Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Lampshade said:
I've said this so many times now, not just on this vote, but about the [Literally any political issue ever] as well—there is no justification, no "good reason", no excuse that allows [One group of people] to indiscriminately murder [Other group of people], and I'm sick and tired of the thread constantly forgiving [One group of people] for it and giving [Other group of people] shit for it when they dare to protest against their "betters".

FTFY :V:V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Lampshade said:
...

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Lampshade said:
You mean the Fimir? Those were basically almost genocided by the Old Ones when they warmed up the planet. More moral. Please. Such moral. Much wow.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Lampshade said:
I bet Ariel knows how to make a Waystone though :V
[><] Attempt a parlay
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Sniping from the sidelines with memes might be fun but it does a disservice to everyone who is trying their best to tackle a pretty challenging topic. I'll ask you to engage in good faith or not at all.

Stewart9 said:
Boss if the giving of this kind of gift would be taken the wrong way most of the time and most of the Ice Witches are the slowest part of a Kislevite army then what is the state of things like the enchanted sled's/chariots they some times use and the special horses who breath is like a icy wind that Katarin is said to have in the lore and are they something special to the royals.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

At the current time, of the 186 years since the Great War Against Chaos, Kislev has spent 156 of them under the rule of a vampire with a spree-killing habit and the last 15 under the rule of a man who is a decent general but a terrible administrator. It has basically not recovered at all since the Great War. The state of Kislev in general and the Ice Witches in particular in canon is after two divinely-blessed geniuses in a row, one of them an incredibly talented military reformer and the other an immensely powerful Ice Witch with a powerful and ruthless knack for centralization of power.
 
Given that Drycha is as war with the Asrai, I'm still not sure why people are bringing them up or going on about how terrible they are, if we believe it's her.

Athel Loren would probably be overjoyed if we or the Kislevites somehow cut Drycha down.

It's worth remembering that in canon the Asrai intervened to save Karl Franz as an infant and parlayed with the Empire around the current IC date, because they recognised their importance (quite possibly as a buffer against Chaos).
 
Last edited:
[X] Attempt a parlay

Voting for this because I think the Wood Elves are probably here for a reason. If they're here because of a Chaos incursion of some sort, we need to be fighting Chaos and not the Wood Elves. If they're here because humans are doing something they shouldn't be, then we might be able to avoid all the bloodshed.

At the end of the day, when the mortal races fight the only winner is Chaos.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
[X] Attempt a parlay

Voting for this because I think the Wood Elves are probably here for a reason. If they're here because of a Chaos incursion of some sort, we need to be fighting Chaos and not the Wood Elves. If they're here because humans are doing something they shouldn't be, then we might be able to avoid all the bloodshed.

At the end of the day, when the mortal races fight the only winner is Chaos.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
OOC we know it's probably Drycha, not the Wood Elves. There's no real point to diplomacy with Drycha.
 
So, I want to challenge the idea that there is no diplomacy with Drycha. This strikes me as point exaggerated into a meme, like all skaven being unredeemable evil backstabbers, that does not actual translate into the Boney version of this world because the shallow/stupid/evil bits get rationalized or recontextualized.

I find it quite likely that Drycha is, here, capable of dialogue and planning. Why?

It makes her scarier.

If she can recruit allies, and seed rumors, and play enemies off of eachother, she becomes a bigger threat as a person than she is as a mindless force. And she's got incentive to treat different groups differently: the ones that hate elves and the ones that don't hate trees are likely to be higher in her esteem.
 
13th Bee said:
OOC we know it's probably Drycha, not the Wood Elves. There's no real point to diplomacy with Drycha.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Briermaven of Woe is as likely to give a crap about what a human has to say as a Khorne follower is to not want your skull which is to say zero. Other spirits we could talk to at least, this one would just make us plant food.

Glau said:
So, I want to challenge the idea that there is no diplomacy with Drycha. This strikes me as point exaggerated into a meme, like all skaven being unredeemable evil backstabbers, that does not actual translate into the Boney version of this world because the shallow/stupid/evil bits get rationalized or recontextualized.

I find it quite likely that Drycha is, here, capable of dialogue and planning. Why?

It makes her scarier.

If she can recruit allies, and seed rumors, and play enemies off of eachother, she becomes a bigger threat as a person than she is as a mindless force. And she's got incentive to treat different groups differently: the ones that hate elves and the ones that don't hate trees are likely to be higher in her esteem.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

While it is true that she is fully capable of manipulating beings in to accomplishing her goals for her at times, she would never see anything other then other spirits as allies and we have nothing she would take as a deal except maybe the Acorn we have, and that is not something I would let her anywhere near.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Ah, I didn't read the discussion. How'd we figure it out?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's an educated guess based off the discription of what Mathilde felt IIRC.

Glau said:
So, I want to challenge the idea that there is no diplomacy with Drycha. This strikes me as point exaggerated into a meme, like all skaven being unredeemable evil backstabbers, that does not actual translate into the Boney version of this world because the shallow/stupid/evil bits get rationalized or recontextualized.

I find it quite likely that Drycha is, here, capable of dialogue and planning. Why?

It makes her scarier.

If she can recruit allies, and seed rumors, and play enemies off of eachother, she becomes a bigger threat as a person than she is as a mindless force. And she's got incentive to treat different groups differently: the ones that hate elves and the ones that don't hate trees are likely to be higher in her esteem.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's a difference between mindless and utterly opposed to diplomacy though. You can do a lot of that stuff without ever needing to talk to people. I actually find it pretty likely that Drycha has minions that do that sort of stuff, and anywhere she herself is in command is a battlefield. Drycha is presented as a revolutionary firebrand type. She attracts followers and allies through charisma and zealotry, not diplomacy. Indeed, diplomacy would weaken her ideological position, that everyone needs to leave the woods the fuck alone. Her followers may choose to make deals, but she can't afford to, or at least, can't afford being seen to.
 
Nurgle said:
The smell of lilacs and the endless stream of dark curses are her signature calling card. She is from Athel Loran and frankly if it been a war party the elves would already be burning towns and constantly murdering people for fun, or a bet, or Beastmen, or fun, or because they want something.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Asrai are not in fact a bunch of simple murderers. They're perfectly capable of not killing people if it serves their goal. This is probably a trap for the Boyar, and the Asrai are definitley patient enough to wait for a target ratehr murder willy-nilly for the sake of it. If anything, the forest spirits are less capable of restraint, being more instinct driven than the Elves.
 
Stewart9 said:
While it is true that she is fully capable of manipulating beings in to accomplishing her goals for her at times, she would never see anything other then other spirits as allies and we have nothing she would take as a deal except maybe the Acorn we have, and that is not something I would let her anywhere near.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


So, you are voting explicitly on OOC information?
 
Glau said:
So, you are voting explicitly on OOC information?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No, while out OC we can be almost certain who is the boss of the enemy the update itself told us that we are dealing with a very malevolent and powerful Spirit from Athel Loren. Thus I feel that our best options are either bring more magical power to the fight that will happen or find information about why the spirits are here and after this Boyar in particular when there are things this group of spirits hate's a lot more.
 
Investigating the Boyar might give us some unique insight into how to play out this battle, or it might not. But I think it's the most important action in the wider strategic view of figuring out what's happening here, and how to prevent it from happening again, and I don't think Mathilde's going to stick around afterwards to investigate.

It's also possible that upon word reaching him of the Asrai's attacks on his land, he'll move to cover up whatever it was that attracted their attention, in which case investigating is time-sensitive.
 
I'm really quite confused why the foremost opinion is "talking will do nothing" when quite often in the thread talking brought us immense opportunities or solved problems.
Let's do a quick list.
-we talked to a lahmian which we should have killed on the spot (got a empress out of that)
- we talked to a hysh dragon which we should have tried to Bombard or something (got a reading buddy out of that)
- we brainwashed a skaven when literally everyone else would have just tortured him and then cut his head off. (got a language out of that one)
- we also were willing to go to the main bastion of the chaos dwarfs for supplies (when that could have backfired horrible, got a arm, a nut and some picture out of that)

Mathilde did always good with words even if her diplo score isn't that great. Yes drycha isn't know for her diplomacy but she's also not known for stalking random boyar in Kislev border region. She's here for a reason, and knowing that reason or talking her around is worth a shot.
 
Tobtorp said:
I'm really quite confused why the foremost opinion is "talking will do nothing" when quite often in the thread talking brought us immense opportunities or solved problems.
Let's do a quick list.
-we talked to a lahmian which we should have killed on the spot (got a empress out of that)
- we talked to a hysh dragon which we should have tried to Bombard or something (got a reading buddy out of that)
- we brainwashed a skaven when literally everyone else would have just tortured him and then cut his head off. (got a language out of that one)
- we also were willing to go to the main bastion of the chaos dwarfs for supplies (when that could have backfired horrible, got a arm, a nut and some picture out of that)

Mathilde did always good with words even if her diplo score isn't that great. Yes drycha isn't know for her diplomacy but she's also not known for stalking random boyar in Kislev border region. She's here for a reason, and knowing that reason or talking her around is worth a shot.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You forget at least those :
- Approaching the steepe nomads and ended up negociating passage through the chaos wastes and resupply,
- Also, again, negociating passage through the Norse Village in exchange for a ceremonial duel.

You know what :

[x] Attempt a parlay
[x] Scout the Shirokij
[x] Contact Ostermark


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISxSZaLN8S4
 
Last edited:
Seems I missed all the discussion for this, but if we really wanted to give Shadowhorse belts to Kislev I think approaching Boris about equipping the Kreml Guard with them might be a good bet. Why? Because it strikes me that Boris knowing about the Rite of the Damned Soldier isn't just due to lessons on logistics or whatever, but an attempt to solve a problem that everyone in Kislev seems to be familiar with. Namely, the fact that the Kreml Guard are slow as a slug crawling through the rasputitsa. Turning this force of heavy infantry into a mounted one would be quite the boon, meaning they can now keep up with, if not outrun, most of Kislev's conventional forces. Also, the fact that they fight as infantry means having magic horses is a benefit, since they can just be turned off when it's time to fight, as opposed to needing a dedicated logistical tail taking care of physical horses. Plus, Boris has shown himself to be open to unorthodox solutions to things, so he might be more likely to adopt them despite being a sting to Kislev pride.
 
The main issue with Parley/Bohka is as such:
-We don't actually have the power to enforce the conclusion of any parley.
--Signs indicate this is Drycha, who considers the continued existence of both humans and elves to be something that should be remedied.
--Kislev's forces have made it clear what they believe is the only acceptable answer to a foreign force on their land, killing their villagers. Blood. Or closest available substitute
--This is NOT the Empire. Our sole authority here is that some of their high ranking people have been impressed by us and will actually listen before dismissing us rather than doing it out of hand.

In essence, our best bet lies in making sure the battle to come immediately after goes well THEN, if circumstances allow, chase down loose ends.

...that and I don't think Kislev's forces would take it all that well if an Imperial interrogated one of their leaders.
 
NuclearConsensus said:
Seems I missed all the discussion for this, but if we really wanted to give Shadowhorse belts to Kislev I think approaching Boris about equipping the Kreml Guard with them might be a good bet. Why? Because it strikes me that Boris knowing about the Rite of the Damned Soldier isn't just due to lessons on logistics or whatever, but an attempt to solve a problem that everyone in Kislev seems to be familiar with. Namely, the fact that the Kreml Guard are slow as a slug crawling through the rasputitsa. Turning this force of heavy infantry into a mounted one would be quite the boon, meaning they can now keep up with, if not outrun, most of Kislev's conventional forces. Also, the fact that they fight as infantry means having magic horses is a benefit, since they can just be turned off when it's time to fight, as opposed to needing a dedicated logistical tail taking care of physical horses. Plus, Boris has shown himself to be open to unorthodox solutions to things, so he might be more likely to adopt them despite being a sting to Kislev pride.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There is a whole order of magnitude in the number of artefacts required though. It's one thing to give a few relatively simple magic items, it's another entirely to produce the hundred of them it would require to move a military force around. We would pretty much need to create a production chain. That's the kind of thing I expect Cathar or Karaz Ankor to do, not the Colleges.
 
veekie said:
--Signs indicate this is Drycha, who considers the continued existence of both humans and elves to be something that should be remedied.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We don't know this is Drycha in character, first off. Second, Mathilde doesn't know Drycha's motivations and inner working the way someone who has read the books does.

So again, this feels like breaking the established character due to OOC information.

Mathilde, as the two posters with the lists above were so kind to show, tries to talk to people.
 
Last edited:
Glau said:
Mathilde, as the two posters with the lists above were so kind to show, tries to talk to people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She tries to talk to people, but in this context, I don't see how this doesn't lead to blood.

Even if we assume that this is a band of Wood Elves that are entirely capable of diplomacy... I don't think there's anything they could say that wouldn't see Kislev want to push them off by force. For pretty justifiable reasons.
 
[X] Attempt a parlay

Would be easier if we had Laurelorn reps here but this is important. It may not have a high success chance but we could really use Athel Loren's help and it might be possible to resolve this without bloodshed. We should try for that if it's at all possible.
 
Glau said:
So... Are there other people in thread who have experience with horses? Because we had a pair of Arabians boarded at our farm for years and a few riding horses of our own, and the main conclusion I drew from this is that horses are fragile, prone to random freakouts, flighty, and sneaky. I've got a vet friend who swears they are the only creatures she knows who can scare themselves dead for no reason.

I'm very much not suprised that horses and magic do not mix.



"I know better than you how to do this" is the claim you are going to have trouble with. Not only "who the hell do you think you are?" Aspect of it vut also "Huh. Looks too good to be true, good chance this is Tzeech fucking with us, better safe than sorry".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not hands on experience, more lots of reading about history. The difference between a random farmhorse or even modern breeds and full on warhorses is massive. Warhorses are bred specifically for that purpose and its takes a while to get to the point where you get to call it that. A while here being something around 400 years (dont quote me on that). Breeding is not just for physical attributes but also for things like temperament. And they are of course bred for a purpose. A medival Warhorse carrying a knight needs different traits then a nomad horse archers mount or one on 18th century battlefields.
All throughout history horses of good stock are a valuable commodity because not just everyone has a history of horsebreeding and the accompanying breeding knowledge and of course horses. Think of Rome and its famous cavalry (/s). They regularly bought horses from the "barbarians" living in steppe land/persia/you get the gist just to have some.



Something I was wondering about that hasnt even entered the discussion yet about involving Ostermark forces is pride and appearance. Same reason the belts wont likely be well received. I dont think we have met the Tzar himself yet and I dont remember anything about him exept a nebulous decent general, bad administrator, but it could very well "make Kislev seem weak" in his eyes for needing help with some "internal matter" or something like that. Could also turn into thanking the empire for for once helping out here where its needed or what else, but, well, I dont have the best impression of him (for now?)

I think Ice Witches are the most useful direct combat multiplier and get us a few more spellcasters if the highly magic forest spirits have something special cooked up for us in the obvious trap on their home turf.
I'm not against finding the boyar over the other options on the offchance we get to know something actionable if hes knows something and we get to know it.

[x] Bring in Ice Witches
[x] Find the Boyar
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top