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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Fayhem said:
I think you've conflated Gnosticism with Manichaeism. While Manichaeism has Gnostic elements, it also incorporated elements from other religions such as Zoroastrianism - notably, the Zoroastrian supreme evil being, Ahriman. Other strains of Gnosticism do not necessarily have a corresponding evil figure; while the demiurge may be presented as evil, in other conceptions they may simply be flawed, and the evils in their creation are a product of their flaws rather than of malevolence.
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Boney said:
I'm not at my computer, but the other details of it given in the 2e religion book line up very closely with Gnosticism.
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"Believe in only two gods: Sigmar, the benevolent deity, who created the human soul; and a dark god, an evil deity, who created the world as a form of prison for those souls." To me that screams the more ascetic forms of Gnosticism, but I can see how it could fit Manicheanism too.
 
Boney said:
"Believe in only two gods: Sigmar, the benevolent deity, who created the human soul; and a dark god, an evil deity, who created the world as a form of prison for those souls." To me that screams the more ascetic forms of Gnosticism, but I can see how it could fit Manicheanism too.
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It sounds quite similar to historical Catharism, save that the benevolent deity in this scenario created the souls, rather than humans being angels imprisoned upon the earth.

And in-universe, there's an odd parallel to how the Norscans believe that the world is a neverending dreamscape, and the only worthwhile goal is to try and permanently wake up by being a great warrior within the dream.
 
Rafin said:
A minimum baseline of professionalism?

It doesn't even have to be perfectly sorted or free of contradictions. But not having any at all when your franchise sells a lot of IP licenses because of its lore is kind of painful.
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GW aren't a professional company in this respect. It's worth remembering that GW, in their own eyes, are a model company first, and everything else a distant second. They don't farm out their IP to expand the lore, they farm it out because it requires minimal effort and makes a ton of money. Keeping some form of actual canon would minimally expand the amount of effort they have to put forward, so they don't.
 
Asking GW to make a professional, finalized lore document or universe bible feels like a hard sell to me when this internet project made for fun has to have a clearly demarcated canon tier list and still gets questions of how this or that fits in once or twice a week.
 
I don't know why, but when I came across this post, I instantly got Panoramia/Mathilde vibes:
In another universe, this would probably be the way in which they would get to know each other.
 
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Journey To The Dragon East 1; Dream of the Grey Chamber
  • Apocrypha
    • On a intricate carved shelf rests a well worn bamboo scroll. A tag attached by twine bears the title, Journey To The Dragon East 1; Dream of the Grey Chamber, and a blurb;

    LADY MAGDA WESSEN, WIZARD-KNIGHT & RENOWNED DIPLOMAT has to been dispatched to FAR OFF, MYSTERIOUS CATHAY, by order of THE EMPEROR HIMSELF. Officially the IMPERIAL AMBASSADOR, she has SECRET ORDERS to investigate the ATTEMPTED MURDER of ZHAO MING, DRAGON CHILD of the ANCIENT DRAGON EMPEROR, reportedly by IMPERIAL TRADERS!

    In her search for answers, MAGDA becomes ENSNARED by the DANCE OF THE DRAGON COURT, and the PETTY FEUDS between the DRAGON SIBLINGS. The mighty scholar ZHAO MING, focus of her SECRET STUDY, seeks to learn IMPERIAL CULTURE from her; but does he really HUNGER for MAGDA'S expansive MAGICAL KNOWLEDGE? The tempestuous beauty MIAO YING scorns MAGDA for the DISHARMONY she has seemingly brought, but also believes she maybe a VALUABLE ASSET as DARKNESS STIRS from beyond THE GREAT DRAGON WALL! And THE DRAON EMPEROR AND EMPRESS both REFUSE to look upon MAGDA, yet display a GREAT CURIOSITY about her life and MANY GREAT DEEDS! MAGDA will need all her CHARM, WIT and MIGHT to complete her mission, but will she return a CHANGED WOMAN?
    The scroll includes a number of paintings, done in a traditional Cathayan style. One is titled The Ambassador Comes Before The Dragon Throne, and depicts MAGDA WESSEN first meeting the Dragon Court.

    MAGDA is depicted as a young and slim woman, with an ample bosum under grey robes. Her face is half hidden under a wide brimmed hat, showing one grey eye that sparkles with mischief and secrets, and her red lips are curved in a soft smile. Her long hair is braided in two separate plaits across her front, while loose threads behind her head seem to float. She holds, planted into the ground, a long sword nearly her match in height, which blazes with strange runes. She also has a stocky pistol holstered at her hip, and a long wooden staff, tipped by a grey crystal leaking mist at its head. MAGDA'S shadow twists unnaturally, seeming to cackle with a wide smile.

    Zhao Ming is depicted as a large, barrel chested man with bronze skin, firmly shaped legs stood at shoulder width and broad arms crossed over his hairless chest. He wears only a silver loincloth, and his bulging muscles gleam with sweat. His pointed onyx beard frames a handsome but harsh face, and his pure white eyes gleam with hunger & greed. Behind his back are a pair of bronze and steel wings, that seem more like the work of a clock-maker.

    Miao Ying is depicted as a beautiful but harsh woman, with long pale white hair, her large bosom contained by a intricately designed steel armour. Her hands, held by her sides, end in sharp claws. Her stunning face is carefully blank, but her pure blue eyes show a burning anger. Behind her back are a pair of sharp iron wings, crackling with lightning.

    The Dragon Emperor and Empress are depicted as white and black Cathayan dragons, floating above their ornate Dragon Thrones, their serpentine bodies coiled together, wrapping around the painting to form it's boarder. Both are hiding their eyes behind clawed hands, but while the Emperor has a look of shame, the Empress has a look of joy.
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • There are technically three more living Dragons in Cathay, they're just unavailable right now and don't have a design revealed.

    Also, I find the idea of someone trying to assassinate Zhao Ming funny. What did they bring over? A dagger? It's like trying to scratch a tank with a toy knife.
     
    Codex said:
    There are technically three more living Dragons in Cathay, they're just unavailable right now and don't have a design revealed.

    Also, I find the idea of someone trying to assassinate Zhao Ming funny. What did they bring over? A dagger? It's like trying to scratch a tank with a toy knife.
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    Considering there have been Skaven over in Cathay, it wouldn't shock me if the assassin had acquired a Brass Orb...
     
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    Codex said:
    There are technically three more living Dragons in Cathay, they're just unavailable right now and don't have a design revealed.

    Also, I find the idea of someone trying to assassinate Zhao Ming funny. What did they bring over? A dagger? It's like trying to scratch a tank with a toy knife.
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    I can imagine a servant pulling out a knife and trying to stab her while she is doing paperwork. The most reaction they get out of her is a look of bafflement as she shuffles her paperwork to the side so assassins blood does not get all over it.
     
    I feel the need to add, while this book probably the kind to include "She breasted boobily" or similar, it DEFINITELY includes multiple paragraphs talking about Zhao Ming's tea drinking.

    "His soft, supple lips cupped the porcelain, parting slightly to allow the hot tea down his throat, his adam's apple throbbing rhythmically as it went down. He delicately lowered the cup, and MAGDA caught a glimpse of pearly white, sharp teeth, and a fleshy tongue, forked, twisting in his mouth."

    (Hey I'm good at this)

    Also yes, every MAGDA in the book is in all caps.

    Also what is the Adam's Apple even called in WHF? Sigmar's Apple?
     
    Codex said:
    There are technically three more living Dragons in Cathay, they're just unavailable right now and don't have a design revealed.

    Also, I find the idea of someone trying to assassinate Zhao Ming funny. What did they bring over? A dagger? It's like trying to scratch a tank with a toy knife.
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    Warhammer is the kind of setting where something like a dagger wrought of a shard of a daemon's armour, cooled in the blood of eight wizards and sanctified by the eightfold murder of innocents is a perfectly viable murder weapon. So probably something excessively magical.

    EDIT:
    Dragonofelder said:
    Also what is the Adam's Apple even called in WHF? Sigmar's Apple?
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    Probably not Sigmar. Maybe something with Ranald or Taal. Ulric is possible but unlikely IMO.
     
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    deathofrats0808 said:
    Warhammer is the kind of setting where something like a dagger wrought of a shard of a daemon's armour, cooled in the blood of eight wizards and sanctified by the eightfold murder of innocents is a perfectly viable murder weapon. So probably something excessively magical.

    EDIT:

    Probably not Sigmar. Maybe something with Ranald or Taal. Ulric is possible but unlikely IMO.
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    I wouldn't be surprised if they had a Jing Ke reference somewhere in the lore. With a massive clownshoes assassination attempt with the assassin getting dinged in the head with a medicine bag and wacked with a ceremonial sword. With said dragon child acting like their fumbling self defense was extremely elegant and perfectly executed and not at all saved by their physician who has a good throwing arm.
     
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    Codex said:
    Also, I find the idea of someone trying to assassinate Zhao Ming funny. What did they bring over? A dagger? It's like trying to scratch a tank with a toy knife.
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    It's kinda funny, because I'm pulling the assassination plot point from the non-canon verse I made as a response to your "Draconic Diplomacy" side-story/apocrypha.
    Dragonofelder said:
    @Codex, I loved your Zhao Ming side story! Probably because it's the first fiction I've seen that uses one of the new characters. It sort of inspired me to do a very non-canon snippet from a world that would possibly get very interesting, very soon...
    Rumor Mill​
    Royal Cathay Dragon Assassinated: Dark news from the far east as the Iron Dragon Zhao Ming, ruler of Shang-Yang, is murdered! By traders from the Empire, no less! Details are few and conflicting - some claim that chaos cultists are to blame, while others say it was a shocking accident. All are sure of one thing however; when the news reached the Celestial City, the Moon Empresses let out a cry of grief and rage that shook the earth, and turned day into night. The draconian eyes of Cathay turn westwards, and certainly not for trade!
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