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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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somewhatLazy said:
By the way, what's the thread theories on what was going on with Karag Dum? Cor-Dum patted Borek affectionately which is entirely out of character for him, so I think it can't be something as simple as a daemon-binding or an illusion affecting Cor-Dum's perceptions.
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I believe the current prevailing theory is :???:

There are two directions to look in our search for leads. One is the question of Gods: there is some sort of divine force turning the area around Dum to desert. Some possible suggestions were mentioned here, but it's all very speculative. I think the only safe bet here is that whatever God is involved, it isn't one the Ancestor Gods, but other than that I don't think we have a lot to go on.
The second thing to consider is Cor-Dum. Egrimm makes a good case that if you want to figure out what the dwarves of Karag Dum did to the Shadowgave you first need to figure out what the Shadowgave even is.

On both of those questions we really have no leads. I guess since the Shadowgave has a thing with Athel Loren maybe someone is Bretonnia could have a piece of the puzzle, and if we had to go looking for answers I think that's where I would start, but who would know and why would they share it with us? I think that other than hoping for the answers to somehow fall into our laps all we can really do is keep our eyes peeled for any potential clues.
 
mathymancer said:
I believe the current prevailing theory is :???:

There are two directions to look in our search for leads. One is the question of Gods: there is some sort of divine force turning the area around Dum to desert. Some possible suggestions were mentioned here, but it's all very speculative. I think the only safe bet here is that whatever God is involved, it isn't one the Ancestor Gods, but other than that I don't think we have a lot to go on.
The second thing to consider is Cor-Dum. Egrimm makes a good case that if you want to figure out what the dwarves of Karag Dum did to the Shadowgave you first need to figure out what the Shadowgave even is.

On both of those questions we really have no leads. I guess since the Shadowgave has a thing with Athel Loren maybe someone is Bretonnia could have a piece of the puzzle, and if we had to go looking for answers I think that's where I would start, but who would know and why would they share it with us? I think that other than hoping for the answers to somehow fall into our laps all we can really do is keep our eyes peeled for any potential clues.
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The closest thing we have to a lead is that Boney bookmarked the posts in the thread that were closest to the truth.

And it's hunting me and I really wish to be validated (or be proven wrong idk)
 
Boney said:
You swear viciously under your breath and suck on the wounded tip of your finger, throwing the knife in your other hand at the wall in frustration. You were a wizard, for crying out loud. Wizards don't whittle. They bend arcane energy to their will and force reality to obey their slightest whims!
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Boney said:
You toy with the thought of finding a new god. Verena, you're sure, does not tell her followers to climb into sewers. But even as you wonder if Verena likes cats too, you know you're going to end up climbing down that manhole.
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Boney said:
"Because it's an omen, you goddamn idiots," you yell as you stomp into the room, sending the two men scrambling away from you in shock. They draw daggers; you glare at them until they sheath them again, sheepishly.
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Mathilde had quite the shorter fuse back in the day. I wonder if she's surpassed the need for whittling yet? And did she ever find out if Verena likes cats?
 
Andres said:
Mathilde had quite the shorter fuse back in the day. I wonder if she's surpassed the need for whittling yet? And did she ever find out if Verena likes cats?
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I think Boney has spoken on that a few times, although I can't find the quotes right now, so maybe he hasn't and I just imagined it. Basically, I believe it's a combination of Mathilde's youthful anxiety/lack of confidence, and the ever present influence of latent Dhar across Stirland and Sylvania, which made her a very harsh person.

However, spending a few turns at the collage becoming a magister and then joining a community that isn't prejudiced against her, one where she can use her expertise and be celebrated for it, allowed her more mischievous side to come through. I suspect her friendships with Johann and Pan, her bond with Wolf, and her adoption of the Ducklings helped balance her out as well.
 
Brave does mean that when you feel looked down upon or hated, you'd challenge them so they back down. Mathilde got mellow and more playful as she got more secure.
 
VoiceOfTheRiders said:
I don't quite follow. Sure you would need to brave to challenge, but in such a situation one would be able to be brave without challenging.
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Brave does not merely mean "Mathilde is theoretically capable of confronting problems head-on," it also means "Mathilde has a notable tendency to confront problems head-on."
 
Mathilde the sort of person that shouts YEET as she tries to body a daemon.

EDIT: But quietly because stelth.
 
WhiteNights said:
The closest thing we have to a lead is that Boney bookmarked the posts in the thread that were closest to the truth.

And it's hunting me and I really wish to be validated (or be proven wrong idk)
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Well at its simplest the Shadowgave would appear to be a Ghur aspected Dhar structure paralleling the Vampire's initial probable Shyish origins, with the Dhar corruptive aspect given an outward focus compared to the internalization that we see from multiple vampire bloodlines and mutations. Its respawn may be tied more to the worldroots/waystones/herdstones than the physical remnant anchor vampires use, possibly indicating that it's soul structure is more of a cloud based backup recovery system than the Vampire's indestructible hard drive baked into the DNA approach(if that is indeed how that's done).


Speculating further, from Dum's knowledge of Waystones and study of Herdstones and general Chaos efforts to corrupt them in other ways they may have reverse engineered an equivalent to the Secrets of Dhar we learned from the Liber Mortis, enabling a stable control structure to shackle the Shadowgave, or at least keep him pointed in the right direction. Tying into my personal pet theory from the time of our initial mad ramblings the techniques involved in Alaric's funky knowledge and personality retaining Crowns may have been involved, possibly using a member of the Royal Clan as the anchor/template/control node/counterbalancing soul structure/other to muddle Beasty Boy's IFF.



Or I may be so completely off base that they're about to send the MPs to retrieve me for my desertion trial. I dunno.
 
Wiadi said:
Brave does not merely mean "Mathilde is theoretically capable of confronting problems head-on," it also means "Mathilde has a notable tendency to confront problems head-on."
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This, pretty much.
When you're insecure(as early Mathilde was, due to myriad reasons), a lot of things that aren't actually problems look problem-shaped. Which means the Brave person would confront people who only look like they're talking shit about you even if they aren't.
 
K von Carstein said:
That seems more likely than outright conquest. Lustria is over the ocean, inhospitable to humans and filled with angry Lizardmen. Settra also predates the Skavens, so the scaly boys wouldn't be weakened by them. And I don't care how badass Settra is, if Mazdamundi sneezes he dies.
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Nehekarans were built different. Remember there's a cataclysm spell in Storm of Magic with the fluff that it restores nehekarans to the strength they had when they were alive and it's iirc considered one of the strongest cataclysm spells. Settra when he was alive was S9, i.e. physically stronger than basically anything in the setting barring an emperor dragon. Tombguards made chosen look like little bitches when they were alive. The current nehekaran army may be dozens of times larger, and they might be literally immortal in the "actually cannot die" sense, but they're still arguably weaker than Nehekara was in Settra's time.
 
DOOMPOTATO said:
Nehekarans were built different. Remember there's a cataclysm spell in Storm of Magic with the fluff that it restores nehekarans to the strength they had when they were alive and it's iirc considered one of the strongest cataclysm spells. Settra when he was alive was S9, i.e. physically stronger than basically anything in the setting barring an emperor dragon. Tombguards made chosen look like little bitches when they were alive. The current nehekaran army may be dozens of times larger, and they might be literally immortal in the "actually cannot die" sense, but they're still arguably weaker than Nehekara was in Settra's time.
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They were solar powered badasses.
Them Nagash used kryptonite on them
 
DOOMPOTATO said:
Nehekarans were built different. Remember there's a cataclysm spell in Storm of Magic with the fluff that it restores nehekarans to the strength they had when they were alive and it's iirc considered one of the strongest cataclysm spells. Settra when he was alive was S9, i.e. physically stronger than basically anything in the setting barring an emperor dragon. Tombguards made chosen look like little bitches when they were alive. The current nehekaran army may be dozens of times larger, and they might be literally immortal in the "actually cannot die" sense, but they're still arguably weaker than Nehekara was in Settra's time.
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I didn't know that, thanks. But it changes nothing to the fact that maintaining supply lignes across an entire ocean is extremely difficult, especially with lower tech (and magic can't change the fact that ancient ships had less carrying capacities). Especially when the more powerful mages in the world live there and can create hurricanes.

Even if stronger than regular humans, I doubt Nehekharan were immune to tropical diseases and serpents' bites. That's not even counting the fact that the Lizardmen weren't weakened by the Skavens, and so much more numerous.

And there's still the Slaans, including Mazdamundi and 4 other 2de-Generation Slaans.
 
As an example of the kind of stuff Mazdamundi does to repel invasions, there's a mountain range between Lustria and Naggaroth called the "Grey Guardians". That range didn't used to exist. Mazdamundi made it to repel overland Druchii invasions.
 
K von Carstein said:
I didn't know that, thanks. But it changes nothing to the fact that maintaining supply lignes across an entire ocean is extremely difficult, especially with lower tech (and magic can't change the fact that ancient ships had less carrying capacities). Especially when the more powerful mages in the world live there and can create hurricanes.

Even if stronger than regular humans, I doubt Nehekharan were immune to tropical diseases and serpents' bites. That's not even counting the fact that the Lizardmen weren't weakened by the Skavens, and so much more numerous.
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The people of Ka-Sabar were known for their great size of nearly seven feet tall, and its warriors had skin hard enough that arrows shattered against them. These warriors were assembled into the formidable Legion of Bronze, led by the lion-bodied Ushabti of Geheb.
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From the wiki: Those snakes better damn be badasses.

Also, Lore of light might be able to do something about ship carrying capacity.
 
IronFist said:
From the wiki: Those snakes better damn be badasses.

Also, Lore of light might be able to do something about ship carrying capacity.
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That's hardly the entire army who were as strong as that.

Also, enchanting your entire fleet into ships of holding? I doubt even the Asurs can do that. I can see a few ships being augmented like that, but certainly not enough to change things. And is there any material mentioning Nehekharians using space magic?
 
K von Carstein said:
That's hardly the entire army who were as strong as that
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It's an example of how different the blessings of the gods were at the time.
Nehekharan Gods were interventionist, which is probably how Nagash managed to kill them, and why the other gods won't distribute blessings on the same way.

Edit: in short, i don't think its a unique thing even though my evidence for it is lacking. My theory goes that if it was unique, ka-sabar would be the pre eminent city of Nehekhara, not Khemri. It was an arms race of divine blessings, and Ka-sabar didn't win.
 
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Codex said:
As an example of the kind of stuff Mazdamundi does to repel invasions, there's a mountain range between Lustria and Naggaroth called the "Grey Guardians". That range didn't used to exist. Mazdamundi made it to repel overland Druchii invasions.
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Thee thing about that is that from one perspective it reveals the raw power of Masdamundi but from the other side of the coin it sort of shows that overland druuchi invasions were such a big problem he had put up a mountain to block the way rather than just killing them. It means sufficiently strong mortal armies are a problem, explaining the apparently successful nehekaran raids.
 
DOOMPOTATO said:
Thee thing about that is that from one perspective it reveals the raw power of Masdamundi but from the other side of the coin it sort of shows that overland druuchi invasions were such a big problem he had put up a mountain to block the way rather than just killing them. It means sufficiently strong mortal armies are a problem, explaining the apparently successful nehekaran raids.
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It's less effort to raise a mountain range compared to annhilating six major cities. I don't know how you could realistically expect Mazdamundi to just wipe out all of Naggaroth. It's far less effort to make the logistics of the situation tilted in his favor than taking the nuclear option.
 
IronFist said:
Edit: in short, i don't think its a unique thing even though my evidence for it is lacking. My theory goes that if it was unique, ka-sabar would be the pre eminent city of Nehekhara, not Khemri. It was an arms race of divine blessings, and Ka-sabar didn't win.
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True. But I don't think it's even close to sufficient at making an invasion of Lustria by Settra possible.
 
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