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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Codex said:
After that frankly embarrassing ordeal was dealt with, the caravan was accepted into the city and led through the streets to the hostelries and accommodations that would take care of them. Zhao Ming, determined to leave the awkwardness behind him, asked for the leader of the Caravan to meet with him in his palace. He didn't dally much afterwards, simply turning into his dragon form to fly to his palace to sulk in his quarters.
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Yep, dispite trying to make him the more villainess of the two dragons, his youngest kid complex just makes him more amusing, and hence, likeable, of the dragons so far.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Yep, dispite trying to make him the more villainess of the two dragons, his youngest kid complex just makes him more amusing, and hence, likeable, of the dragons so far.
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Less villanous, more disturbed. One of his idle lines in the game is "Get out of my head", implying something is talking to him (likely the Great Maw), and another of his lines is "in search of Warpstone!". His Alchemists even lace the gunpowder of cannons with Warpstone in one of the technologies. He's living on the edge.
 
Some good news for those interested in Ind is that Cathay's Caravan has an Ind event where you come across a trading caravan from Ind with growling silk covered bodyguards (heavily implied to be Tigermen) and a trade deal from the the Ind caravan. Apparently there is some sort of cage and the Caravan Master comes back to say that Ind is called the Land of a Thousand Gods for a reason and that "we are blessed by Ind", giving you a huge bonus.

This combined with the Cathayan settlements known as City of Monkeys and Village of the Tigermen intrigues me on the future of Warhammer Fantasy.
 
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I love the outpost mechanic, which lets you build units from your allies from cities that have that allies outpost.

will definitely try to create an 'allies of order' Doomstack when I get the game as a mini-challenge for myself.
 
@Codex, I loved your Zhao Ming side story! Probably because it's the first fiction I've seen that uses one of the new characters. It sort of inspired me to do a very non-canon snippet from a world that would possibly get very interesting, very soon...
Rumor Mill​
Royal Cathay Dragon Assassinated: Dark news from the far east as the Iron Dragon Zhao Ming, ruler of Shang-Yang, is murdered! By traders from the Empire, no less! Details are few and conflicting - some claim that chaos cultists are to blame, while others say it was a shocking accident. All are sure of one thing however; when the news reached the Celestial City, the Moon Empresses let out a cry of grief and rage that shook the earth, and turned day into night. The draconian eyes of Cathay turn westwards, and certainly not for trade!
 
pucflek said:
I do wish we had any inkling on how to improve the windsight. We are simply one of the best, not the best, and the utter top is deparated from us with insane gulf. That will not do :V
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I am pretty sure this option is what we can use to try to improve our windsight;
[ ] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
 
Boney said:
Even a Journeyman of the Jade College can make any nascent farming attempt into bumper crop after bumper crop, so they've got more reason than her sunny personality to try to win her over.
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Shipping material found: Even early on Mathilde considered Pan's personality to be a good reason in and of itself to win her over.
 
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Pan was always nice to be around, even when she was in her fangirl phase she was both competent and enthusiastic and let's face it that is half the battle to get SV to vote on any sort of romance. We vote in these quests to change the world in some way large or small and it was clear she was in, though I myself was among the people who underestimated how much she had actually already managed to do so.
 
A Complete List of Incomplete Traits:

Diplomacy:
Bretonnia (1/2)
Kurgan (1/2)

Martial:
Greatsword, Master (2*/4)
Strategy - The Empire (1/3)
Strategy - Knights (1/3)
Strategy - Wizards (1/3)
Tactics: - Wizards (1/3)

Intrigue:
Infiltration, Master (1/4)
Interrogation, Advanced (1/3)
Psychological Warfare (2/3)
Scouting (2/3)

Stewardship:
Logistics (1/3)

Piety:
Gazul (1/3)
Kislev Pantheon (1/3)
Old World Pantheon (Northern) (1/3) (Taal, Rhya, Manann, Ulric)
Sigmar (2/3)
Ulric (1/3)

Learning:
Bibliothecography (2/3)
History (Old World) (2/3)

---

I was thinking about what self improvement actions might be worth taking in future turns, so I copy/pasted a quick list of all the unfinished skills we have. Doesn't include skills we haven't picked up yet, or skills that are capped but might be able to be increased to a higher tier (such as advanced or master).

Honestly, the only big things I think we need to finish of are swording and infiltration—getting to master rank in those is important, I feel. Wizard tactics/strategy might be useful—I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it—but it doesn't feel urgent.

Speaking of swording—do we know if our master techniques are compatible with shadow daggers? I might have asked this before, but if so I've completely forgotten. Because if they are compatible, codifying the shadowsword and writing a manual on how to use a blade that can flicker in and out of existence would be a valuable and thematic weapon for the Grey Order. I'm actually having a bit of difficulty finding out the specifics of what the Shadow Dagger mastery does aside from make the shadow knives able to be used as melee weapons—mainly because "shadow" and "dagger" are both really common words in this quest, so a search result pulls up quite a few irrelevant results.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm actually having a bit of difficulty finding out the specifics of what the Shadow Dagger mastery does aside from make the shadow knives able to be used as melee weapons
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Pretty sure that's the entirety of what the mastery does, lets us hold on to the shadow daggers and wield them rather than simply throw them. But given as they're melee weapons that can ignore armour that makes for a pretty decent effect, and a lot better for subtlety than "piercing" armour with Branulhune.
 
kingreaper said:
But given as they're melee weapons that can ignore armour that makes for a pretty decent effect, and a lot better for subtlety than "piercing" armour with Branulhune.
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In my opinion, Branulhune's armor piercing capabilities are perfectly subtle. After all, Branulhune pierces armour with a subtlety akin to a corrupt noble's neck being pierced by a guillotine. It's quick, definitive, and cleans up any possible loose ends in a tidy manner. Using, lets say, a Warhammer wouldn't be nearly as delicate.
 
So, all the Cathay stuff I'm delving into has been getting me to think about Dragomas, so I've decided I want to make a post about him.

Dragomas, to me, strikes me as one of the most important characters in DL. Not because he is super important to Mathilde's narrative specifically, but because he is one of DL's original characters with some of the greatest background influence and what I'd like to call "butterfly potential". Other characters in this category are Roswita van Hal and Heidi Haupt-Anderssen and by extension her son Mandred. All these characters have the potential to and already have created significant changes in the narrative from canon. Belegar has also changed a lot of things, but there the connection to Mathilde is inextricable so it's hard to say that he is a "background" factor. He's pretty front and center.

What makes Dragomas special is that he is a butterfly that has nothing to do with Mathilde's actions. Dragomas was determined by a 1D8 die roll from Boney to determine what college the Patriarch would be from when we came to approach him after we killed Alkharad, and then Boney came up with a backstory and character from there, resulting in this:
Boney said:
Dragomas took being a Journeyman to its ultimate extent and wandered into the Dark Lands. Many years after he was considered dead, he returned with a non-aggression pact from the Emperor of Cathay carved into a jade tablet. He was retroactively promoted to Lord Magister to grant him the authority to have negotiated it, and in the coming years he quickly rose through the Amber College in no small part because he was actually willing to engage in the politics of Altdorf. His discovery, hatching, and raising of the Imperial Dragon earned him the title of Magister Patriarch of the Amber Order, and him transforming into a Celestial Dragon in the Hall of Duels caused the previous Supreme Patriarch Alric to concede and go into a peaceful retirement. Since then, he has championed the cause of the Battle Wizards both on and off the battlefield, transforming them from living weapons sealed up between battles to men and women respected for their sacrifice who live lives of meditation and training inside gilded cages, and considers the Imperial Zoo to be his personal hobby.
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Boney made up one of the most interesting backstories for a character in this quest on a whim, and this character continued to be a staple in the background narrative that shapes the world that Mathilde lives in despite her having nothing to do with it. Mathilde doesn't know what Dragomas is doing at any point in time and doesn't often influence what he does, but what he does has an effect on the Empire and the Colleges and that therefore has an effect on her.

For example, this entire arc we're going through in regards to Alric, us pulling Horstmann from under him, the takeover from Mira, all of that. None of it would have happened if Dragomas hadn't beaten Alric. In fact, you could argue that it wouldn't have happened if Dragomas hadn't beaten Alric so soundly that he effectively ended up humiliated. Dragomas' actions indirectly lead to this entire arc in Talabheim and the death of a prospective Everchosen with a connection to Mathilde's quest start, neatly tying up a loose end, through sheer coincidence. That is the kind of effect that his actions have.

Then, we approach one of the more interesting questions about Dragomas. We really don't know much about him aside from his deeds, but what we do know is that Dragomas made his way across the Dark Lands as a Journeyman, acquired a peace treaty with the Emperor of Cathay, and somehow learned to turn into a Celestial Dragon. This was before the new Cathay lore, but even then it was a frankly ridiculous deed that would have required either absurd talent or as some theorise, that he might be a Dragon in disguise:
Boney said:
"Hard-won, but yes. Konstantin would never allow the Imperial Army within Wissenland, so the Emperor turned his full attention here, and with most of the Battle Wizards off enjoying themselves in Sylvania it fell to the highest echelons to fill the void. Alric's up at the Temple, Mira's seeing to the wounded, and No-Relation Reicthard and Dragomas are still below, ferreting out the last of them." He frowns. "Don't tell Dragomas I said 'ferreting'. He's a bit touchy about that."

You're about to ask him to clarify, but with a faint rumble an enormous creature bursts from the ground, and only Algard's lack of reaction keeps you from trying something desperate and foolish with Branulhune. It seems like an elongated lizard with a moustache, or, yes, like a scaled ferret, and despite its lack of wings it floats through the air with the ease of an eel through the water. It speaks in a surprisingly normal and very familiar voice, "dead-ends on branches 12, 14 and 15. 13 had a chamber with a few holdouts, flag it for searching."
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This could perhaps be taken as evidence that he is a Dragon as disguise. Apparently he gets touchy about his Dragon form being called a ferret, which indicates a level of attachement to his form. Or maybe all the effort he put into achieving the form makes him fond of it so he doesn't like people degrading it by comparing it to a ferret. Or maybe turning into the Dragon form makes him feel like a dragon, which getss him attached to the form. Either way, there are a few reasons you could propose as to why he'd be touchy about how he looks in dragon form.
Boney said:
"Do you think you could take on Dragomas?"

"What?" You consider that for all of two seconds. "No. Absolutely not. He went off the edge of the map to the 'here be dragons' and came back with the ability to turn into one. And it's even stronger than the ones the other Ambers can turn into."

"That's a shame. He's a surprisingly difficult nut to crack."
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This here is Mathilde outright mentioning that Dragomas' dragon form is stronger than the ones that the other Ambers can turn into. What I'm interested here is which Dragon form is Mathilde referring to? Kadon lets you turn into either a Horned Dragon or a Great Fire Dragon.

Horned Dragon is not super powerful at Weapon Skill, Strength and Wounds of 5, Toughness of 6, Attacks and Initiative at 4 and Leadership at 7, coupled with 4+ scaly skin save and Strength 2 Breath Attack. Great Fire Dragon on the other hand, is much more powerful at Weapons Skill, Strength, Toughness, Wounds and Attacks 8, Initative 1, Leadership 9 and 2+ Scaly Skin and Strength 5 Breath Attack. That is more powerful than a Star Dragon.

However, Emperor Dragons are superior to Great Fire Dragons at a statblock of all 9s basically, so maybe Dragomas can turn into their equivalent. That is the assumption I made when I created a statblock for Dragomas all that time ago. I'm pretty sure the Dragons of Cathay are also in that ballpark from what I've seen.
Codex said:
From there, wealth would flow, curiosities would be acquired, and perhaps they could make a link to the West. He remembered that young man who had stood up to him so many years ago, who had managed to make his way to his Father and gained so much power and influence as a result.

He wondered how Dragomas was doing. Perhaps he could find out.
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So then, if we take the new lore into consideration, is Dragomas one of the Dragon Children? Or is he just a ballsy immensely talented and powerful human who went off to the East as a Journeyman, impressed Zhao Ming, went on an adventure to the north of Cathay, met Xen Yang the Celestial Emperor, got a peace treaty, and they all liked him enough to teach him the secrets of Celestial Dragons so he can turn into one with a Battle Magic that he was not authorised to learn until he was at least a Magister?

I don't know really. I like both theories. I like the idea of a human making it all the way west and impressing the godlike dragon powers of the east to be able to turn into a Dragon, but I also like the idea of him being a Dragon in disguise who decided he wanted to make his own way. Either way, I certainly think that he made an impression on the Dragons of Cathay, and this is the ideal Zhao Ming/Dragomas dynamic:
Dragomas is Ace in that picture. If you know anything about One Piece, then I can assume you know why.
 
Codex said:
Other characters in this category are Roswita van Hal and Heidi Haupt-Anderssen and by extension her son Mandred. All these characters have the potential to and already have created significant changes in the narrative from canon. Belegar has also changed a lot of things, but there the connection to Mathilde is inextricable so it's hard to say that he is a "background" factor.
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Thorgrim Grudge-and-Rebuilding-bearer? Boris the Badass Bear Bro, coordinating the response to the return of Karak Vlag?

Dragomas being Amber might have been a D8, but I like to imagine that "How awesome is he?" was the result of a stealth crit roll, because it opens the terrifying possibility that other stealth crit rolls are happening against us, like here. Just imagine, the skaven could crit-roll to start their moon-crashing ritual early and successfully and the everqueen crit fails the repulsion ritual and we get to find out what Boney's vision of post-apocalyptic Warhammer world looks like. The Slann or Malekith could be rolling mad shit and we'd never know until it was too late.
 
Lampshade said:
Thorgrim Grudge-and-Rebuilding-bearer? Boris the Badass Bear Bro, coordinating the response to the return of Karak Vlag?

Dragomas being Amber might have been a D8, but I like to imagine that "How awesome is he?" was the result of a stealth crit roll, because it opens the terrifying possibility that other stealth crit rolls are happening against us, like here. Just imagine, the skaven could crit-roll to start their moon-crashing ritual early and successfully and the everqueen crit fails the repulsion ritual and we get to find out what Boney's vision of post-apocalyptic Warhammer world looks like. The Slann or Malekith could be rolling mad shit and we'd never know until it was too late.
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Thorgrim has only just started changing things. Boris' effect is very subtle at the moment because he's not the Tzar. Wait until his dad dies fighting goblins and then he can start changing things. Boris is limited by the fact that he's not Tzar and the fact that he has yet to embark on his trip to revitalise the Cult of Ursun, which granted him his legitimacy.

Also, Boris changing stuff is just canon. It's not butterflying anything, it's what he's supposed to do. The Vlag change was a Mathilde butterfly, so I'm not giving credit to Boris for doing the basic job that his father should be doing. Vladimir is kind of an embarassment.
 
How would the empire face against Cathy if you placed them at each other.

Haven't seen that much if Cathy yet, but they do seem to generally be more advanced in most subjects
 
Sa'kage said:
How would the empire face against Cathy if you placed them at each other.

Haven't seen that much if Cathy yet, but they do seem to generally be more advanced in most subjects
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Cathay is advanced in some areas, less advanced in others. For example, Cathay seems to still practice serfdom. While the Empire has some elements of feudalism left over, it's largely moved on into a different style of government. There are advantages and disadvantages to argue about that. Cathay also has pretty good gunpowder and craftsmanship, but the Empire has them beat on industry. Cathay is kind of Dwarf like in that master craftsmanship is more important than standardisation and pumping out equipment, so changes are slow to be adopted and equipment tends to have quite a bit of variation because it's thousands of master smiths working on something instead of a factory doing it.

Cathay also completely and utterly lacks steam technology. Cathay's airships are the result of Vermillion Warbirds providing lift, and that makes it so that their sky fleet is unbelievably slow in comparison to the Dwarf's air force. Cathay's sky lanterns and sky junks are amazing against groundbound enemies with no projectiles, but if the enemy has lots of ranged attacks or flyers, then the lanterns are doomed without the protection of the pretty rare Longma Riders.

I could go on and on about the pros and cons and comparisons between Cathay and the Empire. The important thing to remember however, is that Cathay is a defensive force. They've spent all their history protecting their lands and a lot of their power comes from staying in that place, as the Wu Xing Compass only affects Cathay and the Great Bastion is a vital part of their protection and the Celestial River that the Spirit Dragon sleeps in is in that place and so is the rare materials that Zhao Ming collects and the like. Offence is not their thing.

Finally, if the question is who would win between Cathay and the Empire? Chaos. The world would end if the two nations got into a war.
 
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