Unless they're fire goblins.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I'm agreed, it's silly to throw away a nearly unique opportunity to do some major damage because some one else could use finite resources to potentially do the same. We're not going to get another chance to pull something like this off and allowing Kragg to save his resources for another time is eminently sensible.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Uh, no? I'm pretty sure Mathilde knows that runes aren't used up when you call upon them. Especially as Kragg was definitely recasting that lightning thing during the big battle.
That just means he has multiple examples of lightning runes.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Incorrect. Many runes are one time use or expendable.
You can notice how tactful she was around the subject - there's no slight to make a reaction roll to.
Without a ritual it's va ten-goblin-killer spell, not hundreds-orks-killer.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
It could, but I seem to remember Mathilde seeing his Anvil being covered with lots of different runes.
Also, using meta knowledge, he can't. Rule of Pride prevents it I believe.
I welcome an example of those then, because the only one I'm aware of is the Spelleater, and even that I always assumed just had a recharge condition, so it was once per battle rather than once ever.
It does not scale with ritual or no, it scales with the size of the shadow.
- Location
- Austria
Wait, are they really expendable?
Alright then, this....is infortunate.
Still, Mathilde is not the best person to do Battle Wizard thing; I think it is better to spend every second we have on prebattle disruption like false rumours, starting infighting and beheading anyone liable to be able to unite orks.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Here's two preeminent examples of temporary runes. All runes can be generally be made in a temporary fashion, but they usually aren't some can only be made that way. Others which aren't part of the 2E book might well have recharge times. We also know that Kragg factured his anvil so he probably doesn't want to be using it in the short term.
In this instance she is though, because she doesn't have to use battle magic she can use burning shadows to literally hit most of the caldera where the grobi are and burn them. This is a huge chance to really hit massive numbers of green skins with little risk.
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Beyond a certain size it doesn't.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
As long as ritual casting is a possibility in the plan. I feel like the plan is too risky. I look at plans with a risk reward mindset. I look at the entire plan. The burning shadows plan seems like a decent plan. I don't like waiting but that is really the only gripe I have with it other than that small section about ritual casting.
That ritual casting segment completely throws the risk reward analysis. The ritual casting seems to achieve the exact same effect as normal casting. Both options stall the greenskins from reinforcing the citadel. The ritual casting may stall them longer but we could just cast burning shadows again. Having two rolls with minimal risk is far better than 1 roll with massive risk. The plan seems to be adding a great deal of unnecessary risk for little to no reward.
It seems to me that people just want to ritual cast in order to be cool when the simpler, safer, and just as effective solution is to just not ritual cast and do it normally.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Here's two preeminent examples of temporary runes. All runes can be generally be made in a temporary fashion, but they usually aren't some can only be made that way. Others which aren't part of the 2E book might well have recharge times. We also know that Kragg factured his anvil so he probably doesn't want to be using it in the short term.
So, all of two runes? I also dislike leaning into the RPG too heavily as the way lore is presented in that against the army books is odd, and I favour the ABs. Plus there's been two editions since then, so that might not even be true anymore.
Fair point about the anvil, but it's equally possible Kragg will decide he can handle it, or that this is low enough risk. That would probably be something to ask him about.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Vaguely disappointed in y'all that "One Mathilde Wide" is not a tag.
Yes, but Kragg can't do the one thing that really recommends Burning Shadows here, which is area-denial the entire enemy-facing side of the Citadel, preventing anyone from even reaching it without a hell of a ward save.
Yes, but Kragg can't do the one thing that really recommends Burning Shadows here, which is area-denial the entire enemy-facing side of the Citadel, preventing anyone from even reaching it without a hell of a ward save.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Nah I just grabbed the first two I saw, there's others. Rune of Fate for example. Also with the lore being expanded here because it's not limited to what little is available things like Runes that require time to recharge from the local winds of magic are absolutely possible. Runes that cause lightning strikes are not going to be of the infinite use kind because the power has to come from some where. Either it charges slowly over time or it expends its self.
It really doesn't to me. All it takes to break it is ten goblins with bows turning, and then we're down, with our back to the enemy-controlled wall and waiting for a horde to charge.
- Location
- Austria
Here's two preeminent examples of temporary runes. All runes can be generally be made in a temporary fashion, but they usually aren't some can only be made that way. Others which aren't part of the 2E book might well have recharge times. We also know that Kragg factured his anvil so he probably doesn't want to be using it in the short term.
In this instance she is though, because she doesn't have to use battle magic she can use burning shadows to literally hit most of the caldera where the grobi are and burn them. This is a huge chance to really hit massive numbers of green skins with little risk.
This...sounds ambitious.
Can we really do it like this?
Because this is ridiculous if true - means that grey wizards are horrifying in mountains and can ape Battle Wizard tier spells without any of the risks so long there is a big enough shadow.
Where is the catch?
Well outside of having to stand in the open for it to work and being vulnerable to anyone outside of shadow AoE.
I don't remember that, could you provide a quote?
Mountains don't work, they are part of the planet, it has to be a structure or object.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
The catch is timing, terrain and general vulnerability. Lots of things have to line up for it to be possible so it only gives narrow windows of opportunity. Also yea what DP said it has to be a shadow cast by a structure. Which the Citadel is.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Then all runes would be limited use, because they all need power. Plus, it's been at least a day, so the even if the runes charge over time, nothing says they haven't recharged already.
Lovely idea, but the spell only works on non-natural things. Mountains/hills etc don't work.
You're going to need some good evidence to prove that Mathilde can do it with shadows of any distance. The spells are based on Realms of Sorcery and we know the distance is limited there (within 18 yards).
Realms of Sorcery said:
Also I recall vaguely about how the one time we stretched it super far it was considered special circumstance and not to expect it to happen again.
On top of that intuitive sense would indicate that using magic with a massive shadow would be harder than with a small one.
Can't find a quote, but it's based on a tabletop spell that has a very limited area of effect, and it's not battle magic.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
There's a difference in scale of effect being proposed. Most runes can keep working indefinitely because they're always sucking up ambient winds they just need a trickle to work.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
That's an assumption you're making, not necessarily canon. Even if it's true, the point that those lightning runes are likely able to recharge is still valid, and means Kragg's runes aren't finite. They just have a cooldown.