Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
BoneyM said:
I don't think it actually encourages that behaviour, it just codifies it. I've seen the same thing happen in many other quests, where each new contact is measured by the type of shinies they can be befriended in the hopes of receiving. The main difference in the favour system is that it culminates not in the QM having to decide whether to give the shiny the thread has been talking about throughout that entire plotline or not, instead the decision is placed in the hands of the thread and they have to decide exactly how much that shiny is worth to them when measured against everything else that could be acquired for those favours.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And it's not that unrealistic. That's how people behave in a business/professional enviroment. It's a different question with friends and family. If Anton or Regimand asked for help, we'd go help them even if we wouldn't get any favors.
 
Horium said:
Let's put it like this, Stirland is where vast majority of her friends live, it is where she grew into the person she is now, it is where she was the second most powerful person in the region for at least a couple of years, it is where her material holdings are and oh yes, to top it off, she is a Dame of Stirland, whose duty is to aid Stirland.

Lots of ties that bind.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Two friends. Because the other two died horrible deaths where she couldn't help them. And Mathilde while she gets along with Wilhemina- I'm not sure how personal it is for her, we don't have the same closeness and understanding of one another that we have with Anton or did with Marcus and Van Hal. Other than that it's the priest of Ranald house sitting for her. And would sitting in the basement reminiscing about how much more powerful you used to be here and how much more you could do to help be in any way a positive association by this point? Would being reminded of what circumstance took from you make any place more of a home? You throw out things without context, friends without names, places without ties to people. Like 'material holdings'- they're tools, shit farming and shepherding. Her presence for neither is required and she's already done well by the people bound to her lands nor would her presence necessarily better them. Do we know any Gong farmer by name? Can anyone of us voters know the actual location of our fief and noteworthy people therein off the top of our head?

And as a Dame of Stirland- she has a duty to answer when her Elector calls. No more no less, she is not some super hero obligated to serve and protect and be on call at any occasion. If this is the best argument that can be made about the homeliness of Stirland, you've only cemented my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Alratan said:
According to Children of the Horned Rat, Dwarven Rangers have learned that covering yourself with either skaven dung or pig's blood blocks the ability of skaven to scent you out. It's how Dwarf Rangers can sneak up on skaven without being sniffed out when they get within a few paces. That would block the manscent. Skaven excrement would be ubiquitous in a skaven warren, and it wouldn't be unusual for a skaven there to stink of it. When orcs and their boars are around, pig's blood wouldn't be unknown either. Mathilde gets on well with a veteran Ranger, so he's an obvious person to ask about this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The skaven do believe the very strange fellow skaven who covers themselves in excrement belongs in the warring. They just think he's really, really, really, really weird.
Horium said:
Let's put it like this, Stirland is where vast majority of her friends live, it is where she grew into the person she is now, it is where she was the second most powerful person in the region for at least a couple of years, it is where her material holdings are and oh yes, to top it off, she is a Dame of Stirland, whose duty is to aid Stirland.

Lots of ties that bind.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And it's entirely possible that the new van Hal is running the place into the ground. And the only way we can find out the truth about that is to return.
 
BoneyM said:
I don't think it actually encourages that behaviour, it just codifies it. I've seen the same thing happen in many other quests, where each new contact is measured by the type of shinies they can be befriended in the hopes of receiving. The main difference in the favour system is that it culminates not in the QM having to decide whether to give the shiny the thread has been talking about throughout that entire plotline or not, instead the decision is placed in the hands of the thread and they have to decide exactly how much that shiny is worth to them when measured against everything else that could be acquired for those favours.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
While I agree that shiny chasing always exists in threads, I don't think I can agree that the favor system hasn't made it actively more prominent.

But if you have been finding it helpful in running the story overall, then I'll take it as a necessary evil.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
While I agree that shiny chasing always exists in threads, I don't think I can agree that the favor system hasn't made it actively more prominent.

But if you have been finding it helpful in running the story overall, then I'll take it as a necessary evil.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Frankly I'm actually amazed at people's restraint. Between Night Prowler, our Dhar eating Belt, Great Sword focus, and general infiltration capabilities I expected the thread to be plotting how to steal the Fell Blade already.

Now that, would be a fun thing to lie about possessing about.

Guile said:
And it's entirely possible that the new van Hal is running the place into the ground. And the only way we can find out the truth about that is to return.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's just egotistical. She's young, she's heavily influenced by the Witch Hunters- but none of that means she's incompetent or that Stirland is in need of Mathilde to save it from the mean lady who can't bring herself to recognize our awesomeness. Stirland has survived millenia with garbage electors, one possibily mediocre one is not some threat that Mathilde needs to avert. In fact, that whole train of logic seems dangerously political for someone who's basically to be kept away from any and all political power unless absolutely necessary. If we start mucking about in the governance of Stirland without damn good reason, the Grey Order would be in the right to censure us.

So please, tell me what we could possibly do in the event this Elector Countess is as you say? What authority do we have to try and work around her like that?
 
Last edited:
Guile said:
And it's entirely possible that the new van Hal is running the place into the ground. And the only way we can find out the truth about that is to return.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Even if she is, what can we do, except exist judgingly in her general direction? She might be digging her own grave (Although she's only had maybe a half-turn or so for it? Do I recall that correctly?), but her first act was to ask us to go away, and I can't imagine everybody else leaving her for that inclined her to ask us to come back.
 
chocolote12 said:
Even if she is, what can we do, except exist judgingly in her general direction? She might be digging her own grave (Although she's only had maybe a half-turn or so for it? Do I recall that correctly?), but her first act was to ask us to go away, and I can't imagine everybody else leaving her for that inclined her to ask us to come back.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I want to say it's been a year and a half? Maybe two?
Edit: well, there you go.
 
Karugus said:
That's just egotistical. She's young, she's heavily influenced by the Witch Hunters- but none of that means she's incompetent or that Stirland is in need of Mathilde to save it from the mean lady who can't bring herself to recognize our awesomeness. Stirland has survived millenia with garbage electors, one possibily mediocre one is not some threat that Mathilde needs to avert. In fact, that whole train of logic seems dangerously political for someone who's basically to be kept away from any and all political power unless absolutely necessary. If we start mucking about in the governance of Stirland without damn good reason, the Grey Order would be in the right to censure us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's the fact that ten thousand of her militia decided they'd rather seek their fortunes in the dwarflands than stay in her employ. I think that's most of the able-bodied men at her command.

I wasn't suggesting we depose her and install ourselves or anything, I mean keep an eye on the old stomping grounds in case bad shit is going down.
So please, tell me what we could possibly do in the event this Elector Countess is as you say? What authority do we have to try and work around her like that?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"I'm a Grey Wizard and I think bad stuff is happening, let me go nose around for a while and see what I can turn up"
chocolote12 said:
Even if she is, what can we do, except exist judgingly in her general direction? She might be digging her own grave (Although she's only had maybe a half-turn or so for it? Do I recall that correctly?), but her first act was to ask us to go away, and I can't imagine everybody else leaving her for that inclined her to ask us to come back.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yesss... 'ask', right... I was definitely going to wait for her to ask and not just... show back up and start doing good deeds while being completely impossible to dislodge or find. Maybe build a wizard academy cadet branch out in the hills.
 
Karugus said:
Frankly I'm actually amazed at people's restraint. Between Night Prowler, our Dhar eating Belt, Great Sword focus, and general infiltration capabilities I expected the thread to be plotting how to steal the Fell Blade already.

Now that, would be a fun thing to lie about possessing about.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
*opens mouth*

*closes it*

...huh.

Ok, while being able to wield a blade only surpassed by maybe god-weapons in a pinch would be cool, I imagine that while our belt may make us safe from the Warpstone aspect, the inscriptions and spells of death are something else.
 
Karugus said:
And as a Dame of Stirland- she has a duty to answer when her Elector calls. No more no less, she is not some super hero obligated to serve and protect and be on call at any occasion. If this is the best argument that can be made about the homeliness of Stirland, you've only cemented my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Amusingly and somewhat ominously, Mathilde may technically not be sworn to Roswita. See, this was her vow of knighthood:
"Mathilde Weber," Van Hal intones, "you have been deemed fit for this high estate. Do you now swear, by Sigmar and all the Gods of the Empire, that you will honour and defend the Empire of Man?"

"This day do I render homage and fealty to my Lord, the Elector Count Abelhelm Van Hal of Stirland, who will, from this day forward, be my Liege. I will remain true in all ways, serving him faithfully - this do I swear, by my life and by my Gods. So say I, Mathilde Weber."

"I accept your homage and fealty, and pledge to you that from this day forward until the end of my reign, you are my Liegewoman, and that I will honour and defend your rights as a Knight." You brace yourself, knowing what's coming next. "Let this be the last blow you receive unanswered." And with that, he delivers a heavy blow to your face that near sends you sprawling and marks the culmination of the ceremony.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Notice the conspicuous lack of swearing herself to either the office of the Elector Count, rather than the person occupying it, or any use of the word "heirs" when referring to the person of Abelhelm. Recall also that on the short list of must-dos that Elector Counts do upon being given their position is call up all their nobles and have them renew their oaths of fealty.

Roswita sure as hell didn't call up Mathilde for that because she wants Mathilde to stay several hundred miles away from her, not show up to hold a polite conversation and solemn reaffirmation of allegiance. By missing this, not only did Mathilde not officially give Roswita her loyalty in any capacity other than that of the advisory post which she was dismissed from, Roswita left herself open to deny Mathilde all of the things that Abelhelm promised to do "from this day forward until the end of my reign".

Sounds ridiculous that this might mean Mathilde doesn't actually owe the Elector Count of Stirland service as a knight, or that Roswita has actually legally cut her loose and will prove unwilling to defend her rights as a Knight if the matter actually comes up, right? But this kind of legal minutiae matters, in Warhammer just as it did in the real world during the analagous time period. This is exactly the sort of thing that, say, leaves people in Flensburg not paying anyone taxes... or leaves the once-unbreakable loyalty between Mathilde Weber and the position of Elector Count of Stirland so fragile that either side can ignore it and have a reasonable legal stance that it doesn't even exist.
 
Last edited:
DarkLight140 said:
Amusingly and somewhat ominously, Mathilde may technically not be sworn to Roswita. See, this was her vow of knighthood:
Notice the conspicuous lack of swearing herself to either the office of the Elector Count, rather than the person occupying it, or any use of the word "heirs" when referring to the person of Abelhelm. Recall also that on the short list of must-dos that Elector Counts do upon being given their position is call up all their nobles and have them renew their oaths of fealty.

Roswita sure as hell didn't call up Mathilde for that because she wants Mathilde to stay several hundred miles away from her, not show up to hold a polite conversation and solemn reaffirmation of allegiance. By missing this, not only did Mathilde not officially give Roswita her loyalty in any capacity other than that of the advisory post which she was dismissed from, Roswita left herself open to deny Mathilde all of the things that Abelhelm promised to do "from this day forward until the end of my reign".

Sounds ridiculous that this might mean Mathilde doesn't actually owe the Elector Count of Stirland service as a knight, or that Roswita has actually legally cut her loose and will prove unwilling to defend her rights as a Knight if the matter actually comes up, right? But this kind of legal minutiae matters, in Warhammer just as it did in the real world during the analagous time period. This is exactly the sort of thing that, say, leaves people in Flensburg not paying anyone taxes... or leaves the once-unbreakable loyalty between Mathilde Weber and the position of Elector Count of Stirland so fragile that either side can ignore it and have a reasonable legal stance that it doesn't even exist.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Roswita: "Dame Weber, you come present yourself right now, I know you're here!"
Mathilde, /very faintly, as if from a great distance: "Make me, brat!"
 
Guile said:
There's the fact that ten thousand of her militia decided they'd rather seek their fortunes in the dwarflands than stay in her employ. I think that's most of the able-bodied men at her command.

I wasn't suggesting we depose her and install ourselves or anything, I mean keep an eye on the old stomping grounds in case bad shit is going down.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Golly a bunch of soldiers left after their terms were up and the army was reforming. Clearly, this is just as bad as Nordland and Middenland seemingly razing and sacking each other's villages. The vast majority of the 'Stirland' Complement are mercs and adventurers looking for cash.

Guile said:
"I'm a Grey Wizard and I think bad stuff is happening, let me go nose around for a while and see what I can turn up"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Based off of what? What are we looking for, where are we looking for it, and how are we going to justify the only risks big enough to make this feasible (chaos or necromancy) when the province is riddled with Witch Hunters? Any investigation is a tacit accusation that a massive number of Witch Hunters are compromised or incapable. It's a political shitstorm with the vaguest of pretexts and incredibly evident biases. Mathilde of all people should not be the one investigating the person who fired her for wrongdoing.

DarkLight140 said:
Amusingly, Mathilde may technically not be sworn to Roswita. See, this was her vow of knighthood:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean while yes, neither have reaffirmed their feudal contracts to one another, it's implied- and for all of Mathilde's disproportionate influence and power she's very much petty nobility. So a personal pledge might not have been considered necessary. And even if it hasn't technically been reaffirmed refusing a call to arms would probably be more trouble than it's worth unless we're on serious imperial business.
 
BoneyM said:
Mathilde gets her vengeance on Roswita by marrying off the next generation of Stirlandian nobles to Wizards...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I really want to do this now. Can this please be an action whenever we get back to having actions? We'll file it under PR work or something, and have Wizard Chic work for us for once (given that we'll be coming back from a legendary feat, it might see another resurgence).
 
Any talk of petty vengeance is childish, we should follow the example of our wise master.

Use our rank to show up to fancy parties and our magic to go unnoticed as we raid the hors d'oeuvre.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top