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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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vsh said:
It really doesn't to me. All it takes to break it is ten goblins with bows turning, and then we're down, with our back to the enemy-controlled wall and waiting for a horde to charge.
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I mean I am not voting for it. The plan does seem decent from a risk reward and it's ability to meet goals. I do believe that there are problems in how people are imagining it will work and how it will work in writing but that is pretty common with every vote.

The Set everything on fire plan seems better to me given our immunity to fire and the fact that K8P is implied to have little rain, Titus' comments about needing irrigation comes to mind, meaning the ground and wood will be on the dryer side of things. Setting a roaring inferno through out the caldera while we waltz through the flames killing things feels like a pretty epic backdrop to the citadel assault. Much cooler than just sitting there casting the same spell over and over.

Even if the flames don't reach the epicness I would like them too the confusion they would create would definitely help the assault on the citadel.

Edit: since it seems that my vote isn't showing up in the tally

[x] Plan Light Everything On Fire And Kill Things
 
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[x] Plan Light Everything On Fire And Kill Things
-[x] Propose lighting as much of Grobi Town on fire as possible, using whatever combination of your personal sneaking, magic to help others sneak, ranger sneaking, halfling sneaking, top-class dwarven incendiary technology, artillery-hurled incendiaries, and other means the war council can cook up.
-[x] Ensure in particular that the portions closest to the Citadel entrance are lit up so that reinforcing the Citadel becomes difficult to impossible without charging into the flames.
-[x] Combine with assassinations for additional confusion and to ensure lack of an organized response.
 
disappointing, that we're throwing away the most effective option to go with burning stuff, if the burning shadows option was dangerous then the set everything on fire option is even more dangerous as you're going to be making our shadow spells all but useless, the concern that goblins could just shoot Mathilde are significantly worse in the set things on fire plan given it would require us to actually be in the Grobi town.
 
[x] Plan Light Everything On Fire And Kill Things

No need to make things complicated - KISS remains as valid as ever.

People have mentioned that it's hard to burn wet wood, but I see no indications that the wood would be particularly damp - it hasn't rained in the past few days - and beyond that I'd be surprised if the dwarves couldn't provide us with some napalm or the fantasy equivalent.

Once we set the fires, we can go around ganking anyone who looks like they're trying to mount an organized response, and pop our terror weapon if any larger groups try to target us.

There's going to be a ton of flickering shadows and smoke, which makes it an incredibly rich casting environment.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
disappointing, that we're throwing away the most effective option to go with burning stuff, if the burning shadows option was dangerous then the set everything on fire option is even more dangerous as you're going to be making our shadow spells all but useless, the concern that goblins could just shoot Mathilde are significantly worse in the set things on fire plan given it would require us to actually be in the Grobi town.
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Why would it make our shadow spells all but useless? I mean we can't use substance of shadows because of the illumination but I don't know why our other spells wouldn't work. We don't need to be in the literally shadows to cast our spells and flickering flames create a lot of shadows anyway.
 
How would Mathilde carry enough accelerant to burn a town? More than that how is mathilde going to get in and outsafely? People have raised the question of the danger of merely standing near the citadel and using its shadow to attack the caldera. How much more risky do you think it's going to be when fires are burning everywhere and standing in shadow becomes exceedingly difficult?

Ofcourse the other issue is that we'd have to you know be inside of the grobi town with this plan meaning all the orcs will be able to see what we're doing and attack us and we'll be completely surrounded. In terms of failure states possible this plan is far more likely to end up with a dead Mathilde.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
How would Mathilde carry enough accelerant to burn a town? More than that how is mathilde going to get in and outsafely? People have raised the question of the danger of merely standing near the citadel and using its shadow to attack the caldera. How much more risky do you think it's going to be when fires are burning everywhere and standing in shadow becomes exceedingly difficult?
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Well for one we have immunity from fire, so if we need to retreat we can literally run into the blaze without much issue while the enemy has to deal with being on fire. So the larger the fire gets the easier our retreat gets as it opens up more escape paths for Mathilde.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
How would Mathilde carry enough accelerant to burn a town? More than that how is mathilde going to get in and outsafely? People have raised the question of the danger of merely standing near the citadel and using its shadow to attack the caldera. How much more risky do you think it's going to be when fires are burning everywhere and standing in shadow becomes exceedingly difficult?
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I mean people have already brought up the fact that dwarf ale is apparently some pretty serious stuff. If we can't use that I am sure that the dwarfs have something else we can use to start a bunch of fires. If they don't they we can gather some of the extra tents we have no more need for as we have mountains and great kindling from them.

We will have all of our shadow spells like Aethyric Armour so we really won't be in anymore danger than when we dived head first into the battle of east gate. And as has been stated as the flames grows so too do our safe spaces. Kragg is so nice to us making us flame proof.
 
Again flame proof is only one part of the issue. Mathilde isn't going to be immune to the side effects of things burning like smoke inhalation. She just wont get burned or have her lungs roasted but if you want to tell me that smoke and toxins she'll be inhaling wont hamper her I'd be curious as to why you think that. Any serious fire is going to be a problem for her even with her not literally being hurt by the heat.



Neshuakadal said:
I mean people have already brought up the fact that dwarf ale is apparently some pretty serious stuff.
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Sure, not try carrying enough to be of significant use. Mathilde is not a strong lady and she's pretty small over all even carrying a backpack with say ten kg keg of the stuff will be difficult, thankfully she's not going to be tiring due to her armour but she's not strong enough to carry huge quantities of accelerant. This plan you're voting for will not have any where near the effect that burning shadows plan will have and it's more dangerous besides.
 
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[x] Plan Light Everything On Fire And Kill Things
-[x] Propose lighting as much of Grobi Town on fire as possible, using whatever combination of your personal sneaking, magic to help others sneak, ranger sneaking, halfling sneaking, top-class dwarven incendiary technology, artillery-hurled incendiaries, and other means the war council can cook up.
-[x] Ensure in particular that the portions closest to the Citadel entrance are lit up so that reinforcing the Citadel becomes difficult to impossible without charging into the flames.
-[x] Combine with assassinations for additional confusion and to ensure lack of an organized response.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Immunity to burning isn't immunity to smoke.
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While smoke could certainly be an issue, this isn't an enclosed area that can easily be filled with smoke. I'd imagine that with her mobility Mathilde could quite easily move out of area particularly dense with smoke before it becomes an issue.

SuperSonicSound said:
Again flame proof is only one part of the issue. Mathilde isn't going to be immune to the side effects of things burning like smoke inhalation. She just wont get burned or have her lungs roasted but if you want to tell me that smoke and toxins she'll be inhaling wont hamper her I'd be curious as to why you think that. Any serious fire is going to be a problem for her even with her not literally being hurt by the heat.
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Anything that won't result in her getting killed instantly shouldn't be too much of a problem, since worst comes to worst we have access to the Seed to heal such damage and with the chaos of the fire we should be able to relatively easily recharge it.
 
We have some irondrakes in the army if I remember right?? So what if we ask the dwarves to rig up some bombs place them in clay pots filled with irondrake fule and make a few trips into the caldera place them on the roofs of the tallest buildings for max spread then use our cute journymanlings like our gold order man to cast fire or metal heating spells like crazy into the town
Point being we don't have to do it in one trip we can just keep sneaking in spreading the accelerants around the town
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Immunity to burning isn't immunity to smoke.
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Smoke is at it's most dangerous in enclosed spaces when you are trapped by heat. If you keep moving smoke rises fast enough that it's not going to be a serious problem. Being able to walk through flames also allows us to always move away from the worst of the smoke. I would not be too concerned about smoke inhalation since I doubt Mathilde will be trapped in smoky enclosed spaces when the heat doesn't bother her.
 
Information: A brief note about Rule 2 and infractions
  • Staff Post
    • a brief note about rule 2 and infractions
    Good morning.

    I want to first express a small touch of disappointment. When I locked the thread yesterday afternoon, I received a number of questions about when it would be unlocked and as a result I tried to have it looked at asap, so that it could be unlocked promptly. It was in fact unlocked after only about six hours, but on the basis that the infractions and threadbans would be handed out to six users when moderators could get around to doing them.

    Unfortunately, of those six users, @random_npc (here), @10ebbor10 (here), @undead frog (here) decided to continue posting anyway. As a result, I've threadbanned them all for two weeks under Rule 5.

    Separately from that, I mentioned in my post that I had concerns with Rule 2 issues. Let me lay out those concerns now.

    Rule 2 is merely "don't be hateful". That's a simple statement, and at the end of the day, what it means is that it is against the rules to do anything which denies respect and dignity to individuals as a result of religious, racial, or ethnic characteristics, or argues for a society that does so.

    Rule 2 also encompasses statements relating to fiction. Though fictional societies and individuals do not need and are not entitled to the protection of the rules, someone who makes statements about fictional people that would violate Rule 2 normalize the behavior we are seeking to prevent. It's the literary equivalent of going "it's just a joke, bro".

    In this particular case, there are a series of posts - this one, this one, this one, and this one, among others - that make me feel deeply uncomfortable about the way some posters are handling the issue here.

    Let me be clear. It is no adequate defense to say that a race or group in fiction was written to be entirely evil or irredeemable or that it exists only to be an acceptable target for killing. Nor is it adequate to say that they "can't be anything other than what they are". Not so long ago, those very arguments were used to justify the enslavement and torture of blacks and other minorities in our own world - and undoubtedly they will continue to be used to justify horrors.

    In short, fiction is a choice. The way characters, individuals, groups, races, ethnicities and religions are written is a choice of the author. It is not fixed in stone. If the author decides to create a black-and-white caricature for the purpose of doing violence to it, that is unacceptable.

    As we have said before, this is a particularly sensitive issue in quests, where we expect the QMs to keep a fairly firm handle not only on their own writing, but also on their community participation to prevent it from drifting into unacceptable areas.

    I have handed out a few infractions but I want it to be clear that this is a warning to everyone that if this behavior reoccurs, I will take stronger action.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • SuperSonicSound said:
    Sure, not try carrying enough to be of significant use. Mathilde is not a strong lady and she's pretty small over all even carrying a backpack with say ten kg keg of the stuff will be difficult, thankfully she's not going to be tiring due to her armour but she's not strong enough to carry huge quantities of accelerant. This plan you're voting for will not have any where near the effect that burning shadows plan will have and it's more dangerous besides.
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    So you don't need enough accelerant to start every house on fire. All you really need to do is get one house, maybe two, on fire then shoddy construction takes care of the rest. I mean the great Chicago fire started from a cow kicking over a lantern, supposedly, and near burned down the city. The fires of London gutted it. I doubt the goblins have the necessary policies to combat fires. Once the fire gets even a little out of control then I doubt it can be stopped. Didn't BoneyM state that the caldera was one giant goblin town with houses stacked on top of each other? If a fire gets out of control, which we want to make happen, the goblin death count will magnitudes more than burning shadow could ever do.
     
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