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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Codex said:
I've noticed that the Character Sheet has been updated today, but I can't find what changed with any accuracy because I don't know how to diffcheck. Just to check however, did we have this before?
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It was probably the addition to the authors of the paper Boney talked earlier about.
Boney said:
Karag Dum: the Third Schism of the Karaz Ankor, including Observations on the Shadowgave, by L.M. Mathilde Weber (Grey), Thane Borek Forkbeard (Karag Dum), Prince Asarnil (Caledor), L.M.(E). Ljiljana (H.L.V.), Head Ranger Snorri Farstrider (Karak Kadrin), Head Engineer Gotrek Gurnisson (S·T·T·L), Preceptor Joerg von Zavstra (K. Taal's Fury), Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger (Ulrikadrin), M. Egrimm van Horstmann (Light), M. Esber (Amber) & M. Seija (Amber), M. Johann (Gold), M. Maximilian de Gaynesford (Gold), M. Michel Solmann (Celestial), J. Alexandra Kohler (Bright), J. Barbitus (Light), J. Citharus (Light), J. Cyrston von Danling (Jade), J. Timpania (Light), J. Hubert Denzel (Celestial), 2487.
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Something I like about Age of Sigmar is the lack of obscurity when it comes to some things. You always know when someone is a Wizard or a Priest, and therefore if they use Arcane or Divine magic, or even both, as Nagash is both a Wizard and a Priest. Runesmiths, or at least the Age of Sigmar equivalent, are firmly Priests, and are never Wizards. They get to use "Miracles" through runic enchantments usually. Sure the Runes are literally hammered into the skin of Dwarven warriors, but when you're barely wearing anything you make do with what you have.
 
I'm pretty sure it's not a secret to the Dwarves whether their magic is divine or not. It's only a secret to the audience because the authors never bothered to explain it. Pre-Age of Sigmar any non human systems were given the bare minimum to understand it without ever going all that in depth into it. They just kept releasing the 160th book on the Empire expanding on stuff we already knew about or retconning stuff and then continue to focus on Reikland.

Go to the wikipedia list for WFRP 4th Edition Books that have been released. Count how many books were released specifically for Reikland and the regions in Reikland, compare it to any other place. You'll see where their focus lies.
 
Jreengus said:
Become a runesmith and find out!
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Does this mean it isn't canon to Warhammer and purely Boney headcanon?

Or since it's an impossibility in the first place even Boney doesn't know and never will decide on one or the other?

Your post suggests the latter, seems more probable to be the latter.

Cause I mean your comment suggests it's an option viable in the quest, but prior to that everybody said no one would even be willing to train us.
 
Mathilde's stats are honestly kind of nuts; her lowest score is 18, and all but one of her others are over 20 (with one edging 30). She might not have a huge collection of situational bonuses, but when it comes to raw ability she's kinda OP.
 
If Runesmithing was metaphysically hard-locked to descendants of Thungni, the Cult wouldn't need strictures about not revealing the secrets to outsiders and preventing any revealed secrets from being allowed to spread.
 
Swantree said:
Does this mean it isn't canon to Warhammer and purely Boney headcanon?

Or since it's an impossibility in the first place even Boney doesn't know and never will decide on one or the other?

Your post suggests the latter, seems more probable to be the latter.

Cause I mean your comment suggests it's an option viable in the quest, but prior to that everybody said no one would even be willing to train us.
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As I said, I'm not sure anybody knows if Rune Magic is divine or not. Is it cultural or literal that you need Thungni's blood? I don't know. It's not in the books. The last book that gave super close details on the Dwarves and their practices was the 1st Edition Stone and Steel book, which Boney continues to use btw, for lack of other sources. There are bits and pieces here and there that you can use to piece together a society, but I'm sure if you asked Boney how much work he had to put in to develop the Dwarves compared to how much work he had to put in for the Empire, you would see that a lot of gaps were already filled for the humans but not the Dwarves.

Short answer, there is no answer. Boney would figure it out.
 
Swantree said:
Does this mean it isn't canon to Warhammer and purely Boney headcanon?

Or since it's an impossibility in the first place even Boney doesn't know and never will decide on one or the other?

Your post suggests the latter, seems more probable to be the latter.

Cause I mean your comment suggests it's an option viable in the quest, but prior to that everybody said no one would even be willing to train us.
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Ok so first up I am not a loremaster on warhammer lore so others can help more here but my understanding is:

Warhammer lore: Only descendants of Thungni can become runesmiths it is not explicitly stated whether this is tradition or a requirement.

Boney Lore: The current body is what matters, only the runesmiths can tell you whether this is because of tradition or an actual requirement.


E: Ninja'd by Boney.
 
Boney said:
If Runesmithing was metaphysically hard-locked to descendants of Thungni, the Cult wouldn't need strictures about not revealing the secrets to outsiders and preventing any revealed secrets from being allowed to spread.
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I get that, on the other hand they are dwarfs, they could be doing it out of an abundance of caution or because they do not know themselves. It might also be that they are concerned that a non-descendant could by some means gain the heritage though sorcery, magic can do a lot of strange and terrible things especially if you are willing to touch the Bad Magic.
 
Boney said:
Spell Creation - Traits
Creating a spell from scratch requires a relevant trait. Some traits explicitly allow spells to be created in a general sphere, and can be stretched fairly generously to cover various effects. Any other traits can be used to a much narrower extent, generally only to accomplish something directly relating to that trait. All created spells need to remain within the constraints and themes of Grey Magic, which means that some traits will be completely incompatible with spell creation.
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Just for clarification, is part of the reason for this rule to reduce the number of "does this spell creation idea work" you get or some similar QOL reason? I've had an idea to use favours to get wizards to invent spells for us, but it's not something I want if that'd be skirting around a limitation you introduced to make running the quest a manageable endeavour.
 
Finally updated the Character list. There are so many Kislev characters now that I've created a separate category for them instead of lumping them in Miscellaneous because they were crowding the place:
Codex said:
Venceslava: A severe-looking woman perhaps a few years older than Mathilde, with prematurely grey hair and wearing a sky-blue dress and cloak. Tried to conceal her annoyance at Mathilde not jumping when she attempted to sneak up and whisper in her ear about Kislevite witches following cliches. Ice Witch.

Zlataone: Young and dressed in a loose white sundress more suited to a Tilean summer than a Kislevite autumn. Translates Reikspiel for Milica and interrupts to point out Mathilde doesn't look like a dwarf, indicating a sense of humor. Ice Maiden, not yet a full Witch. Has been chosen as the candidate to represent the Ice Court in the Waystone Project.

Milica: Ice Witch. Older and larger (possibly quite muscular) than Zlataone while scowling up at the palace of the Tzar like it offended her while ignoring the light-brown hawk apparently grooming her hair. Doesn't speak Reikspiel and is consistently elbowed by Liljana whenever she speaks. Her hawk is her familiar. Capable melee fighter with the ability to form ice swords and shred enemies with ice shards and slow them down with Ice Magic. Capable Battle Magic user. Full name might be Militsa Lushadoch Gmelin, a canonical character who has one quoted segment in Realm of the Ice Queen recounting the history of the Ice Witches.

Ljiljana: One of the four Hromada Ledyanoy Ved'ma Mathilde met, she is a Gospodarinyi Ice Witch with white hair. An old and energetic woman with quite the strong personality, she was sent by the Ice Witches to retrieve Za Goblet with Mathilde's assistance, and seemed relatively carefree about her possible death. Quite powerful and capable of channeling the Ice Magic of Kislev, connected to the Ancient Widow of the land. She has very strong opinions about the relations of magic and the Divine, and seems to view Ursun, Dazh and Tor as the Ancient Widow's brothers. Her ability to channel the energy of her gods and summon their manifestations of the physical realm to achieve her mission put some truth to her words and puts her in the "technically a divine caster" territory. She is also capable of a wide variety of spells, including the same enviromental manipulation as Milica and the ability to turn into a Frost Fiend. Title is "Ice Crone".

Evelina Bebchuk: One of the six possible choices for the Ice Court representative to the Waystone Project. Her name is infamous in the Total War Warhammer 3 community thanks to the name generator constantly generating Frost Maidens with her name, filling up the logs with Evelina Bebchuk.

Walpura: One of the six possible choices for the Ice Court Representative to the Waystone Project. Might be related to the Ice Witch of the same name in Praag mentioned in Realm of the Ice Queen.

Nadezhda: Ice Maiden and former apprentice to Ljiljana. She is around her thirties, never learned Reikspiel, and has a crush on Boris and desires to ride him, which is why she came to his support in the Battle of Shirokij (according to Ljiljana of course). She only dabbled on the lightest of Battle Magic, putting her capabilities below Ljiljana and Milica, but still able to contribute to the battle to a significant degree thanks to a river that she froze over, bogging down the enemy. Tzar Vladimir Bokha: Kislev's Tzar, seems to only care about killing and eating according to his son. Ice Witches don't like him much. Capable battle strategist who makes it his hobby to charge into battle the instant there is a problem to solve with violence. Has a personal taxidermist and was fully satisfied with a Manticore corpse for display despite missing a glorious battle.

Tsarevich Boris Bokha: Heir to the position of Tzar, more well liked by the Ice Witches. He was in charge of discussing the Waystone project with Mathilde and was willing to provide nearly anything Mathilde needed if she could push back chaos. Intense and straightforward man, faithful to Ursun and seemingly skilled in combat. Wields an enchanted Ice Glaive known as the Ice Shard which significantly boosts his combat prowess, and has shown himself capable of taking down a Manticore and Treeman with support. Inspiring leader who's managed to form a strong rapport with the Kossars and the Kreml Guard, bringing them firmly under his control. Currently building connections with the Ice Witches. He is also well read, having known of the "Impossible March of the Damned Soldier" ritual from having read about it, as opposed to his father, who doesn't know how valuable Manticore dung is.

Bedrich: Kislevite Border Guard within the settlement of Rakhov. Big, strong, and dim according to his supervisor, and he would constantly go to his captain to ask questions when he became confused, which Captain Loza preferred.

Captain Loza: Kovnik (Captain) serving as a border guard who checks people's credentials within the settlement of Rakhov in Kislev. Seems to think highly of himself and he was quite eager to ruin a foreign noble's day if they thought they could get by the border without proper credentials. He was able to adapt to a situation that he did not expect quickly enough however.

Boyar Kirill: The Boyar of the Kislevite town/region of Rakhov. He is a bearded man wearing the tall fur hat of a boyar and the golden sun medallion of the Cult of Dazh, and it is hard to tell through his layers of clothing whether he is well-muscled, well-fed, or both. Faithful of Dazh, speaks Reikspiel and Kislevarin (Gospodarinyi), good relationship with the Ice Witches, looks down on the slow city Boyars, and quite eager for battle (grinning at the thought of three pulks led by one Boyar drawing out the Tzar). Reasonable and determined man.

Boyar Kalashinivik: The Boyar of the Kislevite town of Resvynhaf and the surrounding Shirokij villages. The Praag Kalashiniviks supported Tzarina Kattarin the Bloody's reign and were purged by Tzar Pavel, but the Resvynhaf Kalashiniviks were not found to have any connection so they were let loose. The Boyar was off on a trip to Praag when the Battle of the Shirokij occured, and from Drycha's perspective, she apparently wanted him due to a mixed lineage between the Ice of the North (Lineage of the Khan Queens?) and the Sands of the South (Nehkhara?), implying a possible connection to the Vampire Tzarina Kattarin the Bloody. While he has not participated in the Battle, the Ice Witches are determined to examine the situation, granting them favor with Tsarevich Boris.

Boyar of Fort Jakova: Boyar of Fort Jakova, remained in the mountains during the Battle of the Shirokij due to unrest in the mountains. Possible troubles with Karak Ungor? Goblin corpses were spotted floating down the Talabec, which is connected to the Urskoy that is fed by the mountain streams close to Jakova.

Baba Gyulk: One of the six possible choices for the Hag Witch Representative for the Waystone Project. Mentioned in Realm of the Ice Queen, praising the Ice Witches role in maintaining the order.

Baba Olna: One of the six possible choices for the Hag Witch Representative for the Waystone Project. Mentioned in the Realm of the Ice Queen as a spirit specialist.

Baba Doya: One of the six possible choices for the Hag Witch Representative for the Waystone Project. Mentioned in Realm of the Ice Queen. Nationalistic.

Baba Osuleg: One of the six possible choices for the Hag Witch Representative for the Waystone Project. Mentioned in Realm of the Ice Queen. In canon (which is set decades into the future), she leads a community of tainted (mutants) and has been afflicted with a mutation. Has some sort of sinister purpose.

Baba Pannochka: One of the six possible choices for the Hag Witch Representative for the Waystone Project. Boney original.

Baba Niedzwenka: The Hag Witch Representative for the Waystone Project. Boney original. She is from Erengrad.
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This is the description I cooked up for Drycha. I made sure none of what I felt came through on that one. I'm proud of summarizing an entire canonical character in like one paragraph and managing to sum up how much of a failure she turned out to be:
Codex said:
Drycha: Ancient Branchwraith and Ulgu caster with a deepseated grudge against the Elves. Born of Addaivoch, the Tree of Woe in Athel Loren, she has spent the last millenia and beyond seeking a method to release the one she used to serve as Handmaiden to, the corrupted Treeman Ancient Coeddil, from his Wildwood prison. As a result, she has seeked several artifacts across the world and across the years, until she came across Mathilde in the Battle of the Shirokij. Fed bad information, rushing into a kill zone that she didn't realise was going to be there, having expected little to no resistance, and firmly rejected by the Forest she was attempting to use for her benefit, she was thoroughly and utterly outclassed and split in half, with her top half incinerated by the Dragonflask. Whether she still lives in one way or another is unknown, but she is unlikely to be a problem for a while. Her bottom half has been acquired as a material by Mathilde, likely to be fashioned into something in some shape or form.

Mathilde still doesn't know who she is.
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Good riddance.
 
Andres said:
Just for clarification, is part of the reason for this rule to reduce the number of "does this spell creation idea work" you get or some similar QOL reason? I've had an idea to use favours to get wizards to invent spells for us, but it's not something I want if that'd be skirting around a limitation you introduced to make running the quest a manageable endeavour.
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I think your underestimating how hard creating and teaching spells is.
 
You know, I recall that whenever we got done with a major undertaking such as K8P and the Dum Expedition, we got to choose what we took away from it and incorporate the lesson into our character.

If Drycha somehow survived, I wonder what lesson she gets to take away from this.
 
Amantalado said:
You know, I recall that whenever we got done with a major undertaking such as K8P and the Dum Expedition, we got to choose what we took away from it and incorporate the lesson into our character.

If Drycha somehow survived, I wonder what lesson she gets to take away from this.
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Don't get hit by invisible swords and incinerated by battle magic. If she avoids doing those things from now on, her life will be better.
 
Amantalado said:
You know, I recall that whenever we got done with a major undertaking such as K8P and the Dum Expedition, we got to choose what we took away from it and incorporate the lesson into our character.

If Drycha somehow survived, I wonder what lesson she gets to take away from this.
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I don't think we are going to het those for most of theses mini arc's

Waystone has way to many of them.
 
Codex said:
Finally updated the Character list. There are so many Kislev characters now that I've created a separate category for them instead of lumping them in Miscellaneous because they were crowding the place:

This is the description I cooked up for Drycha. I made sure none of what I felt came through on that one. I'm proud of summarizing an entire canonical character in like one paragraph and managing to sum up how much of a failure she turned out to be:

Good riddance.
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Drycha: "You took everything from me!"
Mathilde: "I don't even know who you are"
 
Double check your information and don't rush headlong into things like a buffoon. If she's capable of learning lessons. I would assume she does considering her lifespan but all my assumptions about her competence were incorrect, so who knows.
 
Andres said:
Just for clarification, is part of the reason for this rule to reduce the number of "does this spell creation idea work" you get or some similar QOL reason? I've had an idea to use favours to get wizards to invent spells for us, but it's not something I want if that'd be skirting around a limitation you introduced to make running the quest a manageable endeavour.
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There's worldbuilding reasons behind it too, but that's a a very big part of it, yeah. Even with that restriction in place I've still spent a disproportionately large amount of time and energy on fielding those questions, and I have no desire to multiply that by the entire population of the Colleges. And besides that, you wouldn't be able to buy spell invention with favours because of the very high risk of miscasting inherent in the process.
 
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