- Location
- Australia
The single strongest theme in GW's writing is that everyone except Karl Franz is stupid. This is a theme even stronger than that things are somehow always in a slow decline from some millennia-gone golden age.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Utrecht
Ungrim Ironfist after that event: TIL that Ogres are Cannibals.
- Location
- France
Slowly seeing this thread go from "quest about a sneaky Wizard with a greatsword" to "just a Warhammer Wiki Let's Read" is just sad. Every so often I see that there have been a pile of posts, so I check them all in the hope it's BoneyM giving another WoG post or putting things back on topic... But no, it's always another wiki summary or video game news update about things that are less and less relevant to this quest.
False hope
False hope
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Warhammer Wiki Let's Read is an incredibly reductive way to summarise my posts if I'm going to be honest. I'm reading the actual books, not the wiki, and trying to distill the information in a way that would be interesting for thread readers because there is absolutely no discussion whatsoever going on. I specifically asked Boney in DMs if it was fine for me to continue making these posts, and he gave me the go ahead because he said he enjoyed seeing the thread being so active during the gaps between updates.Slowly seeing this thread go from "quest about a sneaky Wizard with a greatsword" to "just a Warhammer Wiki Let's Read" is just sad. Every so often I see that there have been a pile of posts, so I check them all in the hope it's BoneyM giving another WoG post or putting things back on topic... But no, it's always another wiki summary or video game news update about things that are less and less relevant to this quest.
False hope
I used to be very invested in "keeping the thread on track" too, but at a certain point there is nothing to be talked about quest wise between updates aside from endless speculation, so I try to bring something else that the thread can have fun chewing on, and maybe Boney can even chime in, which he has on occasion.
If it bothers you so much, then I'll stop posting.
- Location
- Utrecht
Some other people enjoy your posts, so don't let it one comment you off. If you want to continue, please do so.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
if you want to, you can just enable "receive OP notifications" on your thread watch settings.Slowly seeing this thread go from "quest about a sneaky Wizard with a greatsword" to "just a Warhammer Wiki Let's Read" is just sad. Every so often I see that there have been a pile of posts, so I check them all in the hope it's BoneyM giving another WoG post or putting things back on topic... But no, it's always another wiki summary or video game news update about things that are less and less relevant to this quest.
False hope
Then you really will just get a notification when Boney makes a substantial post.
- Location
- Utrecht
I just call @Codex posts "living up to her username"
There are people use the other settings? TIL, I guess
- Location
- France
It's Boney's thread, so if Boney's okayed it then I'll shut up about it. I didn't mean to shove you off the thread either or anything. I'd just prefer if this thread either kept speculating about Divided Loyalties, or went dormant until the quest returned. But if Boney likes reading your posts, go wild! In any case I'll probably get an OP alert when the next big QM answer post drops (assuming I'm not being specifically quoted and told to stop bullying you
).In any case, you'll always be more on-topic than the Cathay video game updates
It's the one place in the setting where this quest definitely isn't going!
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Boney said he didn't want to worldbuild Cathay back when there was barely anything on it. I wouldn't make any definitive statements on never getting anything from it in the quest. It depends on what Boney wants to do, but Dragomas literally made his entire career off the back of Cathay, so I imagine that even if we don't go there it'll play a part in the quest.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I seriously doubt that. Boney doesn't want to flesh out areas that are not pertinent to the quest, so if we never go there, it will remain a non-factor.
Much like the Slann, or Malekith, or other assorted stuff. I also strenuously object to Warhammer III being that info rich. The collated blurbs barely tell us more about Cathay than we know of Estalia, which is fuck-all frankly.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Rude dude. Also kinda dumb. A Boney chapter has 1k+ words pretty much always. If you look at the alert you'll always see if it's that or not.Slowly seeing this thread go from "quest about a sneaky Wizard with a greatsword" to "just a Warhammer Wiki Let's Read" is just sad. Every so often I see that there have been a pile of posts, so I check them all in the hope it's BoneyM giving another WoG post or putting things back on topic... But no, it's always another wiki summary or video game news update about things that are less and less relevant to this quest.
False hope
Please don't. You're a great source of WH lore across editions, personal commentary included.
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I think it's natural for posting to get more general and less quest focused as the time from the last update increases. It has now been almost three weeks from the last update, and anyone who had anything of substance to say probably already said it. So the thread is either going to go silent or go off topic, and if Boney doesn't mind the latter I don't see the problem. At least the dicussion is WH related, which does have some relation to the quest, and not completely unrelated to anything like the geometry discourse that used to plague BAHHSQ, god rest its soul.
I will say that I think it's important not to let off topic discussion overwhelm quest discussion from posters who've only now gotten around to reading the last update. @bookwyrm made a post 3 pages ago about Ranald's daughters that mostly got ignored, and while it's possible that no one had anything to say, I do worry that posts like that can get lost amid the deulge of book summary posts and such. On the other hand, thread engagement is naturally low right now, which might explain the lack of replies on its own. Still, something to keep in mind.
I will say that I think it's important not to let off topic discussion overwhelm quest discussion from posters who've only now gotten around to reading the last update. @bookwyrm made a post 3 pages ago about Ranald's daughters that mostly got ignored, and while it's possible that no one had anything to say, I do worry that posts like that can get lost amid the deulge of book summary posts and such. On the other hand, thread engagement is naturally low right now, which might explain the lack of replies on its own. Still, something to keep in mind.
Voikirium
SV's Estalia Guy
- Location
- Ruritania Illinois
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I can assure you, with some certainty:
We know considerably more about Cathay, now.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think I broke the 50 WHF book mark at this point, and I believe this is all I know of Estalia:
- It's a Spain knockoff
- Myrmidian area, tense rivalry with Tilea, arguments over whether Estalia or Tilea are the true inheritors of Myrmidia's legacy. Magritta is the centre of Myrmidian worship, contesting Remas in Tilea. Lots of arguments over whether the centre of the cult should be Remas or Magritta, and the current Myrmidian High Priestess deciding to stay in Magritta caused a huge fuss.
- Fractured Kingdoms that are not united form Estalia, which tend to bicker with each other. Most major is Bilbali in the northern coast bordering Carcassonne in Bretonnia and Magritta to the south close to Tobaro.
- Southern Estalia actually has a decent relationship with Tobaro thanks to overland trade routes between the two.
- Estalia has Elven ruins like Tilea. Balthasar Gelt got his Amulet of Sea Gold from the place.
- They have some of the best human metalsmiths in the Old World, and Estalian steel is highly praised.
- Heavy dueling tradition producing the Estalian Diestros, who tend to travel the world to test themselves because there isn't much to fight in Estalia. Lots of dueling techniques and schools focused on dismounted swordplay and fencing with sabres and foils and stuff. Bilbali's Diestros cross over to Carcassonne every now and then in search of a challenge.
- Strong trading presence, Magritta was invaded by Jafar causing the Crusades. Knights of Magritta, a Myrmidian order, got incredibly hyped to take revenge and continued hunting down Arabyans even after the Crusades ended, interfering with trade and getting them kicked out. The Knights of Magritta decided to spread across the globe as mercenaries and disguised their operations in the Aquila Academies of Carcasonne, Luccini and Nuln, biding their time for when they can march on another crusade to Araby. Or so they claim, but each faction head has their own agenda and they really use the crusade as a conversation starter at this point.
- A Necrarch called Nourgul started the Blood Wars in Estalia over the tome called the Book of Wisdom in a Myrmidian Temple, which was brutal and significant. Died in a temple to Myrmidia through unknown means before he could get the book, implications the Lahmians had a hand in the whole incident.
bookwyrm
Doom of Public Libraries
- Location
- Wichita, Kansas
Oh! Speaking of, @mathymancer sorry for not getting back to you on your summary- it all looks good!
The only thing that I'd add is just maybe explaining Lucan's and Luccina's Shallyan and Ranaldian connections better than I did; I was thinking of Ranald as like how the Middenland Hedgefolk worship Ranald as the Prince of Cats who patronizes their Hedgecraft and how some legends have Ranald discovering the first crack opening Chaos into the world with Ulric and how he fled into the "Place Between" to escape and hey a vision-granting ocular cave with a magic literally two-faced she-leopard sounds right up his alley. As for Shallya I was thinking about her tears being Ranald's means of becoming immortal in many of his origins and how her High Temple in Couronne has a sacred spring with magic curative waters named after her. Shallya as the goddess of healing definitely has a connection to like special mineral springs and unpolluted freshwater and combined with her commandments to fight Nurgle and all his touch I think that can easily flow into like the public health of the city with divine favor over Roman style aqueducts and baths and plumbing and thus the shared communal water at the city's metaphorical heart between the mountains and the sea.
The only thing that I'd add is just maybe explaining Lucan's and Luccina's Shallyan and Ranaldian connections better than I did; I was thinking of Ranald as like how the Middenland Hedgefolk worship Ranald as the Prince of Cats who patronizes their Hedgecraft and how some legends have Ranald discovering the first crack opening Chaos into the world with Ulric and how he fled into the "Place Between" to escape and hey a vision-granting ocular cave with a magic literally two-faced she-leopard sounds right up his alley. As for Shallya I was thinking about her tears being Ranald's means of becoming immortal in many of his origins and how her High Temple in Couronne has a sacred spring with magic curative waters named after her. Shallya as the goddess of healing definitely has a connection to like special mineral springs and unpolluted freshwater and combined with her commandments to fight Nurgle and all his touch I think that can easily flow into like the public health of the city with divine favor over Roman style aqueducts and baths and plumbing and thus the shared communal water at the city's metaphorical heart between the mountains and the sea.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Was this anywhere? I tried to find it awhile back and couldn't.
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Fair enough, but I find it kind of difficult to summarize this into a bullet point. I'll just throw in a link to that post, as I did with a few other arguments, unless you have a better idea.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Truthfully I am still wondering Waagh counts as dvine print? Because it is only one third divine and I want to capture a bit to use as teaching aid as Mathilde hoped to do in Waagh and Peace lectures.
I mean imagine if Empire always has magical surpremecy against the Orks. Where not just magister and up but every journeymen and perhaps even every annointed priest knows how to counterspell Ork magic.
I want to give a bit of Waagh to Runelords alongside the seviroscope. Who knows what those crazy bastards will do. (c'mon anti-waagh anvil runes)
I hope Waagh is strange enough that we are allowed to print them. I mean one third gets rounded down in math eh?
I mean imagine if Empire always has magical surpremecy against the Orks. Where not just magister and up but every journeymen and perhaps even every annointed priest knows how to counterspell Ork magic.
I want to give a bit of Waagh to Runelords alongside the seviroscope. Who knows what those crazy bastards will do. (c'mon anti-waagh anvil runes)
I hope Waagh is strange enough that we are allowed to print them. I mean one third gets rounded down in math eh?
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I went on a quick search and the most I'm getting is extensive treaties on Estalian dueling styles. I swear, half the wordcount of any Estalian section is about the techniques of swordplay and the other half is about Myrmidia.
This might be a Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism thing, I believe in there Estalian steel is famous. It might have entered the conciousness of the SV hivemind at that point, and I picked it up when I read the quest. Or it might have been an actual thing but I can't find it with a quick search.
Well, we can probably remove Estalian steel, but something I forgot to mention, mostly because it was an inference, is that Estalia seems to have some sort of affinity with poison? The Estalian Blood Oak is a type of tree that is extracted to produce an addictive stimulant drug called Crimson Shade, and according to Old World Armory Estalian women use Belladonna (Deadly Nightshade) as a cosmetic, since a single drop makes the pupils dilate. Also, the first discovery of Ruby Sulphur Extract (Arsenic) being used as a poison was when the Estalian government discovered a poisoning done by it.
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NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Estalian steel seems fairly likely to be good if they're a Spain expy, steel from Toledo was pretty famous so I could see GW adding a nod to that.
Like Toledo steel is actually a decently well known term and was known for being very hard.
It goes all the way back to pre-roman times in the area irl.
Like Toledo steel is actually a decently well known term and was known for being very hard.
It goes all the way back to pre-roman times in the area irl.
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
It's not just a DoDA thing. You can find an unsourced claim saying Estalian steel is famous across the Old World on the wiki, and it's been there since 2011. Doesn't mean it's accurate, but it does mean it predates DoDA.
I don't at all mind the conversation drifting when it's been a while since an update. This quest has been some peoples' point of entry into the setting, and it's been very gratifying to see them explore it further.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
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- She/Her
I just finished 6th Edition Tomb Kings and it was honestly highly informative. It contained a lot of details that wasn't in 8th Edition Tomb Kings and it was neat to see the development of the Tomb Kings with time. For example, the way that Nehekharan magic worked was completely different, but that's just how 6th Edition was. 8th Edition standardised all magic to follow a single uniform system for simplicity and likely for balance, but 6th Edition had all kinds of unique magic systems for stuff like Nehekhara and the Ogre's Gut Magic.
It also created an odd scenario. Tomb Kings technically aren't supposed to cast spells, only the Liche Priests do that (Settra is an exception for obvious reasons and Karitamen explicitly broke the rules to do that, so did Nagash), yet "My Will Be Done" let them cast one of two incantations every turn. Also, it's very surprising looking at 6th Edition Settra vs 8th Edition Settra, in that they seriously nerfed his magic power. In 8th Edition he's a Level 1 Wizard, but in 6th Edition he's the strongest Caster of the Lore of Nehekhara, stronger than the average High Priest (Khatep wasn't playable to be fair). The downside is that he took 2 Lord slots and wouldn't allow you to field any other Liche Priests because he hated them.
Another weird thing is that in 2nd Edition WFRP Night's Dark Masters, which was published after 6th Edition, it says that Neferata resorted to learning Necromancy from W'Soran because Nehekharan society didn't allow women to practice magic and become Liche Priests. Yet there's an Arcane Item in 6th Edition called Neferra's Plaques of Mighty Incantations that was made by the High Priestess to King Khutef (one of the Kings of Khemri) called Neferra. I suppose that can be solved with the assumption that Lahmia in particular was sexist, because it was Neferata's father who laughed at her when she said she wanted to be a Wizard.
Anyway, final note:
I assume whatever this ruined musuem is, it was probably trashed because it was displaying something Tomb King related. It's almost comical how people never learn the crucial lesson of not messing with the Tomb King's stuff.
@Boney If you pulled the ruined museum from some source, mind telling me what it is? Or is that an original thing?
It also created an odd scenario. Tomb Kings technically aren't supposed to cast spells, only the Liche Priests do that (Settra is an exception for obvious reasons and Karitamen explicitly broke the rules to do that, so did Nagash), yet "My Will Be Done" let them cast one of two incantations every turn. Also, it's very surprising looking at 6th Edition Settra vs 8th Edition Settra, in that they seriously nerfed his magic power. In 8th Edition he's a Level 1 Wizard, but in 6th Edition he's the strongest Caster of the Lore of Nehekhara, stronger than the average High Priest (Khatep wasn't playable to be fair). The downside is that he took 2 Lord slots and wouldn't allow you to field any other Liche Priests because he hated them.
Another weird thing is that in 2nd Edition WFRP Night's Dark Masters, which was published after 6th Edition, it says that Neferata resorted to learning Necromancy from W'Soran because Nehekharan society didn't allow women to practice magic and become Liche Priests. Yet there's an Arcane Item in 6th Edition called Neferra's Plaques of Mighty Incantations that was made by the High Priestess to King Khutef (one of the Kings of Khemri) called Neferra. I suppose that can be solved with the assumption that Lahmia in particular was sexist, because it was Neferata's father who laughed at her when she said she wanted to be a Wizard.
Anyway, final note:
I've been wondering for a while what ruined musuem Mathilde was referring to here. 6th Edition Tomb Kings mentions the Magnus Museum in Altdorf, which in 2499 decides to stupidly display the sarcophagus of a 5 year old Tomb King named Kaspeh. Tome of Salvation mentions an "Imperial Museum in Altdorf" which displays the Obernarn Stone, which Horstmann clarifies is in the Collegium Historica in the University of Altdorf.
I assume whatever this ruined musuem is, it was probably trashed because it was displaying something Tomb King related. It's almost comical how people never learn the crucial lesson of not messing with the Tomb King's stuff.
@Boney If you pulled the ruined museum from some source, mind telling me what it is? Or is that an original thing?
I believe it was this one:
1248 -- Count Otto von Luitpold's prized antiquity collection is unsealed and put on display in the Altdorf museum, including the priceless Golden Death Mask of Kharnut. Sensing the presence of the ancient artefact, a dozen Tomb Kings awaken from their slumber and together they lead their combined armies into the heart of the Empire to retrieve it.
- Location
- Utrecht
Kind of a pity. I loved that system.
Did they also remove the rule where you had to have both a General and a Hierophant?
We removed that rule in our quick matches (500 pts) because it limited the options too much. There's only so many combinations of Liche + Prince + 2 core units + 1 special you can make. And forget putting some nice items on your priests.