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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Staff Notice (Rule 2 infraction, reduced on appeal)
Jyn Ryvia said:
No, see that's one thing, enjoying killing your enemy's or torturing them for a reasons or revenge is very Warhammer human. But seeing your pals get off on that stuff for the sake of it is the problem, it's not the things done to the Greenskins that is disturbing, it's the look on the Dwarves faces that should be the problem.
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Why?
 
qwolfs said:
He is literally disregarding the rights of all dissenting voters to have a different opinion from him. He has done this consistently and is now trying to make himself out be a marter oppressed by the overwhelming, hateful majority of this thread who lie, cheat, trick and connive to turn the vote against his rightful design. It's fucking absurd and deserves to be called for what it is.
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random_npc said:
yes, like all speak voters I am an idot fool fit only for contempt and pity, on this point there is consensus. Not sure why you felt that was worth retreading given the amount of elaboration it has already received.

but to address your other point, I did not claim to be neutral. I merely pointed out that if your getting criticized for X, assuming that the propel doing it are hypocritical fools, rather than having a point bout X is not a great approach.
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It does not matter now. Vote is over. Time for calling things out is likewise over. Please drop the subject. It just is not worth continuing.

I think most of everyone would rather focus on other things rather that bringing up irritating elements of a quest once again.
 
Mopman43 said:
The Empire isn't really Medieval, more like 1600s.
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Not really. The only real tech they have is gunpowder, which existed IRL by the 9th century and was all over Europe by the 13th. They've got the Steam Tanks, but they've had them for at least half a millennium, and not been able to crack steam power.

It's also notable that IIRC, when the Window Tax was instituted in the Empire, the poor were made to pay, not by actually having windows, but by the tax collectors kicking holes in their houses and calling them windows.
 
Rule 2 - Dehumanization
Jyn Ryvia said:
No, see that's one thing, enjoying killing your enemy's or torturing them for a reasons or revenge is very Warhammer human. But seeing your pals get off on that stuff for the sake of it is the problem, it's not the things done to the Greenskins that is disturbing, it's the look on the Dwarves faces that should be the problem.
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Did you literally just make the argument that it's okay when we do it, but not when other people do it?

Rafin said:
Even if that is true, that just means that they are a sentient people with a genetic mental disease. In which case even if exterminating them for the good of the world were the least bad option with any chance of success, torturing them in ways that are in no way reducing the damage they di is still wrong.
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If we really want to go down the gritty realism road, I'd note that soldiers have regularly committed much worse acts upon much less deserving "opponents" since time immemorial. I am personally just going to take it as a given that the fantasy race of pure evil having cruel things done to them is amusing and not think about it too much, in much the same way that I don't get outraged when I see a "bunny suicides" comic book.
 
Rafin said:
Are you saying that a section of voters here actually deserve to be punished in form of spite votes? Really?
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I could have sworn my post only talked about how reacting to criticism by assuming those criticizing you where idot hypocrites was a bad idea, and did not really go into the validity of protest voting. must be remembering wrong.
 
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Rule 2 - Dehumanization is not acceptable.
Rafin said:
Even if that is true, that just means that they are a sentient people with a genetic mental disease. In which case even if exterminating them for the good of the world were the least bad option with any chance of success, torturing them in ways that are in no way reducing the damage they di is still wrong.
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*WotK Quest instincts acting up here.*

While sentient, Greenskins aren't actually People due to a lack of sophonce, but Monsters. Sophonce is the ability to self-reflect, or think about one's thinking, and the Greenskins never had that. A Greenskin will never consider doing anything other than fighting and killing every non-Greenskin they can find (aside from maybe enslaving some to force to work/torment for the larfs.)

Sentience is extremely basic, just being the ability to experience things and learn from them. Monsters are sentient and sapient, but lack sophonce, and in fact, see it as a weakness (such as Vlad wanting to turn the Empire into Undead servants, since unlike humans, they generally can't fall to Chaos, or how Orcs laugh at Humies and such for 'Mukkin' about' instead of fighting.)
 
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Stop: Rule 3 is there for a reason.
  • Staff Post
    • this has been quite enough and we would like it to stop.
    In the interests of not keeping this thread locked longer than needed, we're going to open things back up with the following initial findings on the civility issues:

    @qwolfs / @random_npc / @Deathbybunnies - All three of you decided that taking direct shots at another Questor was entirely acceptable, a decision that is most assuredly wrong. In the future, please remember that there are ways to disagree with someone without elevating them to insults. You will all be receiving 25 points under Rule 3 and a week away from the thread. Please use more care and consideration when posting in the future.

    lesser evils are still evils.
    @Alectai - It's clear you care a great deal about this vote, but over the course of multiple posts you've painted your opponents with a broad, unpleasant brush. In the future, please be more cognizant of your posting and take care not to insult large swathes of your fellow questers. You'll be getting three days off from the thread, please let it encourage you to calm down a little and return to your enjoyment of this Quest.

    @undead frog / @10ebbor10 - You both made posts that added nothing good to this argument and should remember that sniping at another user is not the best way to conduct yourselves. Please act with more thoughtfulness in the future. You will also be getting three days off from the thread.

    this will not be the end of this, sadly.
    As already noted, there will be a followup posting in regards to any possible Rule 2 violations in the thread as well. Do not resume the discussion about how genocide and torture isn't THAT bad, you guys. We're trusting you to behave in order to keep the thread moving.
     
  • Staff Post
    • ...right. Well I have a lore question. I keep reading refrences in various threads how dwarfs need decades to build something to their specifications, but at the same time I read how dwarfs build things rapidly. Am I just misreading one of the two options or is there just inconsistency?
     
    maximorph said:
    ...right. Well I have a lore question. I keep reading refrences in various threads how dwarfs need decades to build something to their specifications, but at the same time I read how dwarfs build things rapidly. Am I just misreading one of the two options or is there just inconsistency?
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    Probably inconsistency. Naturally, individual dwares can vary, but Warhammer has a lot of contradictory stuff even for those with strong imaginations.
     
    maximorph said:
    ...right. Well I have a lore question. I keep reading refrences in various threads how dwarfs need decades to build something to their specifications, but at the same time I read how dwarfs build things rapidly. Am I just misreading one of the two options or is there just inconsistency?
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    Dwarfs will rapidly build a piece of architecture, then grumble about how they'll need to tear it down and do it right. Despite the first bit being perfectly serviceable.
     
    EVA-Saiyajin said:
    Let's move on as better people from this.

    Do Warpgut trolls have any official or semi-official TT stats anywhere, far as anyone knows?
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    I don't know of any. I suppose the closest comparison with any sort of statline I know of would be Chaos Trolls, which are said to have everything (strength, aggression, toughness, regeneration, vomit) all better than regular Trolls.

    Come to think of it, didn't Gotrek and Felix fight a really big and surprisingly smart Warpstone/Chaos Troll in Eight Peaks? I could swear that was a thing in one of the books.
     
    maximorph said:
    ...right. Well I have a lore question. I keep reading refrences in various threads how dwarfs need decades to build something to their specifications, but at the same time I read how dwarfs build things rapidly. Am I just misreading one of the two options or is there just inconsistency?
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    Or, one could say they are capable of building very rapidly, but they have exacting specifications for what they want. So building rapidly might be "good enough", if with a lot of grumbling, but "satisfactory" is a much bigger, more exacting process.
     
    maximorph said:
    ...right. Well I have a lore question. I keep reading refrences in various threads how dwarfs need decades to build something to their specifications, but at the same time I read how dwarfs build things rapidly. Am I just misreading one of the two options or is there just inconsistency?
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    I always thought of the extra time taken as needed to do things to a dwarven standard, while the quick stuff counts as a patch job to them.
     
    Chimeraguard said:
    I don't know of any. I suppose the closest comparison with any sort of statline I know of would be Chaos Trolls, which are said to have everything (strength, aggression, toughness, regeneration, vomit) all better than regular Trolls.

    Come to think of it, didn't Gotrek and Felix fight a really big and surprisingly smart Warpstone/Chaos Troll in Eight Peaks? I could swear that was a thing in one of the books.
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    They did indeed. They also encountered Warpgut trolls as mutated by Aekold Hellbrass, part of Throgg's breeding program, in Kinslayer.
     
    Chimeraguard said:
    I don't know of any. I suppose the closest comparison with any sort of statline I know of would be Chaos Trolls, which are said to have everything (strength, aggression, toughness, regeneration, vomit) all better than regular Trolls.

    Come to think of it, didn't Gotrek and Felix fight a really big and surprisingly smart Warpstone/Chaos Troll in Eight Peaks? I could swear that was a thing in one of the books.
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    EVA-Saiyajin said:
    They did indeed. They also encountered Warpgut trolls as mutated by Aekold Hellbrass, part of Throgg's breeding program, in Kinslayer.
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    I was thinking of Chaos Trolls too, though I can't find a stat line.
     
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