Mathilde would guess no. If the Dhar was being used to draw Winds in to the Waystone then she'd have been able to spot it when she was studying the Waystone. But as soon as Dhar entered the Waystone Mathilde lost sight of it, which would seem to indicate that it's either immediately dropped into the leyline or it's kept very well insulated, and either way it wouldn't be able to be used as an attractive mechanism.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Mathilde would guess no. If the Dhar was being used to draw Winds in to the Waystone then she'd have been able to spot it when she was studying the Waystone. But as soon as Dhar entered the Waystone Mathilde lost sight of it, which would seem to indicate that it's either immediately dropped into the leyline or it's kept very well insulated, and either way it wouldn't be able to be used as an attractive mechanism.
- Location
- Utrecht
This is going to be so awesome to figure out.
An alternative theory: the winds pushing each other around the pinprick of Dhar form a miniture whirpool that creates an attractive force towards the waystone.
But the "current" created would have to be extremely subtle (to only attract small amounts of wind at a time) because otherwise Mathilde wouldn't have missed it.
The Rolls weren't stellar in that update... so maybe?
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
It brings me back to that absolutely kino moment where Mathilde touches Gretel, tears the magic out of her and snuffs it in the palm of hand. I really wonder how weirded out the kids were on scale from 1 to 10, because that shouldn't be possible, right
I think it might just be an osmosis thing. The waystones are permeable to the winds (thanks to dwarven runes), so when there's less wind on one side than the other they just sort of get absorbed through it.
Romv
A Memory of TREES
What even is a leyline though? What form does the magic in a leyline take?
Is it a bunch of different Winds? Wouldn't that turn into Dhar really quickly? Especially if Dhar is dumped into it as well.
So is it all Dhar? How does that allow non-Chaos to use it? The Dawi probably wouldn't use Dhar, neither would the Ice Court, unless they can turn it into something else (which would be very interesting indeed).
Or does it all get turned into something that isn't Dhar, but more like AV?
Lots of questions left here as well...
Question mark? Question mark? Question mark?
Is it a bunch of different Winds? Wouldn't that turn into Dhar really quickly? Especially if Dhar is dumped into it as well.
So is it all Dhar? How does that allow non-Chaos to use it? The Dawi probably wouldn't use Dhar, neither would the Ice Court, unless they can turn it into something else (which would be very interesting indeed).
Or does it all get turned into something that isn't Dhar, but more like AV?
Lots of questions left here as well...
Question mark? Question mark? Question mark?
Last edited:
- Location
- Utrecht
Like a heat pump, of sorts? where the winds being pushed down the ley line produces a "deficit" which the ambient winds are pulled in to restore equilibrium?
Does "Nature abhors a vacuum" apply here?
Last edited:
No, because those aren't tributaries. According to our newly minted terminology tributaries are those structures that deal with small amounts of magic that don't retain the nature of the individual winds, and while I have no idea what the heck the immaterial Waystone is it's probably not that because
1. I'm pretty sure Altdorf is a leyline nexus
2. I would imagine that the Lights are doing something with Hysh so their Waystone should be able to hand decently large amounts of wind, large enough for them to retain the nature of Hysh
Jyn did in fact make a list of all the various types of Waystones/tributaries we've seen and collated a whole bunch of information on Waystones besides, but right now the research avenues proposed by Mathilde seem to mostly focus on the Elf-Dwarf Waystones (half of our research avenues are just studying components of those Waystones) and the tributaries because the tributaries are simple. Other designs we've seen are only important to those research avenues insofar as they can teach us about those things - so the Obelisk of Laws is interesting because it doesn't use the Waystone Rune and maybe we can learn about the Rune's purpose by comparing it to regular Waystones, for example.
[X] College Dispensation
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Not to quite the same degree, but perhaps as a general rule. I suspect it's not nearly as violent as with an actual vacuum, because MAthilde would have definitley seen that kid of force when examining the Waystone.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
It's two weeks by Mathilde's Shadowsteed.
I can't remember how much faster a Gyro is, but it's definitely a good bit faster. And you can just fly straight over terrain you'd otherwise have to navigate around, like the road that joins the Zorn Uzkul to the Steppes that we lost the Urmskaladrak to.
And you might be able to park it to camp in places most things can't get to- when Mathilde scouted the Steppes the first time, she went most of the way by Gyro, and the pilot parked it on a mountain and camped out while Mathilde went further on her Shadowsteed.
All told, assuming infinite fuel, the trip would be far-and-away easier on a Gyro.
I don't know about leylines. In my head-canon leyline is a space where material world is "softer", therefore Winds are drawn into it because of less resistance and less likely to "spill out". Whenever they are natural or created by the Old ones or both. Waystones, added at key points, are used to gather more Winds and to streamline them into direction you need.
We got some info about how Winds are behaving inside in the latest update.
Winds inside are still Winds. They are drawn into Dhar, but repelled by each other. This creates a stable orbit around Dhar. At the same time, again based on this quote, Dhar is naturally inclined to leave material world. This, combined with the Vortex, creates a "pipeline" that sucks Dhar along with Winds that cling to it out of the world.
Waystone Project Perspectives
You know part of me wonders how the others saw this conversation. I mean we have some really diverse PoVs here. Actually let's try
Elrisse-O-Vision
Bloody Greys and their grey contacts.... Priest of Haletha she says, if that is not a hedgewise I'm an Ogre. Butchering perfectly good metaphors of enlightenment to make s speech about history. Well at least she got the dwarf to talk somehow. I wonder if he can do that transparent stone trick
Egrimm-O-Vision:
Waystones use Dhar? Of course waystones use Dhar, every bloody useful thing on the planet seems to be using forbidden lore somehow. It's a wonder more wizards don't fall. I wonder if she'll try to keep it secret
Tocher-O-Vision
Elves are arrogant, news at eleven. At least this lot is talking and giving us a seat at the table not dismissing all we learned out of hand from the Old Ones.... Wait Old Ones? That was real, there were teachers older than the Elder races who weren't gods. Damn elves not giving a straight answer
Aksel-O-Vision:
Keeo your head down while you figure out who is who and what is safe to say. I wonder if the Kislevites are up for sharing a bit of news from the east.
Hatalath-O-Vision
Managing magical infants who do not know what the hell they are doing... oh and a dwarf. I don't even know which is worse. How much to tell them... how much is safe? Wait, how does she know what an Old One is... and they did what out north? Gods bright and dark what are those lazy SoBs in Ulthuan doing that the humans have been redirecting stones on their own. Calm down, calm down they did not blow up the world, see the world is still here... Fuck, they might actually know something useful. Out of the mouths of babes and all that.
Cadaeth-O-Vision
What an eclectic bunch. I wonder how they will take to a visit to the forest... not the old woman though, she would scare the spirits blind.
Sarvoi-O-Vision
The transmutation of the soul really makes the wizards of the Empire quite becoming. Really it is almost like becoming one with the forest, but so much more wild... and so very clever. Clever enough to know what not to do as well which is half the battle
Thorek-O-Vision
Grumble GRUMBLE GRUMBLE *sound of teeth grinding* I don't even know who half these people are beyond being able to find them on a map. It's for the best, it's for the best.... think of the reform
Niedzwenka-o-Vision
*sound of inner cackling* I get to impress by selling someone else's secrets. Happy fun days. That is why you don't send a Maiden to one of these parties. Elf's not too arrogant, shadow girl's a dab hand at smoke and mirrors, but then she would be. What's she holding?
Zlata-O-Vision
Help I need an adult...what do you mean I'm it?
Elrisse-O-Vision
Bloody Greys and their grey contacts.... Priest of Haletha she says, if that is not a hedgewise I'm an Ogre. Butchering perfectly good metaphors of enlightenment to make s speech about history. Well at least she got the dwarf to talk somehow. I wonder if he can do that transparent stone trick
Egrimm-O-Vision:
Waystones use Dhar? Of course waystones use Dhar, every bloody useful thing on the planet seems to be using forbidden lore somehow. It's a wonder more wizards don't fall. I wonder if she'll try to keep it secret
Tocher-O-Vision
Elves are arrogant, news at eleven. At least this lot is talking and giving us a seat at the table not dismissing all we learned out of hand from the Old Ones.... Wait Old Ones? That was real, there were teachers older than the Elder races who weren't gods. Damn elves not giving a straight answer
Aksel-O-Vision:
Keeo your head down while you figure out who is who and what is safe to say. I wonder if the Kislevites are up for sharing a bit of news from the east.
Hatalath-O-Vision
Managing magical infants who do not know what the hell they are doing... oh and a dwarf. I don't even know which is worse. How much to tell them... how much is safe? Wait, how does she know what an Old One is... and they did what out north? Gods bright and dark what are those lazy SoBs in Ulthuan doing that the humans have been redirecting stones on their own. Calm down, calm down they did not blow up the world, see the world is still here... Fuck, they might actually know something useful. Out of the mouths of babes and all that.
Cadaeth-O-Vision
What an eclectic bunch. I wonder how they will take to a visit to the forest... not the old woman though, she would scare the spirits blind.
Sarvoi-O-Vision
The transmutation of the soul really makes the wizards of the Empire quite becoming. Really it is almost like becoming one with the forest, but so much more wild... and so very clever. Clever enough to know what not to do as well which is half the battle
Thorek-O-Vision
Grumble GRUMBLE GRUMBLE *sound of teeth grinding* I don't even know who half these people are beyond being able to find them on a map. It's for the best, it's for the best.... think of the reform
Niedzwenka-o-Vision
*sound of inner cackling* I get to impress by selling someone else's secrets. Happy fun days. That is why you don't send a Maiden to one of these parties. Elf's not too arrogant, shadow girl's a dab hand at smoke and mirrors, but then she would be. What's she holding?
Zlata-O-Vision
Help I need an adult...what do you mean I'm it?
I wonder if this is why clogged Waystones produce dhar—they detect winds that need pulling away, so they produce dhar to draw it in, but then the dhar lingers, trapping the winds, which the Waystone continues to detect, and continues to produce dhar, exponentially increasing both the volume of wind (which curdles into dhar) and the amount of dhar in one location as it all gets drawn into a single location but not shipped downstream.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Definitely. The biggest problem with a Gyro is the fuel issue. Refueling stations need to be set up across the Dark Lands, which would be a serious obstacle. Only thing that could justify it is if the Karaz Ankor decide that maintaining a quick access link to the Far East is worth the trouble, which is questionable.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Honestly, I think it might actually be easier to convince Dwarfs (radical engineers, at least) to use enchantments of Stoke the Forge/Inextinguishable Flame than it would be to set up safe refueling stations in the Dark Lands.
Do we know that Waystones gather Winds via Dhar, or is it a conclusion from the update?
I imagine that it's not that complex, just any Wind inside Waystone stales into Dhar after some time of just sitting there. And then, new collected Winds get sucked into it, also transforming into Dhar.
- Location
- Utrecht
I wasn't saying shadowsteed is better.
That was me shilling to learn to pilot the thing with someone from WebMat, so we'd have three pilots that can fly the Gyrocopter with no stops.
The life magic was so we wouldn't need provisions for a journey to Cathay.
---
Then we'd need a variant of Smoke and Mirrors that lets us teleport swap. That way we wouldn't even have to land
. Just hot-Swap pilots.
Last edited:
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm not sure if Fat of the Land is one of those spells you can safely cast on another-Wind using Wizard or not.
If it is, it might come with the restriction of not being able to cast any non-Jade magic until it's ended.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I think you misunderstand which Cults are being meant here. We wouldn't be asking the Taalites or whatever to sanction us. We would declare the present members as authorities of the "Cults" of Halétha, the Earth Mother and Tahoth and then just do whatever the hell we want while not feeling quite as bad about it. It's a fig leaf excuse that essentially is the same as Conspiracy, except that it replaces guilt with arrogance and allows for us to at least say anything at all in our defense if we get caught.
Or maybe, just maybe, I completely misunderstood the point of that option. Which I only think likely because, as I understand it, it is so blatantly bad as to confuse me when I try to figure out why it exists as an option at all.
Arguably that's by far the biggest secret we learned. And IMO it's a doozy even if it isn't Elven, considering that this is the very first day of the Waystone Project. And the fact that it is possible and that Humans can do it (with divine help) is something that Elves definitely wanted to continue keeping secret. Asur Elves that is.
We knew that Runes on stone could still function and have their intended effects. Not that there are Runes that specifically make stones more porous/conductive for Winds and Wind magic.
To add, the idea that it would be seen as more shady by non-collegiate third parties implies that said third parties trust Dragomas and his Wizard buddies more than the rightful Emperor of Sigmar's Holy Empire. Who are those people?
It's common knowledge that Dhar accumulation is normal for broken or corrupted Waystones. Or even just turned off ones. Like, when Mathilde turned of that Waystone near Karak Vlag it would have eventually become a messy and irreparable Dhar pool if she had randomly decided not to turn it on again.
So you were partially right, but one doesn't need to go through some complicated dark ritual to achieve it.
Also Herdstones can be set up without having a Waystone ready to corrupt at hand. Beastmen do all those rituals in order to set up a new thing. The location might be important, but there doesn't need to be anything there currently.
There's also the three extra large ogham stones we saw in that Taalite holy place in Ostermark. They work like a nexus despite being human made if I remember correctly. And they are located at what used to be a major artery, so they weren't only functional due to being minor tributaries.
Nice.
I wonder if any of the Elves were impressed by MAP. It's a minor spell, but maybe not one that they know. Although, maybe it is exactly the kind of obvious cantrip that Teclis didn't bother teaching.
- Location
- Utrecht
I don't think so: It doesn't seem any more intrusive than the Seed in terms of Wind.
We'd just need to switch it off to do the pilot hot-swap
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
It's good that it was only the three journeymanlings there to see that, but there's a part of me that has always regretted that Johann wasn't present at that moment, 'cuz it was legitimately badass.It brings me back to that absolutely kino moment where Mathilde touches Gretel, tears the magic out of her and snuffs it in the palm of hand. I really wonder how weirded out the kids were on scale from 1 to 10, because that shouldn't be possible, right
Do beastmen use Dhar? Or they corrupt Waystones/use Herdstones solely to get more Chaos influence?
You do realise that the college option includes getting the emperor involved? What's better—asking both Dragomas and the Emperor together for something, or going behind Dragomas's back and getting the Emperor's approval, followed by a retroactive signature from Dragomas?
Chaos magic is Dhar and Divine magic together.