Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Actually, out of curiosity, what exactly counts as "an entire array" of powerstones? 3-4? 5-6? Because even if we assumed an absolute basic "one Orb is worth this many Powerstones" translation—I don't, but just for arguments' sake—a simple 3x return on a full set of 8 Orbs would give us 120 favor. 5x would be 200. Ironically, 200 reputation is also the exact number we need to afford the seven other Powerstones for a full set.

Again, that would totally break the favor system.
 
Cython as Librarian, if it'll accept our terms, has one huge advantage: Mathilde can leverage the dragon's own knowledge to get more knowledge.

Right now, Cython doesn't have much stake in helping Mathilde answer Waystone riddles or impress foreign cults or institutions. What's in it for the dragon?

But if every success by Mathilde can be turned into a bigger hoard ( == library) for the dragon...

...Cython could become an amazing mine of exotic insight.

Sure, it'll never be an "employee." But once it can see that Mathilde's success can enlarge its own book-hoard, trading for the dragon's lore becomes massively more feasible.

We've already learned crazy things from both Cython and Deathfang. What else might this dragon teach us, for a bribe of books?
 
Mathilde is not an idiot, when she approaches Cython it will be in the frame of giving it an opportunity with certain future proofed caveats. If it decides those caveats are a deal killer... it can just not accept and Mathilde can move on to another option.
@Boney Is this really the case, with us being allowed discuss further contract conditions, or is Mathilde basically turning over ownership rights to the library and only keeping the right to make copying deals with other libraries and full access to all the material?
 
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On Cython it's worth noting that it would be a partner. Not the new owner. There's no way Mathilde would just tell sell the library to it or something.
 
Actually, out of curiosity, what exactly counts as "an entire array" of powerstones? 3-4? 5-6? Because even if we assumed an absolute basic "one Orb is worth this many Powerstones" translation—I don't, but just for arguments' sake—a simple 3x return on a full set of 8 Orbs would give us 120 favor. 5x would be 200. Ironically, 200 reputation is also the exact number we need to afford the seven other Powerstones for a full set.

Again, that would totally break the favor system.
Not really yes it is a way to get fairly massive amounts of CF. But AV is a strictly limited resource and much like DF we are running out of useful things to do with CF anyway.
 
@Boney Is this really the case, with us being allowed discuss further contract conditions, or is Mathilde basically turning over ownership rights to the library and only keeping the right to make copying deals with other libraries?
There's sure to be difficulties in acclimating Cython to having intruders wandering around its hoard and its sure to consider itself a full partner in the library rather than a mere employee, and the task of recruiting the rest of the librarians will have to be granted to it so that it can hire a team it feels comfortable allowing full access to its hoard.
My understanding that Cython would effectively be a full partner, neither above or below us, but recruitment of other librarians would have to be left to it because otherwise there's no way it'd be comfortable with it all.

It seems to me that there might also be some AP(or library AP) investment necessary to make sure Cython is comfortable letting "intruders" wander around its "hoard", but probably not as much investment as training the We would take.
 
My understanding that Cython would effectively be a full partner, neither above or below us, but recruitment of other librarians would have to be left to it because otherwise there's no way it'd be comfortable with it all.

It seems to me that there might also be some AP(or library AP) investment necessary to make sure Cython is comfortable letting "intruders" wander around its "hoard", but probably not as much investment as training the We would take.
I thought it was a background thing that would just take time, not AP? Because we already have a significantly sized list of KAU actions to do.
 
I feel like a lot of points that were actually in the update are getting repeated or forgotten, so here are all the relevant quotes for the top 4 options from the update.
Or you could turn to the Cult of Verena, to the scriveners of Clio and the calligraphers of Scripsisti. Nowhere will you be able to find a more dedicated and enthusiastic staff of aficionados of the written word, and they will work tirelessly to ensure that the knowledge within is as accessible as possible to those who visit it.
Or you can have a staff trained up from scratch. The easiest way to integrate the Library into the wider Karak is to recruit its staff directly from it, bringing in whoever is willing and able and training them as librarians. While this might not give you any distinct advantages, it does mean that the Library will be more properly part of the Karak rather than merely located within it, to the benefit of both.
Then there's the more exotic options. The We have been doing well enough for long enough that they're beginning to consider 'splitting', where a few Egglayers are birthed, given a coterie of Webweavers and an honour guard of Hunters, and go off into the world to find a new home for themself. At first the new We will be almost identical to the original, but over time they will diverge into entirely different individuals. While the current plans would be to establish then somewhere under Karagril so they can be conveniently close to the greenskins that are their prey, they could instead establish themselves in your library and dedicate themselves to the care and cultivation of your library. It will be a long and difficult process to teach them all that they'd need to know, but at the end of that path is a staff of librarians that are able to easily move in three dimensions, instantly communicate with each other, increase their numbers to whatever amount is needed, and be absolutely terrifying to anyone inclined to misbehave and might normally expect nothing more than a smack with a ruler and a stern look from a more conventional librarian.
And then there's Cython. There's been a great many times when you've reflected that Cython's deep well of knowledge and experience might be of use, but there's precious little that you can offer it that it cannot already secure simply because its goodwill is greatly desired by the Karak it lives within. But there's one thing that might be able to lure it down from its peak for more than the occasional raid on your shelves, and that is if you offer it a large and ever-growing hoard of knowledge it will be able to call its own. There's sure to be difficulties in acclimating Cython to having intruders wandering around its hoard and its sure to consider itself a full partner in the library rather than a mere employee, and the task of recruiting the rest of the librarians will have to be granted to it so that it can hire a team it feels comfortable allowing full access to its hoard. But the full cooperation of an Emperor Dragon is something that you're fairly sure no other library can boast.

[ ] Cult of Verena
Will ensure the goodwill of the wider Cult, and will make a Library dedicated to sharing truth and knowledge.
[ ] Locals
Will more fully integrate the Library with the wider Karak, to the benefit of both.

- Tragically you can only pick one, though some of these options will be available with minor modifications if/when you recruit a team of scribes for the Library.
- A note on libraries: The possessiveness of some potential recruits is not as much of a concern as you might think. in this era, most libraries only ever lend out books if they have multiple copies or to exceptionally trusted individuals. They don't work the same way as modern libraries, where almost everything is expected to go out the door on a regular basis.
I thought it was a background thing that would just take time, not AP? Because we already have a significantly sized list of KAU actions to do.
You're probably right that it would just take time when it comes to teaching the We how to library, yeah.
Probably just time unless you want to instil something exotic, Mathilde will set up teachers and trainers if needed as part of the current action.
I think I misinterpreted this quote and was confused as a result.
 
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Not really yes it is a way to get fairly massive amounts of CF. But AV is a strictly limited resource and much like DF we are running out of useful things to do with CF anyway.
The comparison to DF is why I think it would break the favor system, because we did break the DF system. We could do this twice, right now, and still have some AV left over. Even at 3x, we would more than double the College favor Mathilde already has as an LM.

Boney got rid of the DF system before it could even get over 200. I kinda doubt he would let the CF system go over 300, let alone 400.
 
Yeah, training/acclimatisation would be background actions, not direct AP expenditure. The We and the orphans would take the most amount of time, the Verenan's and Runescribes the least, but would also come with pre-existing loyalties and values as opposed to the blank slate the others would provide.

That's basically what we're voting for here—do we want a blank slate that we can mould, or do we want someone to help us shape the library according to their values.

Locals, Halflings, Orphans and the We are all blank slate candidates.

Collegiate, Verena, Runescribes, and Cython will all impose their identity onto the library.

Do we want full control, or do we want to share the power and responsibility?
 
You spend one afternoon at work, and wow.

I honestly think people are overthinking this a little.

if we can make one Orb of Sorcery and hand it in, and then ask all the other colleges for a powerstone to see if the same trick works (even if we know it will) they would totally hand the powerstone over.

Replace the rune of spellbreaking in Thorek's array with crystal mist for a while? Most efficient way I can think of.

Cython seems more suited to Tor Lithanel where they live on novelty and prestige. We can still get its opinion on obscure subjects, the question is how much we value others having that chance.

Personally, I prefer the efficiency of the We, since the library is ultimately still inside a dwarfhold.

[X] The We

"Hey, so I was thinking about asking you to be the guardian and head of a massive hoard of knowledge here, but I realized that the spiders would be great and you've got a reading room there already, so no big deal. But honestly, if you want the really rare secrets? I can get you an invite to a Tor up north where they've got best that's left in this world, and an empty place for you to crash. What do you say?"

An Orb of Sorcery is the size of a persons head.

I don't think it's physically practical to have that on the end of a staff, even if it was magically useful.

So, I remember from art class that people are usually about seven heads high? So since Warhammer, a foot thick staff made of stone one head taller than a person wouldn't even be out of aesthetic.

Say, it occurs to me: if the We can also become scribes, then they could be really good at copying books from the Library so they can be loaned or sold. Mathilde wouldn't have to get into contact with any scribes or anything for that purpose, the We could just do it themselves with no delay or management difficulties.

Who needs a printing press in the face of spiders? I love it. Plus given spiders, this is exactly the sort of thing that could be done literally overnight while someone slept- find the book one day, get a copy of it the next.

don't know if it's at all plausible, but presenting the Orbs of Sorcery in Two-Gifts Day would be a spectacular flex.

I love this yes please.

Though contrast to thread consensus, I'd almost prefer to prank the celestials.

Like, they get a prophecy that Mathilde will give them a valuable gift- and here we swagger up, crowing about the amazing elf-made undergarments we acquired on their behalf, give them like a four count to stutter, then be like "oh yeah, and you can have this, I don't need it anymore" and toss an orb at them.

You know, the first thing anybody's going to think about them is that we finagled the secrets of their creation from the Eonir.

Do you think anyone is going to be brave enough to ask the eonir about it behind our backs? I'd love to see the elves' expression and the pingpong reactions shots back to the wizard.

Nah it should be some elven made robes and the 8 orbs.

Undergarments. Gaudy, ostentatious, as prim as we can get an elf to make.
 
Tochter nods. "When he was forming our Order, he spent quite some time trying to convince us to stop using the ancient methods we had of drawing power from the Waystones, and only when we stood firm did he teach us the Elven method of pooling and drawing Ghyran from a Waystone - and only Ghyran, not the other Winds. The Elves believe that we should leave the Waystones be."

I wonder if Tochter still knows these ancient methods—and if they have any value at all in a post-Teclisian world.

"Aye, big news. First entirely non-military aircraft the Dwarves have built since the air barges of the Golden Age. Opinion's divided on whether that's a sign of hope or hubris."

You know, it's just sunk into me just how big this is. First non-military aircraft in how many thousands of years? That's crazy. No wonder Mathilde can't find a non-military pilot for it.

Also another random thought I just had—I swear if Johann's arm is made of waystone gold I'm going to freak.
 
You know, it's just sunk into me just how big this is. First non-military aircraft in how many thousands of years? That's crazy. No wonder Mathilde can't find a non-military pilot for it.

Also another random thought I just had—I swear if Johann's arm is made of waystone gold I'm going to freak.
I mean, being fair, Gyrocopters have only been around for a few centuries, far as I'm aware.

And the Dwarfs haven't been able to make Thunderbarges since the Golden Age.
 
Where do we keep our very nice and cool book on necromancy? I hope we are taking care of it so it doesn't fall to disrepair. It's our first and most important book after all.
 
Why would we not want an Ulgu Orb of sorcery? you never know when you are going to need it and its a huge investment making a new one since we would need to make all 8.

It's not like the colleges are going to use them right away, it would just be stored same as the others, maybe they get more lax on their use since they are no longer relic tier, but whatever the case i say we keep one around, maybe push the limits of our enchanting using it as a power source.

Edit: Way i see it:
The Orbs are like a computer, yes you can fly to the moon without it, but you need a team and years of calculations, and it that same frame, most people can't afford computers even if they already exist, so their use is very controlled and limited.

So, even if you are not planning to go to the moon, there's a lot of stuff you can try with a computer that other people can't because its too expensive or there is a large queue to access it (Yes i had to run simulations for my thesis, why do you ask?), but suddenly that is not a problem and you can now afford to approach a lot of problems from a different angle.

To make it clear, i'm using the computer as an analogue because it seems part of the issue the Orbs solve is one of complexity, you can do a complicate array with powerstones, calculating their interactions among themselves and the environment, or you can plug in an Orb, or better yet, you can see an unsolvable problem that would requiere years of trial and error to even being to approach a solution, or you can merely have a masterwork difficulty problem when using an orb.
If we discover we need the ulgu orb of sorcery we can go get it after handing it over. We're both a Lord Magister and the person who made it; we're not going to be turned down unless our idea for using it is clearly pointless or the thing they're using it for is clearly essential, and in either case it's better they have it anyway.
 
Again, that would totally break the favor system.
In a universe where the thread madness starts winning turn votes:

"Library Access or I drop the Orbs into a volcano!"

"So you could challenge me for the position of Supreme Patriarch. Or your college could receive another Orb. Your call."

"Say it! Say that Celestials Drool, Shadow Wizards Rule! Better yet, sing it!"

"Ok Dragomas, there's only one way to settle this fairly. You and Thorek, dance off for the next four years of output."
 
If we discover we need the ulgu orb of sorcery we can go get it after handing it over. We're both a Lord Magister and the person who made it; we're not going to be turned down unless our idea for using it is clearly pointless or the thing they're using it for is clearly essential, and in either case it's better they have it anyway.
Going back to ask for it would defeat the point of giving it to them.
 
Hey @Boney out of curiosity, how impossible would the Elves consider Mathilde making not just an Orb of Sorcery for our Wind, but one for every Wind? Would that be in the "puppy doing advanced math" area?
 
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