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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Jyn Ryvia said:
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That's not a problem with worshipping Elven gods, that's a problem with not realising that the Elves worship differently and don't have the same mono-focus humans apply to their own worship. Like, if a human was to worship an Elven god the same way they worshipped a human one there'd be no problem.
 
The most relevant actions have already been laid out, so this is mostly a collage ,but here goes:

[ ] Plan Mix
-[ ] EGRIMM: Experiment with integrating the Vitae into enchantments.
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: Books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands.
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (Adela).

-[ ] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
--[ ] Coin: The Gambler.

-[ ] [Optional actions, depending on how many we have left. Preference for studying Ghyran Nut.]
-[ ] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to export to the Empire.
-[ ] LIBRARY: Karak Vlag, starting with books on the Fire Spire.
-[ ] SERENITY: Book on Windsoak Mushroom (1/2)

DragonParadox said:
We gave the arm to Johann after a second vote and frankly I think you do Panoramia a disfavor by painting as some sort of irrational actor who would try to leverage her feelings and relationships to get the Ghyan nut for nebulous 'halfling purposes'. It feels a pit like trying to build a tower of assumptions out of one brick.
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What does the amount of votes have to do with the potential repercussions of refusal?

As for rationality and the lack thereof, I don't believe there is any doubt that the Nut would be useful to her current project, in which she is invested long term. From her interaction with Paranoth, we've seen that it's not just pure science, but her passion. My bricks are just fine.
 
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Lampshade said:
What does the amount of votes have to do with the potential repercussions of refusal?

As for rationality and the lack thereof, I don't believe there is any doubt that the Nut would be useful to her current project, in which she is invested long term. From her interaction with Paranoth, we've seen that it's not just pure science, but her passion. My bricks are just fine.
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The notion that because she is using a lot of Ghyan and the Nut has a lot of Ghyan therefore the second must be useful to the first is I think a lot more shaky than that. She has Waystones right there from which she can pull arbitrary amounts of Ghyan, once she is a magister she can trade for power stones... which you will note she has been avoiding thus far and had to be pushed into.
 
DragonParadox said:
The notion that because she is using a lot of Ghyan and the Nut has a lot of Ghyan therefore the second must be useful to the first is I think a lot more shaky than that.
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She has access to an arbitrary amount of Ghyran and yet, the valley is not in the state she hoped, because her work is more than just channeling Ghyran.

A druid with a passion project will pass up on a rare and powerful seed after investigating it? It could be the missing ingredient that she was looking for! Better make her case before anyone else does. And then she's told that instead of her loving care, the nut will be likely planted in some hellhole to wrangle its magical energies or just straight up sold off so someone else can do that. I think the potential for conflict is there, and don't see why we should take the risk.
 
Lampshade said:
What does the amount of votes have to do with the potential repercussions of refusal?

As for rationality and the lack thereof, I don't believe there is any doubt that the Nut would be useful to her current project, in which she is invested long term. From her interaction with Paranoth, we've seen that it's not just pure science, but her passion. My bricks are just fine.
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I don't think Panoramia is petty enough to feel entitled to something we bought ourselves, during a very dangerous expedition. Imo, our relationship can resist that even if it's the case.

And there is in fact doubt about the usefulness of the nut. We don't know if the Ghyran in it can be safely extracted/used, nor if it's magical effects can be repurposed to do something useful or if it's impossible to use it for any other purpose than its intended one.

Édit: Also, why couldn't we give her the nut? If there's no risk of an Asrai host showing up of course.

Edit2: and if she wants it and it's useful to her.
Why are we assuming we don't have the option to give it to her?
 
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Lampshade said:
She has access to an arbitrary amount of Ghyran and yet, the valley is not in the state she hoped, because her work is more than just channeling Ghyran.

A druid with a passion project will pass up on a rare and powerful seed after investigating it? It could be the missing ingredient that she was looking for! Better make her case before anyone else does. And then she's told that instead of her loving care, the nut will be likely planted in some hellhole to wrangle its magical energies or just straight up sold off so someone else can do that. I think the potential for conflict is there, and don't see why we should take the risk.
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Ok so it's 'a rare and powerful seed' is you think enough for her to claim it, you keep making these emotional arguments so let me be clear, it is entirely likely that the seed is wholly worthless for her purposes, that it cannot be planted and will not grow into anything anymore than that piece of Cathayan Jet we got would have become a tree. That seed is most like a talsiman the spellsingers of the Asrai use for chaos protection, there is no indication that seed + loving care will produce anything but a... oddly well hugged seed .
 
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DragonParadox said:
Ok so it's 'a rare and powerful seed' is you think enough for her to claim it, you keep making these emotion al actions so let me be clear, it is entirely likely that the seed is wholly worthless for her purposes, that it cannot be planted and will not grow into anything anymore than that piece of Cathayan Jet we got would have become a tree. That seed is most like a talsiman the spellsingers of the Asrai use for chaos protection, there is no indication that seed + loving care will produce anything but a... oddly well hugged seed .
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Yes? But risk assessment works on worst case.

K von Carstein said:
Édit: Also, why couldn't we give her the nut? If there's no risk of an Asrai host showing up of course.
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. . .
:facepalm:
. . .
I wanted to argue how much difference it could make strategically once we have a better map of the network, if it is a Seed of Ages and if it can act as a natural Waystone, but . . . if we have an unassailable tree in a Karak, we could have all the seeds nuts Acorns we want . . .
Assuming we find a way to live that long, of course 😈

So, to be clear: Yes, you are right, planting it right there is also a plausible alternative.
 
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Lampshade said:
Yes? But risk assessment works on worst case.
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But we should also consider the odds of something actually happening, we cannot base all our actions on the worst case. Or rather some combination of worst case ad best case, to illustrate
  1. Athel Loren is a nightmarish realm to trees that want to kill all interlopes and the elves which is barely tolerates, most of whom are also violent isolationists, so it is entirely possible, maybe even likely that Nut is worthless for diplomacy. So the first supposition is that those elves are minded to talk to us and if they care about the Ghyan Nut enough for it to have some value in that regard
  2. The Nut is a magic item, likely an anti-Chaos Charm, with our only indication that it might be useful for Panoramia is that it has a lot of Ghyan... in spite of the fact that she has no made use of power stones which are the most readily available sources of 'a lot of Ghyan in a box'. That is the second supposition which is I think the most shaky of the lot
  3. And finally if that Nut is useful than maybe Panoramia will be upset with us if we choose to give it to the... oddly diplomatic Asrai. That is the third supposition and the one you have been focusing on the most. For what it is worth I think your case is strongest here.
 
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DragonParadox said:
  1. Athel Loren is a nightmarish realm to trees that want to kill all interlopes and the elves which is barely tolerates, most of whom are also violent isolationists, so it is entirely possible, maybe even likely that Nut is worthless for diplomacy.
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I mean, just imagine.

"Hey there, I borrowed an Acorn and now we have our own Oak of Ages, so I came to return one, plus one extra as interest. So, are we friends now?"
 
Lampshade said:
I mean, just imagine.

"Hey there, I borrowed an Acorn and now we have our own Oak of Ages, so I came to return one, plus one extra as interest. So, are we friends now?"
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Thank you for the Acorns.

'Arrow through the eye'

Still took the first one.

(Sorry, but Asrai just such assholes 5ed on that it's hard to assume good behaviour from them, even if it's possible.)
 
Lampshade said:
I mean, just imagine.

"Hey there, I borrowed an Acorn and now we have our own Oak of Ages, so I came to return one, plus one extra as interest. So, are we friends now?"
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Seem Above: *Mathilde Weber talking to the murder tree that does not speak the same language at her and wants to kill her for trespassing*
or
Pissed off Elf border guard who just had to rescue us from a frozen time zone: Hand it over and I will lead you back to civilization

If we somehow managed to make another they might just ask for the tree as well.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
That's not a problem with worshipping Elven gods, that's a problem with not realising that the Elves worship differently and don't have the same mono-focus humans apply to their own worship. Like, if a human was to worship an Elven god the same way they worshipped a human one there'd be no problem.
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The whole thing of that post is Boney saying that humans worshipping Elven gods the same way they worship human gods causes problems?

DragonParadox said:
That seed is most like a talsiman the spellsingers of the Asrai use for chaos protection, there is no indication that seed + loving care will produce anything but a... oddly well hugged seed .
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When a Spellsinger uses an Acorn from the Oak of Ages as a talisman... they just use the Acorn, they don't convert it or something.

Like, it's battlefield effect is planting forests at the start of battle.

That said, I see no issue whatsoever with working with Pan on it.
 
veekie said:
The only link we got is that they're acorns.
This is arguing about the proper distribution of burgers you're getting out of unhatched eggs
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It's a magical nut stuffed so full of Ghyran it almost hurt Mathilde's 3rd eye to look at.

I'd be shocked if it's not from the Oak of Ages.
 
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Mopman43 said:
The whole thing of that post is Boney saying that humans worshipping Elven gods the same way they worship human gods causes problems?
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Yes, and my point was it wasn't worshipping Elven gods that was the problem. It was worshipping using Elven traditions (embody the traits of your gods) and a human mindset (worship one god above others), which leads to a monofocus on the traits of a single god, which is problematic no matter which god it is.
 
Preliminarily, I think Pan would just be interested in the nut as an object of study. Maybe even as a source of inspiration for her.

If she ends up finding something she genuinely wants out of it, I think she'd have a lot of tact when stating so since its not something we have more than one of.

I'm thinking back to when it was discovered how valuable Aetheric Vitae was discovered to be for Runelords, and how Thorek worded his sincere desire for it without being demanding or exerting any kind of pressure or guilt-tripping towards Mathy. It was just along the lines "I'm sure it would be very useful for you and what you wizards do, but we'd be grateful for whatever you can spare."

I assume that Pan would have that kind of response as well if she found she sincerely desired it, though it'd of course be different considering the nut being one of a kind in our possession and not a renewable resource.
 
So um, regarding the Mushroom book, I'd like to reiterate my stance in the hope that it is sufficiently sappy and moving:

Pan has done, iirc, about half the work on the 'shrooms: she gathered them of her own volition before the opportunity was lost. She kept them alive and well until we poked her to work on them and her greater expertise in that area looks to have had massive narrative effect. Mathilde helped, and pushed the project forward and provided the greenhouse. A joint project in all respects.


So I want the book to be an equal collaboration between Mathilde and Pan because I think it sounds cute[1] :).

(But it should be published after she becomes Magister 'cuz her mum has political enemies who might make a fuss about a journeywoman getting some sort of 'boost' from a Lady Magister)
(Also is not impossible that we might get some juicy Fresh paper to write this turn - maybe the Hedgewise woman's ritual for example, so if Pan is still not a Magister we may have something else worth writing.)

[1] Unless we add Max to the writing process too if AP efficiency somehow turns makes adding him a good idea or some such, that's fine by me.
 
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BeepSmile said:
So um, regarding the Mushroom book, I'd like to reiterate my stance in the hope that it is sufficiently sappy and moving:

Pan has done, iirc, about half the work on the 'shrooms: she gathered them of her own volition before the opportunity was lost. She kept them alive and well until we poked her to work on them and her greater expertise in that area looks to have had massive narrative effect. Mathilde helped, and pushed the project forward and provided the greenhouse. A joint project in all respects.


So I want the book to be an equal collaboration between Mathilde and Pan because I think it's sounds cute[1] :).

(But it should be published after she becomes Magister 'cuz her mum has political enemies who might make a fuss about a journeywoman getting some sort of 'boost' from a Lady Magister)
(Also is not impossible that we might get some juicy Fresh paper to write this turn, maybe the Hedgewise woman's ritual for example, so if Pan is still not a Magister we may have

[1] Unless we add Max to the writing process too if AP efficiency somehow turns makes adding him a good idea or some such, that's fine by me.
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I mean given that she has participated in the study I think that she will be credited automatically, that is what happened when the Ambers made the first We Paper. It's not like Mathilde was part of writing the thing but we still got our name on it and part of the credit.
 
DragonParadox said:
I mean given that she has participated in the study I think that she will be credited automatically, that is what happened when the Ambers made the first We Paper. It's not like Mathilde was part of writing the thing but we still got our name on it and part of the credit.
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80% of what I want would be filled with her getting the credit she's due (and I'm confident that would happen), but I also want it to be jointly written between the two if at all possible :)
 
I think Boris is the big winner of the Battle. Baring unforeseen circumstances All that is left is clean up and kill Drycha. But consider that the woodsmen, Kermit guard and assorted witches are responsible for ending these threat to Kislev. Boris in cannon was huge on reforming Kislev and him leading the battle will help him politically. Since he shows that infantry with magic support and scouts are highly effective. The ice witches also win since they provided a lot of support preventing loss of life. That is going to be a good bargaining chip for Mathilde.

As for the Acorn there are things we can use it for. The Eonir got 1 acorn and built a city around it. A city that is overcrowded . It would be a huge bargaining chip if they can build another one. Or it can be used for enchanting something with enough Ghyran that the jade college would open their doors and reveal most of not all their secrets. Or a Bargaining chips to the Asari. Not too sure about the last one need to ask the Eonir if they have ways to communicate with them.
 
Nurgle said:
The Eonir got 1 acorn and built a city around it. A city that is overcrowded . It would be a huge bargaining chip if they can build another one.
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There are several ruined cities the Eonir could rebuild first, if they wanted to.

They don't want to rebuild them because it is politically and economically advantageous for the major houses to keep the city overcrowded. Building a new city would weaken them.
 
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