Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
fictionfan said:
If we donate 8 Orbs of Sorcery we should have enough CF that getting 8 more power stones is chump change. AV is the limiting factor.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Of course, what I meant is that even if we get those extra 8 power stones, and make 8 more Orbs, then we've got a personal Ulgu Orb… and seven Orbs that we can't really use. Unless there's some grand Windherding project we have in mind that could use Orbs from all the Winds, at least a few of those would be best off just getting handed to the College's as well, but the lack of a complete set would probably be noticed.

Mathilde isn't obligated to supply the Orbs, but some people might question why some Colleges got an extra and some didn't.
 
Last edited:
Adhoc vote count started by StormySky on May 10, 2022 at 5:01 PM, finished with 754 posts and 231 votes.
Click to expand...

i love how the votes are progressing and how well they mash whit Mathilde's characterization; she loves her karak and wants to make the project part of it whit, but she is an exentric at heart and can't help but want a magic-creature run library.
 
TreP said:
Can some remind me please, how We's connection to books work? Do they consider books part of We purely by posession or do they actually need to read it first?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
IIRC, they are psychologically unable to give up a book after reading it, so they end up buying the book. Also, this is what Boney said about the We's feelings on multiple copies of the same book.
Boney said:
Worthless. The value of a book to them is it is a repository of information that does not require either caloric upkeep or conscious attention to maintain it beyond the lifespan of the We that existed when that information was acquired. Having the same information in another book holds no value to them. They don't grasp the idea of a back-up because their consciousness is incapable of leaving the place where they'd be storing their books (unless they up stakes and shift their entire hive, Egglayers and all, in which case they'd also be moving their books) and constantly watching over every corner of their abode so they can't imagine a scenario where there's a housefire while they're at work, or a pipe bursts over their bookshelf, or whatever.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
TreP said:
Can some remind me please, how We's connection to books work? Do they consider books part of We purely by posession or do they actually need to read it first?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
they don't really have a connection to books, they don't even really get how lending works and think copies are objectively worthless.

some people think they are a good idea, but quite a few just want the weird option regardless of being objectively the hardest and longest to pull off. (like, long after the quest is over pull off.)
 
Last edited:
StormySky said:
IIRC, they are psychologically unable to give up a book after reading it, so they end up buying the book. Also, this is what Boney said about the We's feelings on multiple copies of the same book.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Presumably, if the We wins the vote, part of the training process would be making them understand that for humans at least, those extra copies are quite valuable. These are an offshoot of sorts, so they can probably be open to some new ideas.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
they don't really have a connection to books, they don't even really get how lending works.

some people think they are a good idea, but quite a few just want the weird option regardless of being objectively the hardest and longest to pull off. (like, long after the quest is over pull off.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Given that the GM said they will be taught in the bakground I do not think we are working off 'long after the quest is done'.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Say, are there any canonical examples of the sorts of enchantments made possibly by an Ulgu orb?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The only canonical uses of the Orbs of Sorcery are the Luminark of Hysh and the Celestial Hurricanum, which are incredibly devastating battle altars for their respective Winds. Presumably all six other Winds have analogous applications, even if they haven't appeared in army books.

I have absolutely no idea what we personally might want to do with an Ulgu Orb of Sorcery that is better than giving the Empire the limiting reactant for another tactical nuclear weapon. I don't think anyone has ever tried using them for something other than WMDs, on the grounds that the Colleges' raison d'etre is to provide magical firepower and Orbs are too few in number to run experiments on. I think, sadly, other people than Mathilde should handle that research: we've already got a groundbreaking field of enchanting research that we aren't doing much of because we don't have time.

@Boney, just checking: I assume Orbs of Sorcery, and applications the Empire has made of them, would fall under the rare-book set for Power Stones rather than being its own category?
Jyn Ryvia said:
some people think they are a good idea, but quite a few just want the weird option regardless of being objectively the hardest and longest to pull off. (like, long after the quest is over pull off.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
While I don't support the We option, I don't think we have specific reason to believe it would necessarily take that long before they were capable of doing the job. I just think it would take longer than I'd like, and not do as good of a job as binding the library and the Karak together as we wanted when we decided on the Boon wording.
 
Last edited:
Say, it occurs to me: if the We can also become scribes, then they could be really good at copying books from the Library so they can be loaned or sold. Mathilde wouldn't have to get into contact with any scribes or anything for that purpose, the We could just do it themselves with no delay or management difficulties.

Of course, we'd probably still need scribes outside of that if we wanna do copying off of other libraries like the Library of Mourning, but none of the other options can replace those either.

Jyn Ryvia said:
some people think they are a good idea, but quite a few just want the weird option regardless of being objectively the hardest and longest to pull off. (like, long after the quest is over pull off.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That uh, sure are some assumptions you're making both about the We vote and the people voting for it.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
they don't really have a connection to books, they don't even really get how lending works.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But they have. As StormySky reminded me, they literally consider the first copy of book they read as a part of self and thus unable to give it up.

StormySky said:
IIRC, they are psychologically unable to give up a book after reading it, so they end up buying the book. Also, this is what Boney said about the We's feelings on multiple copies of the same book.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So reading it is. Thanks!
Now, if We wins the vote, we have to let them read Liber Mortis as a part of library, right? Could We possibly become a Dhar magic theorist without danger of actually doing something stupid with it?
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
Given that the GM said they will be taught in the bakground I do not think we are working off 'long after the quest is done'.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I meant in the 'super hive mind that knows every book' and 'most people not being creepy out by big spooders' part.

I also don't want to think about how many times people are going to post about 'when will the Library open?' in future turns from now if the thread picks one of the two 'your literally teaching them how to Library from scratch.' groups.

like, the library will open next turn if we pick one of the professional groups, and fairly soon if we pick on of the groups where we can find suitable people.

But we and the orphans are going to take forever to get ready.
 
LadyLynn said:
Say, it occurs to me: if the We can also become scribes, then they could be really good at copying books from the Library so they can be loaned or sold. Mathilde wouldn't have to get into contact with any scribes or anything for that purpose, the We could just do it themselves with no delay or management difficulties.

Of course, we'd probably still need scribes outside of that if we wanna do copying off of other libraries like the Library of Mourning, but none of the other options can replace those either.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I had a similar thought a few pages back, plus once they get the concept of how much value a book can have they could probably make a lot of money selling them which they'd then use to either buy more books or supplement their food supply with purchased meat.
 
LadyLynn said:
That uh, sure are some assumptions you're making both about the We vote and the people voting for it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
and I'm fairly sure its accurate from reading posts over the years (and this vote in pertiuer.) I'm not taking it back.

just because it an assumption doesn't make it a bad one when people have right up said they just want to weird or exotic one. (hell, I've voted a few times for the weird just for the weird.)

edit: people love using 'umh, assumptions!' as a way to shame people to take back what they said.

I dont think its inaccurate, and i did say that there are people with other reasons. so why would i take it back if i think its a fair guess?
 
Last edited:
TreP said:
Now, if We wins the vote, we have to let them read Liber Mortis as a part of library, right? Could We possibly become a Dhar magic theorist without danger of actually doing something stupid with it?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No way. Remember that the We insist on keeping one copy of whatever they read, so Mathilde probably has to spend time personally scribing a copy of it if she wants to keep the holograph. Besides, Mathilde has also gotten a good grasp of Dhar theory from reading the Liber Mortis, and she isn't doing anything dumb about it either.

I just don't see the point of giving the We dangerous knowledge that they won't use at all (as opposed to Mathilde's selective and responsible use), especially when we have to spend extra time scribing.
 
Last edited:
On the Orbs of Sorcery...

I wonder if any of the PMatriarchs celebrate Two-Gifts Day?
Boney said:
Originally from Ostermark, Two-Gifts Day is a holiday to Ranald that waxes and wanes in popularity in neighbouring provinces based on how well they're getting along.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
The Holiday itself revolves around presenting two gifts: one silly and presented in a grandiose manner, the other more precious and handed over without ceremony. Originally, both gifts were then fair game to be stolen and presented to someone else, but most families have reduced this to only the silly gifts to prevent strife. This goes against the intended message of the holiday that material objects are relatively meaningless and ownership can be fleeting, but it does make for a much more harmonious holiday. And even if the Night Prowler's message is lost, the Deceiver is still being celebrated, and was likely amused by the change besides. There are benefits to a multi-faceted God.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't know if it's at all plausible, but presenting the Orbs of Sorcery in Two-Gifts Day would be a spectacular flex.
 
picklepikkl said:
I have absolutely no idea what we personally might want to do with an Ulgu Orb of Sorcery that is better than giving the Empire the limiting reactant for another tactical nuclear weapon. I don't think anyone has ever tried using them for something other than WMDs, on the grounds that the Colleges' raison d'etre is to provide magical firepower and Orbs are too few in number to run experiments on. I think, sadly, other people than Mathilde should handle that research: we've already got a groundbreaking field of enchanting research that we aren't doing much of because we don't have time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I could see an Ulgu orb being useful for stuff that wasn't quite so offensive, but nonetheless profoundly useful. Like hiding an entire locale so that it was difficult to find, or something of that nature.
 
StormySky said:
No way. Remember that the We insist on keeping one copy of whatever they read, so Mathilde probably has to spend time personally scribing a copy of it if she wants to keep the holograph. Besides, Mathilde has also gotten a good grasp of Dhar theory from reading the Liber Mortis, and she isn't doing anything dumb about it either.

I just don't see the point of giving the We dangerous knowledge that they won't use at all (as opposed to Mathilde's selective and responsible use), especially when we have to spend extra time scribing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, that's the point. I don't think we ever going to remove this book from most protected section of library. Mathilde all but memorised it at this point, and we can always reread it if needed.

Mathilde is not doing anything stupid because she is our character.

The point is that anyone with the permission from someone we deem trusted enough (Emperor of Supreme Patriarch I suppose) would be able to consult We about Dhar-related problems if Mathilde is not around for any reason. Without any temptation or even possibility to steal the book itself. And We wouldn't be able to use this knowledge themselves, because they are no mages.

Of course this would be on strict need-to-know basis.
 
Last edited:
Actually how does this sound to everyone, a custom gyrobomber that has swapped out the bomb compartment for a battle altar thing with a Sphere powering it that is configured to carpet bomb an area with Pits of Shade.
 
Sinsystems said:
Actually how does this sound to everyone, a custom gyrobomber that has swapped out the bomb compartment for a battle altar thing with a Sphere powering it that is configured to carpet bomb an area with Pits of Shade.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It doesn't sound like the orbs can be used as ongoing power supplies. The options seem to be to use them all at once (which sounds Unwise) or to take advantage of their passive effects on nearby reality to amplify other spellcasting.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top