I would argue that whether the lord of the rings is dark depends on if you have read the Silmarilion, no world in which Eru and the Valar exists would allow the ultimate victory of Sauron. But if you just read the Lord of the Rings where the only references to the Valar are a song in the House of Elrond, Galadriel singing in elvish and a mention of the Hunter with the ride of the Rohirim then yeah it is very much Dark.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I would argue that whether the lord of the rings is dark depends on if you have read the Silmarilion, no world in which Eru and the Valar exists would allow the ultimate victory of Sauron. But if you just read the Lord of the Rings where the only references to the Valar are a song in the House of Elrond, Galadriel singing in elvish and a mention of the Hunter with the ride of the Rohirim then yeah it is very much Dark.
- Location
- Utrecht
It's also Grim, If you're Melkor or Sauron
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This is a difficult requirement.
- Location
- Germany
But that's back to Grimdark.It's also Grim, If you're Melkor or Sauron
Nothing you do can change your inevitable defeat.
- Location
- Oregon
There's a third party involved intentionally manipulating events to cause a war between Kislev and Drycha? He's got a magical dohickey that Drycha needs to stop an outbreak of chaos? He's got a bag of Acorns of Ages that we can just toss at her and say 'here's your stolen shit, fuck off.'?
We have prepared well enough for battle. We can always do better, but I'm feeling ok about the prep. Now we can explore ways to AVOID the battle, and I'm sure as hell not sending Mathilde into the forest without knowing what's up.
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But not necessarily all that Dark.It's also Grim, If you're Melkor or Sauron
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I&t=43s
We can't avoid the battle—Drycha has invaded sovereign Kislev territory and murdered innocent Kislev citizens. The Tsar has a moral and legal duty to use force of arms to drive them from his peoples land. We can't just turn to him and say "call off the war, she had a good reason to kill your people". And if the Boyar does have a magical whatever, then he should give it to his Liege, not to a foreign invader.
I've said this so many times now, not just on this vote, but about the Eonir as well—there is no justification, no "good reason", no excuse that allows elves to indiscriminately murder human peasants, and I'm sick and tired of the thread constantly forgiving the elves for it and giving humans shit for it when they dare to protest against their "betters".
If Drycha wanted a "magical dohickey", or the return of an acorn, or whatever, then everything she's done—the veil hiding her presence, the besieging of the villages, the murders in the beds—is absolutely wrong and can not be ignored or forgiven. Kislev must drive this menace from their borders.
Look, this is what Drycha has been doing to the villagers of the Shirokij:
Drycha has made her intentions known—she is an enemy of Kislev. Not an ally, not a misguided force for justice, not an emissary seeking the return of a lost relic. She is a monster, and she is the one who started this war.
And if she does have demands, if she does desire something in the Boyars keeping, and the Tsar gives it to her—what sort of message does that send? "We negotiate with terrorists"—and now suddenly all the towns and villages near the wastes will start to wonder "When the raiders come, will the Tsar send soldiers to protect us—or will he sell us out?"
One small note here, if this is Drycha there are no elves in that army, she would kill them on sight. That is part of the reason why I do not think diplomacy is in the cards. I am not going to get into the rights and wrongs of the Eonir killing human settlers on their land since it is not relevant but this is most certainly not Athel Loren's land.
I've said this so many times now, not just on this vote, but about the [Literally any political issue ever] as well—there is no justification, no "good reason", no excuse that allows [One group of people] to indiscriminately murder [Other group of people], and I'm sick and tired of the thread constantly forgiving [One group of people] for it and giving [Other group of people] shit for it when they dare to protest against their "betters".
FTFY
True, I've been using "wood elf" and "forest spirit" pretty interchangeably for the past few votes, even though you're right in that there wouldn't be any elves in Drycha's warhost. I should try to be more consistent with my terminology.
In my headcanon Bretonnian warhorses are what we imagine medieval warhorses to be, enormous beasts the size of shire horses that can gallop like a race horse while wearing full boarding and carrying a 6'6" knight in full plate. In return, they cost an absolute fortune to keep, needing to be fed harvested grain as they'd waste away if left to eat grass. Unless you're blessed enough to be a Questing Knight, as which point such petty concerns about logistics for your steed starting fading away beneath the strength of your narrative.
Kislevian horses, by contrast, are like the archaeological evidence suggests medieval warhorses actually were, scarcely larger than modern looked by capable of being kept on hay and forage, but with much greater endurance, and able to be fielded by entire populations rather than one knight supported by a hundred peasants.
Kislevian horses, by contrast, are like the archaeological evidence suggests medieval warhorses actually were, scarcely larger than modern looked by capable of being kept on hay and forage, but with much greater endurance, and able to be fielded by entire populations rather than one knight supported by a hundred peasants.
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This is probably an abstraction to not lock out a portion of the roster from Drycha in the video game, but Drycha can recruit Wood Elves in Total Warhammer, it's just that they're all "Glamoured". It makes the Elves weaker and of course, Expendable, but it lets her use them. The description of the ability states that the Elves think they're fighting for Ariel, but they're actually under a powerful illusion/charm.
I'm pretty sure this has never been mentioend in the main army books, but it could be a possibility. Probably not highly likely.
I'm pretty sure this has never been mentioend in the main army books, but it could be a possibility. Probably not highly likely.
Note that this is a forest spirit army, there were probably forest spirits in these lands since the Coming of Chaos, well before any humans turned up. It's quite possible for humans to be the aggressors here and that Drycha is here because the local spirits have called her for aid to defend themselves against or avenge a human attack.
Once the trees can start being people too a village that chops wood for firewood and charcoal so they don't freeze in the Kislevian winter can be the [One group of people].
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Are these spirits able to make pacts? Form and keep alliances? What is and isn't a legitimate state is not defined by abstract morality, but by what other states say is true. All the lands around Kislev recognize this as Kislev land, no one but Athel Loren would recognize this as fey land... so the trees get to burn even if they were here first. I mean the beastmen were here just as long and you do not see much argument that we should just cede all the forests to the Children of Chaos
- Location
- Finland
I mean, it is theoretically possible that this is a liberator army come to free their leafy brethren.
But i think the odds of that are somewhat low.
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Like the whole issue with Drycha seems to have come from an alliance gone bad.
But i think the odds of that are somewhat low.
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Almost certainly yes.
Like the whole issue with Drycha seems to have come from an alliance gone bad.
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Ah, should have been more clear, do they have an alliance with anyone who would grant them claim on the land? International politics, which is what ownership comes down to in this instance, is a matter of consensus among one's peers.
- Location
- Oregon
Mathilde is not here to right wrongs or anything. Mathilde is here to solve problems. Kislev WILL get their revenge, eventually, but MATHILDE'S priority is ensuring that the war doesn't cause more problems than it solves. If we were playing a Bright Wizard I'd go hey sure let's burn the entire fucking forest down, but we're playing a Grey Wizard. Info and creative problem solving is Our Thing.
- Location
- Finland
Almost certainly not because we don't even know these very hypothetical forest spirits exist.
And yes, people unable to force others to recognice their claim where they live often get pushed out or murdered.
I'm not sure about your point.
while I completely agree with the sentiment, I've had this argument with people and Warhammer dwarfs wayyyy to much. and that argument does smell of straw bait.
but this is not a chan, make an argument or just leave it
don't post stuff like this.
Er... I think her priority is to get favors out of Kislev (that is why we voted for Opportune not Idealistic), which can be done best by aiding Kislev in the war if wants to fight.
My point is that is how international politics works, especially in the context of the age we are in. Expecting it to work any other way would be like complaining we do not have Star Trek Replicators. Thus a concern over the land rights of people with no treaties to back them up would I think be wholly alien to Mathilde. We are not playing a modern person inserted into Warhammer Fantasy
Lets be honest, the forest spirits have pre-existing claim in the forest, but what they do not have is the ability to keep it. And I don't mean from humans, there is a reason why every single forest in the Old World that isn't the home of elves or stubbornly held onto by humans is full of some manner of murderous monstrosity instead, and the reason is that the forest spirits just can't keep Beastmen and other such beings out.
So yes, humans or elves are not in fact the original owners of the forests, but the original owners hadn't actually owned the forest since long before they arrived to take it. And even if this forest was handed back over they would not be able to keep it.
So yes, humans or elves are not in fact the original owners of the forests, but the original owners hadn't actually owned the forest since long before they arrived to take it. And even if this forest was handed back over they would not be able to keep it.
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