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Thinking of next steps if we do suggest the wizard option, to make Heidi more comfortable with it, I think we should introduce her to Thorek.

He's very likely at the wedding, as he's a canny political operator and Kazrick is one of his apprentices.

As a canny political operator he should recognise the value of helping out the Empress and the heir to Reikland.

He's the second best Runelord alive, and if anyone else can manage what Kragg did and make another anti-Dhar talisman, it's him. With his experience with designing the Rooms of Calamity for the Colleges, he may even be able to make it more focused on helping a wizard survive their own magic, rather than including the spell-burning feature Kragg did, for example by including a miscast eating feature as well as a dhar burning one. Given the way his apprentices could selectively exclude all but one Wind from a material, he may even be able to do something like make a device that also produces a portable mono-Wind environment by pushing all but one Wind away, or consuming all but one Wind.

If he can do something like this, Mandred could live a much more normal life. His apprentices couod also make a mono-Wind wing of the palace for Mandred as they made Mathilde's mono-Wind tower, which may be much less suspicious to other nobles if we wanted to delay the reveal.

Given the Cult of Sigmar's relationship wi the dwarves and the saved examples of dwarven runecraft, a wizard-elector 'made safe' by such runecraft may be spun to be much more politically acceptable to the Cult, although that's perhaps a long shot.

As to why he would, as I say, he's a canny operator, and would see the value of Imperial favour,
 
So, we ask Thorek to help Mathilde help the Emperor's son with his magic?

Sounds complicated, if the Dwarves were just to duplicate the mono-Wind rooms the Colleges can already manage.

But maybe the Dwarves would do more than that, since it's Mathilde asking.

And maybe indeed Sigmar's folk would trust Mandred more, if Mandred's safety equipment was Dwarven make.
 
How much wealth does Karak Vlag have? If they've literally got more than they can spend, maybe we can spend our transcendent boon on getting that excess portion of the wealth? It would let us afford so many things. Not just books, but any future expenses like that Laurelorn laboratory or the artefacts we bought on the way to Dum.
 
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How much wealth does Karak Vlag have? If they've literally got more than they can spend, maybe we can spend our transcendent boon on getting that wealth? It would let us afford so many things. Not just books, but any future expenses like that Laurelorn laboratory or the artefacts we bought on the way to Dum.
What makes this horrible rather then just bad is that they would do it. They would give Mathy every coin and copper in the vault and desolate themselves if that was what she asked.
 
Thinking of next steps if we do suggest the wizard option, to make Heidi more comfortable with it, I think we should introduce her to Thorek.

He's very likely at the wedding, as he's a canny political operator and Kazrick is one of his apprentices.

As a canny political operator he should recognise the value of helping out the Empress and the heir to Reikland.

He's the second best Runelord alive, and if anyone else can manage what Kragg did and make another anti-Dhar talisman, it's him. With his experience with designing the Rooms of Calamity for the Colleges, he may even be able to make it more focused on helping a wizard survive their own magic, rather than including the spell-burning feature Kragg did, for example by including a miscast eating feature as well as a dhar burning one. Given the way his apprentices could selectively exclude all but one Wind from a material, he may even be able to do something like make a device that also produces a portable mono-Wind environment by pushing all but one Wind away, or consuming all but one Wind.

If he can do something like this, Mandred could live a much more normal life. His apprentices couod also make a mono-Wind wing of the palace for Mandred as they made Mathilde's mono-Wind tower, which may be much less suspicious to other nobles if we wanted to delay the reveal.

Given the Cult of Sigmar's relationship wi the dwarves and the saved examples of dwarven runecraft, a wizard-elector 'made safe' by such runecraft may be spun to be much more politically acceptable to the Cult, although that's perhaps a long shot.

As to why he would, as I say, he's a canny operator, and would see the value of Imperial favour,
The main hurdle here is that dwarves tend to be quite reluctant to hand out runecraft to humans who haven't proven themselves to them, and a seven year old isn't exactly going to have done that (or be likely to for the foreseeable future). Not saying it's impossible to get this sort of thing done- if nothing else, Mathilde's word vouching for it would count for quite a bit- but it's probably going to be more complicated than just asking for a favour.
 
I think we should spend some more time with Vlag—either through normal actions or social turns—before we try to cash in their boon. Partnering with their archives for the library is a good start on that.
 
So, we ask Thorek to help Mathilde help the Emperor's son with his magic?

Sounds complicated, if the Dwarves were just to duplicate the mono-Wind rooms the Colleges can already manage.

But maybe the Dwarves would do more than that, since it's Mathilde asking.

And maybe indeed Sigmar's folk would trust Mandred more, if Mandred's safety equipment was Dwarven make.

The Colleges can make a mono-Wind room, but at this point it's probably pretty obvious what they're doing.

By contrast, having dwarves make one is probably significantly easier to hide what the purpose is.

The dwarves can also make a Room of Calamity, which the Colleges can't, and Kragg, at least, can make Dhar burning runes which the Colleges most certainly can't manage. If Mandred doesn't end up picking Ranald as his personal patron, there's also luck/fate manipulating runes.

I also think that after Thorek spends a couple of years working on the Waystone project, particularly if we manage to invent a seviroscope, that he may be able to see how to use and combine the runes he knows in ways that allow him to influence the Winds in a more controlled fashion.

Longer term, there's also the possibility of magic-runic collaborations with Mathilde (particularly if she learns Arcane Khazalid so she can talk to him in a shared arcane tongue), although that may come to late for Mandred.
 
I think we should spend some more time with Vlag—either through normal actions or social turns—before we try to cash in their boon. Partnering with their archives for the library is a good start on that.
The survivors of Karak Vlag spent a very long time in the Warp, even if they were in a stable bubble. They might have some interesting insights. Could make a good book...
 
How much wealth does Karak Vlag have? If they've literally got more than they can spend, maybe we can spend our transcendent boon on getting that excess portion of the wealth? It would let us afford so many things. Not just books, but any future expenses like that Laurelorn laboratory or the artefacts we bought on the way to Dum.

Karak Vlag was the poorest of the Old Holds even before they spent two centuries besieged in hell. If Mathilde shook them down for money it would result in substantial wealth by the standards of an individual, but that is money that they would probably have spent on things like food and defences.
 
The main hurdle here is that dwarves tend to be quite reluctant to hand out runecraft to humans who haven't proven themselves to them, and a seven year old isn't exactly going to have done that (or be likely to for the foreseeable future). Not saying it's impossible to get this sort of thing done- if nothing else, Mathilde's word vouching for it would count for quite a bit- but it's probably going to be more complicated than just asking for a favour.

Thorek had his apprentices make eight Rooms of Calamity for the Colleges to be used by hundreds of imperial wizards he'd never met, seven under the control of Magister Patriarchs he'd never met, all under the authority of an Emperor he'd never met, the same Emperor whose child he'd be making runecraft for. This probably includes at least some particularly early blooming seven year olds making their first ever attempt to cast a real spell.

Thorek is a politician. He must know the value of helping ensure the safety of someone's child, given the lengths dwarves go to to protect their own children. When that someone is the Emperor of Sigmar's Empire, someone who has at least one Elector that is, on the whole, significantly helping the Karaz Ankor such as with the canals, and whose Imperial institutions, in the form of Mathilde and the other Collegiate wizards she knows, hav free been instrumental in a whole catalogue of great things for multiple Karaks.

Luitipold may not have commanded this, but he permitted it, accepting the opportunity cost of, from the dwarven perspective, incredibly valuable Imperial assets that he has authority over being used to help the dwarves rather than the Empire directly.

The reign of Luitipold Holswig-Schliestein has so far been wonderful for the dwarves, and as the guy at the top, just as he'd take responsibility for the Empire's failures to help the dwarves, he's also due credit for the Empire's success.

We also see that Thorek is willing to bend traditions for political expedience, such as taking on Kazrick as an apprentice.
 
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I've been watching too many Mass Effect playthroughs. I had a dream where I was running a quest involving the main character leading an expedition to save a Dwarven colony who lost contact with the mainland. Similarities with Divided Loyalties are probably not a coincidence.

Anyways, I am generally opposed to using Karak Vlag's Great Deed. They are vulnerable and weak at the moment, and I don't want to put any unwarranted pressure on them after 200 years in the Warp. Even if we go our entire lifetime never cashing in our Great Deed, I'd be fine with it. Their wellbeing is more important than Mathilde's benefit.
 
Mathilde is not short of personal wealth. She is even less short of the ability to get shit done via wealth (which is the only reason she should have wealth due the vow). If she can't afford something herself she can quite easily get the EIC as a whole, Roswita, Kazador, Belegar, Luitpold or Thorgrim to chip in. Apart from the first two, any of them would count the entire cash reserves of Vlag as minor costs.
 
Mathilde is not short of personal wealth. She is even less short of the ability to get shit done via wealth (which is the only reason she should have wealth due the vow). If she can't afford something herself she can quite easily get the EIC as a whole, Roswita, Kazador, Belegar, Luitpold or Thorgrim to chip in. Apart from the first two, any of them would count the entire cash reserves of Vlag as minor costs.
If Mathilde wasn't short of personal wealth, we'd be much less conservative with our purchases. Doing stuff for money costs AP and we can't get any of the listed people or organisations to give us money.
 
Clio. It makes sense that an ambitious cult dedicated to recording the past might look at the cult dedicated to recording in general and think it would be a winnable fight that would increase their power, influence, and income.

My take away from this is what assholes the cults are to each other. Guess there are pleanty of real world examples to take inspiration from..

Wonder how Mathilde would react to a cult going for Ranald. Hmm Protector-Signar syncretism rage button. :p
 
My take away from this is what assholes the cults are to each other. Guess there are pleanty of real world examples to take inspiration from..

Wonder how Mathilde would react to a cult going for Ranald. Hmm Protector-Signar syncretism rage button. :p
Protector is primarily protecting the populace from tyranny and oppression, ensuring freedom from such things. No Sigmarite cult would claim the Protector. It's one of the primary reasons Ranald is shut down so much.
 
Anyways, I am generally opposed to using Karak Vlag's Great Deed. They are vulnerable and weak at the moment, and I don't want to put any unwarranted pressure on them after 200 years in the Warp. Even if we go our entire lifetime never cashing in our Great Deed, I'd be fine with it. Their wellbeing is more important than Mathilde's benefit.
The downside I worry about to not cashing in our Trancendent Boon is if it nags on the collective Dwarven psyche, in a similar manner to major unaveneged grudges. It's a huge debt.

What I'd in broad terms be in favour of is some sort of pro-social invocation of the Boon, if there's an opportunity to get Vlag to do something that would be good for them, and maybe Kislev or others, that they'd otherwise not be inclined to do, because they're paranoid Dwarves who're almost completely convinced they've just returned from Hell.

But as others have said, spotting those opportunities may be best served by getting to know them and their circumstances better.
 
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The downside I worry about to not cashing in our Trancendent Boon may be that it nags on the collective Dwarven psyche in a similar manner to major unaveneged grudges do.

What I'd in broad terms be in favour of is some sort of pro-social invocation of the Boon, if there's an opportunity to get Vlag to do something that would be good for them, and maybe or Kislev or others, that they'd otherwise not be inclined to do, because paranoid Dwarves who're almost completely convinced they've just come back from Hell.
I think that's more of a cultural thing than just a biological thing. We've already seen Vlag defy many of the Dwarf's cultural mores, I doubt they've inherited the Grudge/Debt stuff to nearly the same degree as their ancestors. They've never had the luxury of doing so when their primary concern was survival. I'm sure it would nag at them, but to nowhere near the same degree as it did Belegar.
 
We should use our transcendent boon to get them to declare us an honorary (purely honorary) princess so that we can achieve our destiny of becoming Princess Mathilde.
We could have had that for around the price of a (later) one or two topic impulse book splurge. Genuine, if tinpot, Princess-in-exile-through-not-controlling-the-fiefdom.

I think that's more of a cultural thing than just a biological thing. We've already seen Vlag defy many of the Dwarf's cultural mores, I doubt they've inherited the Grudge/Debt stuff to nearly the same degree as their ancestors. They've never had the luxury of doing so when their primary concern was survival. I'm sure it would nag at them, but to nowhere near the same degree as it did Belegar.
Hopefully? But those Thungni descended apprentices still got themselves killed out of shame at teaching the non-decendant Runekit.

Count me in favour of pro-social boon spending, for the right opportunity. Better than leaving it unspent to no good purpose.
 
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I think Mathilde's relationship with the aspects or Ranald is a bit more nuanced than that. Protector and Deceiver are both "things I'm going to be doing anyway" but Protector is a goal and a cause while Deceiver is a tool. The goal was probably attractive to Mathilde because of her formative experience of almost being burned at the stake and also because of her Grey Wizard education, while the tool is attractive to her solely because of her being a Grey Wizard. Night Prowler has also been used by Mathilde as a tool - she doesn't steal stuff as a matter of principle because 'property is totally fake yo' as some Ranaldites do - but it's a tool that I don't think she would have used as heavily if not for her worship of Ranald, and I don't know that most Grey Wizards have as much of a connection with the Night Prowler as Mathilde (though the general sneakiness that is associated with that aspect is surely not uncommon).

That just leaves the Gambler. It has already been pointed out before that of all the aspects of Ranald it's the only one that doesn't really fall under the category of "thing's I'm going to be doing anyway", which I think is why she said

Since gambling is something she wouldn't be doing if not for her worship of Ranald it has a ritualistic significance that the other aspects don't, and if memory serves in the course of this quest whenever Mathilde wanted to "pray" to Ranald in a ritualistic fashion it was invariably through the use of gambling.

And of course, whenever the thread wants to pray to Ranald it is always done through the use of gambling rather than by, say, overthrowing corrupt governments.
Its her Brave trait.
The part of Mathilde which weighs the odds and decides to commit or cash out.

So I'd frame it as:
-Protector - This drives Mathilde's devotion to Ranald and colors her perspective on his relationships. . Nothing like having been dragged to the stake once, if not for the actions of a good man, and then a good teacher, to be burned unjustly.

-Gambler - This drives Ranald's interest in Mathilde, she's the one with all the insane cool gambles for a good cause. She says "when necessary", but because of her bravery, she is willing to cut the odds closer than most.

-Deceiver and Prowler - This is pretty much her Ulgu-ing. A good tool, and for a wizard, an often defining one.
 
No, I mean they would actually kill him, regretfully, but you do not play those sorts of games with the emperor because it can lead to the whole college suffering. I think you are seriously overstating the level to which the Order is willing to stick out its neck for a single magister, especially one who got in so deep as him. I do not think he god the ultra secret super room to explain what he did because he did not want to be Grey.

And yet he was willing to go outside the Order to make it happen, since a favor with an Amethyst was involved. And he was willing to disclose the action to his surrogate daughter, despite the inherent risks to both himself and her from doing so.

Actually killing him wouldn't benefit the Order, because next time this happens the person stumbling across the absolutely critical secret would have to be willing to make the critically necessary decision knowing that the only fate awaiting them if it ever comes out is death.


You're also assuming that he leapt to Empress murder without making use of Algard's open door policy, which is something that very much could have gone either way.

Is "the Tileans" even a thing? Isn't Tilea a collection of city states.
That just means we get to do the I got Paaaid Twice Dance. A Lot.



I can actually imagine ten year old Mathilde sat at a table in the Grey Library drawing up a table listing the pros and cons for each god.

GodProCon
UlricLikes WolvesHates Wizards
ShallyaKindNo stabbing
ManannTalk like a pirateSwimming
KhaineLikes stabbingToo much stabbing
RanaldLikes cats, lies and stabbing???
Ranald Cons: Yes please.
 
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