.
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Hmm, but suppose you did while strongly saturated with Shyish? It inhibits growth, and that would include stopping decay.
 
Modern liche priests aren't unaging, they just keep getting older and older and older. It just can't kill them.
 
BurnNote said:
Hmm, but suppose you did while strongly saturated with Shyish? It inhibits growth, and that would include stopping decay.
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Their magic is primarily divine. They only got Death and Light Magic in 8th Edition, and while they can use it and it's probably part of their Lore, I'm pretty sure you can't discount the Divine influence. We already know that Shallya can mess with age.
 
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