Kragg's rune cannot be set to spar when rune the unknown is used, is that what you mean? I can't say I understand why that would be, but I guess that could be it.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Codex
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I think that it's because you can only deactivate all runes, not selectively deactivate one rune out of three. It's all or nothing.
Whats the ranking system for Witch Hunters? They get called that collectively, but it's got to be a diferent sort that investigates Royal Wizards as apposed to torching local necromancers.
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But we have word of Boney (from today) that turning off the Master Rune of Kragg the Grimm (to spar nonlethally) means we can't use the Rune of the Unknown to Practice Branarhune, which leads me to think the off switch is for the whole sword, not selective runes.
Codex
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They're all Witch Hunters, but there are dozens of different organisations. There is a group in canon 2E called the Seekers, constructed by a shitty Grand Theogonist named Esmer after Volkmar's "death", where they explicitly seek out and attempt to implicate official Wizards and torch them. They tend to hunt the more vulnerable ones like Journeymen and Apprentices over the higher level mages who can protect themselves.
pucflek
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The evidence is that they has not replaced them.
I admit i was touch more aggressive in that argument than i should have been, but if tributaries could replace them, Laurelorn would not contact us for help with their waystones, considering they could already replant the entire area that they got from Nordland back and still contacted us after.
If the answer to "Waystone network is failing" was "Quick, plant trees" it would not be the massive looming civilization ending problem it is.
Virtually everything we know about waystones so far says so. The ambient level of Dhar near Karag Dum, the way winds behave in K8P. Tributaries can enlarge the area waystone covers, thats what being a tributary means, but if they could make do without them, world wouldn't be staring down its eventual doom few thousand years down the line.
Its literally the entire lore of Waystones as presented. The Stones manage their work just fine, but they are disappearing to attrition and noone can replace them. There is, of course, adjacent stuff that later civilizations built that certainly helps, but, once again, if it could make do without the actual Waystones to handle the load, this wouldn't be as much of a problem.
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Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
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I was merely using a simple example on how it's possible to have a single success state and multiple failure states.
In response to the quote I quoted.
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Your examples all sound like rubbing out of power rather than being deactivated? I wonder if the "sparring setting" on our sword just consists of using it a bunch to burn through that power it had and then storing it in a place it can't passively recharge.
...no, it still would be, because none of the trees would survive without huge ongoing efforts. Like, you are ignoring all the practical considerations preventing this from being rolled out and insisting the fact that it hasn't been means there is a fundemental flaw. I disagree.
As far as I know the distinction between 'waystone' and 'tributary' is unique to this quest? And we don't actually know even in quest what the actual differences in functionality are?
And we DONT KNOW YET how waystones work, so I'd very much like you to stop presenting your hypothesis as fact. It excludes other, potentially more valuable, theories from being floated.
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IIRC It's because Kragg's rune is on by default and blinking the sword in and out, which is what the fighting style is based on, resets it every time it comes back.
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- Finland
I think that there was some reference in Felix and Gotrek novels to activating specific rune in a runic weapon.
At least i have very vague memories towards something like that.
But that could have been an exception (Gotrek's axe is not an average runic weapon), or related to the fact that the person referenced might have been a runesmith.
Or maybe the rune itself was special, i dunno.
I have read the novels in years.
At least i have very vague memories towards something like that.
But that could have been an exception (Gotrek's axe is not an average runic weapon), or related to the fact that the person referenced might have been a runesmith.
Or maybe the rune itself was special, i dunno.
I have read the novels in years.
pucflek
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We do know how waystones work? We don't understand how they do what they do but their function is extremely clear? They gather ambient magic and send it en route to Ulthuan. They form the streams of magic to which the Trees and Henges are a tributary. Thats literally what being a tributary goddamn means, its self evident language usage.
It would be a question of logistics, not of possibility. The trees themselves are already engineered breed so clearly the Laurelorn possesses the means to adjust them. That they haven't is a sign that they probably cannot.
I have, for the record, i none of my posts, mentioned that if we made the trees fuckhuge to have bigger draw area and able to thrive in any climate and substrate that could be a success.
Honestly, i don't even know why i am arguing against that, if rolling out the trees is so difficult, then its clearly better to focus on waystones and henges anyway.
EDIT: Like, seriously, if the answer laid in the trees, then we will literally never solve it because the Laurelorn had them for longer than Empire existed and if it could be done they would have already. Instead they asked for our help in bringing some waystones online.
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Codex
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I'm pretty sure the novels do whatever they want. Maximilian Schreiber from the Gotrek and Felix novels is apparently able to wield Light, Shadow and Jade magic, and he used to be from the Golden Order.
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Drat, if theres one thing everyone says about Greenskins its that there are never enough of them when you need a couple dozen.
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Well, as long as he has no arcane marks, that is technically possible.
But considering the runic weapon was the axe of an ancestor god, the normal rules may not apply.
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How are streams of magic separated from ambient magic and directed over large differences? What is the functional difference between a tributary and a henge? Are they the same but for positioning? If not, why not? Are concentration henges needed for the flow to ulthan, or do tributaries do the job but with a lower volume? How are waystones programed as to where to direct thier streams of magic?
Do all waystones form magic into streams in the same manner? Can a waystone be moved to a new location and reactivated, or will it attempt to send power to the old location's henge and not the new one?
Many, many unanswered questions that are directly relevant to your claims.
No. It isn't. It's a sign that there are issues preventing it, but to assume that it must be your one specific issue is unsupported.
As noted, they were fine until the empire cut down all of the trees. And they know that the empire will almost definitely cut down all the trees that they regrow, as soon as they can get away with it, because the trees are low-key covered in gold and silver.
It seems like the problem they are trying to solve is human greed wrecking their system, not that the system doesn't work.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
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They aren't. I don't need to know chemical composition of black powder to know the principle behind gun shooting. It doesn't let me build the gun or the bullets or mix the black powder, but its enough to judge that.
For the same reason i don't need to understand how the trees and the henges and the waystones do what they do with magic to know that they send it to ulthuan and to know what a tributary is.
If they could, they would make trees that don't grow on gold and silver so that people would stop felling them with such ferocity because they know there is precious material underneath instead of facing their extinction.
Like, assuming the polity that literally molded the forest in their image to not being able to figure out something to do with growing trees and expecting us to help is assuming massive incompetence on behalf of Laurelorn.
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- Location
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Here's what we start with:
The Waystones are built on top of leylines, which are natural channels along which magic flows. Henges are built at intersections, and direct those flows towards other destinations. A tributary is any other flow of magic that leads into these natural/waystone enhanced flows, like Cadaeth's Lornalim trees.
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
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[X] [LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Apparitions, Power Stones, Forest Spirits, Liminal Realms
I'm much more interested in stocking up on things we know are relevant to what we're doing than random backfill of probably mundane topics.
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir, A dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen
Sure, why not.
I'm much more interested in stocking up on things we know are relevant to what we're doing than random backfill of probably mundane topics.
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir, A dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen
Sure, why not.
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So if a Lornalim tree was planted on a leyline, why would it not be a waystone?
Henges appear to do traffic control as well as the other functions, but it's unclear if that is just because they are at crossing leylines or if additional functions were built in.
I'm just trying to make the point that we DON'T KNOW how this stuff works or if we even have the proper categories for the components yet.
We need to research it before we can make claims that aren't just speculation.
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Because trees are not stones, therefore it's a Waytree. But that's the only qualitative difference. In function, they are the same thing, but the trees we've seen happen to be much smaller in scale. Cadaeth confirmed that what they do is very similar to what the Belthani standing stones do:
And as for what the Belthani stones did:
So while Mathilde isn't able to confirm the exact details of everything, and we don't know the mechanics of how, we have a good enough picture that we can start to see the overall shape of things. The archetypical elven waystone sits on a leyline and adds to its flow. The archetypical Belthani menhir and Scythian standing stone sits on a leyline and points to an elven waystone, increasing coverage. And these flows of magic get directed together by nexuses into bigger and bigger flows of magic until they reach their ultimate destinations.
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So, have you guys heard of Liminal Spaces? I ask because of that space the Grey College exists in, which in theory could be replicated with enough effort. I mean, imagine a locale completely safe from the Green Moon because it bears more resemblance to a DnD Elemental Plane than a planet, and thus, while Beastmen aren't guaranteed to never be a thing(since Chaos and Dhar can just do that), they'll be crippled beyond relevance even if they actually manage to form a faction, along with a lack of Orks or any native Chaos presence. If we borrow a bit from Age of Sigmar's cosmology, perhaps a Level or three of The Backrooms could act as a transitional space between the Ulgu Realm and other Realms, which Ulgu's nature grants it significant control over.
One of the most famous is the ARG The Backrooms, based on a 4chan article from May 2019. Three different wikis, a TV Tropes page, with a reddit link on the last. Making spaces like those could be a next project if the Waystones work before Quest End. Even with the Waystone network pushing Chaos back, there will always be issues with Chaos, Beastmen or otherwise, targeting the network to try and Daemonworld Mallus. Basically, I'm saying that the project changes the situation from a long slow decline, but doesn't actually resolve the problem of Chaos wanting to drag the world into the Warp.
Actually having somewhere to escape to should something like the End Times happen would be an ultimate victory, and unlike the Skaven, we aren't going to manage a space program any time soon. Heck, without the broken Warp Gates at the poles like on Mallus, Chaos would be crippled even if they actually managed to get a significant foothold there.
I might have an Omake idea here...
One of the most famous is the ARG The Backrooms, based on a 4chan article from May 2019. Three different wikis, a TV Tropes page, with a reddit link on the last. Making spaces like those could be a next project if the Waystones work before Quest End. Even with the Waystone network pushing Chaos back, there will always be issues with Chaos, Beastmen or otherwise, targeting the network to try and Daemonworld Mallus. Basically, I'm saying that the project changes the situation from a long slow decline, but doesn't actually resolve the problem of Chaos wanting to drag the world into the Warp.
Actually having somewhere to escape to should something like the End Times happen would be an ultimate victory, and unlike the Skaven, we aren't going to manage a space program any time soon. Heck, without the broken Warp Gates at the poles like on Mallus, Chaos would be crippled even if they actually managed to get a significant foothold there.
I might have an Omake idea here...
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
That excuse works for a Dwarf with relatively little contact to Humans. Or one who grew up that way. It might even work for an Imperial Dwarf who mostly lives his life in a Dwarven district. But Arkat Fooger is born to an influential House of Marienburg and his job is to compete with and create policy besides 14 other Humans. Even if he thinks this way, he should have learned by now that talking this way to the wrong (speak average) Human just makes his life harder for no good reason. And he's never met Mathilde, this Grey Lady Magister who has lived among the Dwarves. He doesn't know if she's the type who is tired of hearing this shit, or who has proven herself to the locals while also showing disapproval of "candid" racism, or anything. So either Arkat does know just a bit more about Mathilde than is obvious, or he let his guard down while in Dwarfland, or he's just that openly racist and so successful that he doesn't need to care, or (and I think that's the most likely one) he's trying to paint a certain picture and come across in a certain way that distances himself and his House from any culpable elements in Marienburg and even from the Imperial-hated city as a whole while seeming honest and candid to the point of bluntness.
So yes, well informed, calculated, charismatic and willing to play into stereotypes when it suits him is how I'll assess him for now. One doesn't thrive as the only non-Human in a 15 man oligarchy by being habitually arrogant towards everyone else.
A ritual is a weird succession of magically significant steps that, if followed correctly, result in a specific and otherwise irreplicable effect. A failure in the steps should result in a different effect or no effect. But a different failure in the steps should again result in a different effect. Like, if you have to shove the five hearts down the calve's throat while chanting "Mahansu Mahansu Mahansu" then sticking the hearts into the wrong orifice while chanting correctly should result in a different ritual effect than sticking them down the correct orifice while incorrectly chanting "Nanasu Nanasu Nanasu". And given that all of this is Aethyr-derived and thus to some extend subject to Chaos, it wouldn't be surprising if you only get a consistently replicable effect if you follow the ritual to a tee, while every possible failure results in wider variance instead of essentially just being a discovery of a different but similar ritual. And this ignores any possible magic channeling that the ritual process might need. Putting too much or too little energy in a specific step of the program can result in all kinds of fritzes and fizzles.
This still seems strange to me. Maybe I misunderstand what it means, in character and ignoring the existence of dice and dice rolls, to fail a ritual?
Like, let's take the Rain of Blood ritual for example. If I have all the listed ingredients but don't do with them what I was supposed to, does that count as the kind of failure that is simulated by a failed dice roll in the RPG? But if that's the case and all rituals also always have the same failure state does that mean that if I take all the ingredients, throw them down a hole and fart my magic onto it from above I get the same holy water as if I had taken all the ingredients, strung them on a wire and channeled my magic through that while chanting praise to Manhavok?
Or are the dice rolls only simulating the fickle moods of the Aethyr and the amount of dice my effort to enforce my will upon it as I perfectly enact the ritual, with any actually incorrect step just resulting in me acting silly and wasting precious ingredients in an otherwise completely mundane and magicless event, because if you don't turn the third heart counter-clockwise as the calf breathes its last breath you aren't actually doing the ritual, just messing about with hearts and beef?
Codex
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@Rafin maybe I'm just tried but you're making zero sense to me. In order to even attempt to cast the ritual, you have to have the required ingredients and perform the necessary steps. If you fail to perform the ritual, you suffer the consequences that the person who made the ritual decides you have to suffer, because that's part of the creation process. You may also suffer additional consequences if you miscast. I don't see what's complicated about this.
K von Carstein
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From what I understand, Rafin means that the exact consequences of a wrongly done ritual should vary according to the exact part of the ritual you botched, and not always be the same no matter the mistake.
@Rafin as far as I can tell a ritual is a bit like a light switch. If you do everything right, congratulation you get a prize, if you mess up in any of dozens of way (wrong time, wrong place, poor ingredients etc...) then you get the thing that is the failure condition and can miscast. Though it is not modeled I imagine that if you mess up badly enough to the point where you cannot really be said to properly be attempting the ritual ('throw things down hole') then nothing happens and you may have wasted the ingredients.