- Location
- Australia
Is the literature with the overdone armaments from other Library of Mourning books or is that drawing from non-Eonir books on the elven gods?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The Light Order interprets it as the Serpent of Light, yeah. Whether that's a direct link or a coincidence is an open question, as the pattern doesn't extend to all the other arms - the Ambers and the Arrow is another easy fit, but the Celestials see their Rune as the Comet, the Greys as the Sword of Judgement, the Jades as the Coil of Life, and the Amethysts as the Scythe.
(Brights with the Key of Secrets and Golds with the Mortar and Pestle round out the eight, for those that are curious)
General knowledge about Elven Gods, that and the epithet 'Hydra Queen' are the most surface-level facts about Hekarti.
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I think the ROFR here is only in the contracting phase for manpower right? Mathilde still gets to decide whether they get put? Or since the Project is finished at that point would it become the empire's problem?
Think the unfairness of the deal is because of this? I imagine the guy is diplomacy specced add to that he's an elf, combine that with Mathilde's diplomacy and I think it would be realistic to portray this as the only outcome. Or would Boney roll it still if it was?
Huh, I was expecting this to be a rename of a djinn, I was not expecting a floating frog let me tell you.
Think it's based off of this
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It can easily be argued that them working on contingency and that the price they demand is that they do even more work is absurdly generous.
- Location
- Utrecht
That's my read on it.
We know they can't do it alone, because otherwise there would be no point to the project.
Optimistically, they just want to make Hekarti shrines all over the world.
Pessimistically, they want to monopolize the knowledge, so that when this generation of human participants dies out, they are the only ones with the knowledge left.
- Location
- Australia
Isn't the Golds' rune called the Soaring Eagle?
- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is by far my favoured option, I think we need to consider the practical implications of letting them build waystones outside of Laurelorn. We don't know these Elves or how their House thinks and so we don't know how they'll approach waystones they've claimed the right to build. Ideally they'd be quick and efficient and get them up ASAP but for all we know they consider a centuries delay an acceptable amount of time to put off starting work on a stone. Or some other problem will pop up. If they are building the waystones in Laurelorn then any problems or delays in construction will be something their queen will settle internally, if they are building them in the Empire or beyond those issues can cause tension between the Empire and Laurelorn potentially even cause issues for Mathilde/the waystone project.
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I don't think they could monopolize the knowledge if they wanted to. if we ever get so far as building waystones then all members of the project will go home with a copy on the how to. I'm also twirls certain that we would do some test waystones to see if it works.
Also for the people who think these would just lay back and do nothing until the project is completed,do you really think Mathilde would allow that?
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm skeptical the "right of first refusal" would still apply when you claim something and then seemingly do nothing with it(centuries delay), that sounds like a blatant legal loophole that would have to be prevented with basically any "right of first refusal" agreement.
I do agree the practical implications of them having right of first refusal outside of Laurelorn are something to think about, though.
It probably would be something like "you have the right of first refusal to the contract of building waystones in this timespan (insert appropriate timespan here)"
- Location
- France
Proposed plan:
[ ] Plan Fundamental Research
- [ ] [SCOPE] The Old World (+4)
- [ ] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [ ] [FORM] Secular (-2)
Explanation:
House Tindomiel isn't just there for its political connexions. It's also there because they're the heads of the Cult of the Goddess of Magic, and therefore likely have a whole bunch of magical lore (if filtered through the weird elven religious lens). They're also the most likely to have excellent general theoretical groundwork - it's true that the Grey Lords have amazing magical skill and do cool forest/dimensional stuff, let's not forget that house Tindomiel has a literal theological attachment to magic itself and not necessarily to actually completing practical goals with it. I think Tindomiel are an important and valuable perspective to add to the project, and we specifically need their Magical Theorist.
Meanwhile, Secular is IMO super important to avoid having big problems with the rollout of the Waystones later.
[ ] Plan Fundamental Research
- [ ] [SCOPE] The Old World (+4)
- [ ] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [ ] [FORM] Secular (-2)
Explanation:
House Tindomiel isn't just there for its political connexions. It's also there because they're the heads of the Cult of the Goddess of Magic, and therefore likely have a whole bunch of magical lore (if filtered through the weird elven religious lens). They're also the most likely to have excellent general theoretical groundwork - it's true that the Grey Lords have amazing magical skill and do cool forest/dimensional stuff, let's not forget that house Tindomiel has a literal theological attachment to magic itself and not necessarily to actually completing practical goals with it. I think Tindomiel are an important and valuable perspective to add to the project, and we specifically need their Magical Theorist.
Meanwhile, Secular is IMO super important to avoid having big problems with the rollout of the Waystones later.
- Location
- Utrecht
The Truth about what they want is probably somewhere in between
2e Realms of Sorcery has the first listed Symbol be for their interpretation of the Rune, and this gives the Mortar and Pestle for the Rune of Chamon, which I can very easily see. Storm of Magic infoboxes match the above for every Wind but Chamon, where it gives the Soaring Eagle. I can't for the life of me see any sort of eagle in the Rune of Chamon, so I went with the former.
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- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sure if they unreasonably delay that's an obvious abuse, my point is that an unreasonable delay to an elf and to a human are likely to be wildly different. Consider that humans would be dropping out of the waystone project if we weren't starting it while elves still haven't worked out how to start approaching Mathilde in the context of their society. We cannot assume that our idea of reasonable and theirs matches up and that will cause issues if they view it us humans reneging on the deal while humans view it as elves taking the piss.
Ah right.
So they are working on the assumption of the Project being unlikely? The contingency here is the Project succeeding, but we're working on the assumption it will so it's more of a condition. Which makes it less generous from the opposite perspective.
Which means that I admit to being biased for expecting the Project to succeed and that from a practical standpoint it is absurdly generous.
Practically, this isn't worth consideration. We have Cython who can be trusted to not act on the information, and most importantly the dwarves. Since I'm sure there's an agreement that could be made for Dwarves to just remind humanity every couple generations, I don't think it's likely for the elves to even plan on it.
Unimportant because they would be dealing with humans. the delay is not from the pov of the contractor but the owner who put up the contract.
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- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So we just explain to them that we don't care what they think, our opinion is the only one that matters and you think this will avoid a diplomatic incident? This is not about who is objectively right it is about making an agreement where the two sides may have different ideas on what the agreement even is. Saying well I think I'm right isn't going to make those issues go away.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
You know... I can't help but draw parallels between this and how the story delved into the developments of Morgrim's simple machines in the passing of history, in a way that has me comparing Thungni's runelore as the mathematics/computations to Morgrim's mechanics.
I can picture a world where every piece of the runic theory must be justified and given a proof by previously established Principles of Thingni's Lore, but as long as new "meditations" go and actually do that work, you can go an incredibly long way just building off the first and most basic principles and axioms. Alas, I would also presume such a philosophical landscape would have been lost with the passing of the Dwarves' Golden Age.
Tower of Melkhior—Melkhior was apprentice to and the first Necrarch created by W'soran, and was the one who named the linage "Necrarch" after killing and consuming his master. He apparently could interact with the spirit world (similar to hedgemagic?) as well as standard necromancy stuff. He had a secret tower in the forest of shadows. He went mad and was eventually defeated by his student Zacharias, and now Melkhior slumbers until he has the strength to take revenge against his student. EDIT: This might not have happened yet. It is implied in Time of Legends that Melkhior is actually dead, and his body is now possessed by the spirit of W'soran.
Blood Fane—a waystone covered in blood and surrounded by the grim remains of countless people, all sacrificed to Khorne. It is claimed by the Chaos Warrior Bogoslav Tammas, who has dedicated the location to Khorne after slaying the previous keeper (an ageing beastman), and abducts people from the surrounding area to sacrifice to the Blood God. He is apparently gathering an army of beastmen as well. However, Bogoslav didn't arrive at the waystone until after the Siege of Bohsenfels, which I think happened in 2515?, which is during the Storm of Chaos, so he might not be there yet and it might be protected by the ageing beastman (who's probably not old yet) instead of him.
Those both sound like things we need to do, especially if we need to restore the flow of energy from Kislev. Routing all that power into a vampires lair and Khornite alter would be very very bad.
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- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I doubt that such things wouldn't be taken into consideration when writing a legal agreement. I mean, you're gonna need to write in an expiry date regardless to prevent a loophole, and once that discussion comes up we're obviously not going to agree to a centuries long expiry date.
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Anyway, uh, could someone remind me of what we know about Atarthi, beyond being the Goddess of Seduction apparently?
And did we have any suspicions of her potentially being one of the Daughters? It occurs to me that one could construe House Tindomiel's dealings here as being absurdly confident in the Waystone Project's ability to succeed... They're willing to dedicate not insignificant resources in exchange for a payoff that will only occur if the Project is overwhelmingly successful.
Trusting someone isn't mutually exclusive with making very large demands in negotations with them.
EDIT: @mathymancer
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- Location
- Utrecht
And lost runes could serve as proofs of lost principles that can be used to reverse engineer other lost lore, which can unlock other combinations.
...your issue is that they might delay for a century.my point is that if they try that on empire land by empire contract they will not have that contract for long.right of first refusal is literally just that,a right to be the first to refuse a contract, not to change the contract. So if a contract says "build a waystones here by then" and they can't do it? (Presuming that the details aren't too outrageous aka no building a waystones in a day or some bs) then they either have to refuse or try it anyway and see what contract damages they get...
Of course they can do that crap in Laurelton if they want but I'm betting the ruling council would step on them as well.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Bearing in mind that according to the timeline in the 8th edition VC army book, Zacharias hasn't defeated Melkhior yet and is still his apprentice.
Short version: Goddess of Passion, and patron of the arts. Might be the human god Vylmar, God of Decadence, Drinking and Debauchery, who is currently outlawed under the suspicion of actually being Slaanesh.
Ah, the Wiki made it sound like that had happened in the ancient past, not something more recent.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I think the books make it sound like something in the ancient past.
But, the only explicit date I've ever seen given for Zacharias running from Melkhior after trying to read his Book of Nagash is 2506.