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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Codex said:
The Bleak Hold Fortress and Doom Glades are right next to the Colony to the north, so I doubt they have much of a hold over the area. Sure it's a great place for staging military operations and keeping an eye on Naggaroth, but I'm not sure if they'd have enough presence there for large scale resource extraction.

I think the reason there isn't an Old Worlder presence is there is that Arnheim is a defensive colony, and not one focused on trade and prosperity. Their focus seems to me to be keeping any eye of the Druchii and and stifle their navy, not colonise the continent. The Old Worlders have even less reason to keep an eye on the Dark Elves.
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That's true. In later maps, they populated both the north and south of that region with more and more Dark Elf and Lizardmen stuff respectively... It felt like they really wanted to make those parts of the world homogenized to simplify the setting. By 8th edition, you have stuff like Hexoatl as far north as the Lustrian isthmus.

It's a pity, IMO. Lustria was concieved as a really diverse setting where all the factions could interact in the same way as the Old World, but by the end, it feels like the writers sorta lost interest in it beyond the idea of "Lizardmen Homeland".

edit: Oh, just saw your edit. I didn't know about that - I guess it probably wasn't what they meant in Sold Down the River, then.
 
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opalbucket said:
That's true. In later maps, they populated both the north and south of that region with more and more Dark Elf and Lizardmen stuff respectively... It felt like they really wanted to make those parts of the world homogenized to simplify the setting. By 8th edition, you have stuff like Hexoatl as far north as the Lustrian isthmus.

It's a pity, IMO. Lustria was concieved as a really diverse setting where all the factions could interact in the same way as the Old World, but by the end, it feels like the writers sorta lost interest in it beyond the idea of "Lizardmen Homeland".
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Ah, you might not have seen my edit:
Codex said:
EDIT: Lexicanum says that in the 1700s (source is 4th Edition Dark Elves), Naggaroth's Shades found an underground passage that lead to Arnheim which they've used for constant raids and sieges, putting Arnheim under constant threat. It doesn't sound very nice at the moment.
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Apparently Arnheim was threatened by raids and sieges as far back as 4th Edition, so at least that's not new.

EDIT: Editception. What a conversation.
 
Codex said:
Apparently Arnheim was threatened by raids and sieges as far back as 4th Edition, so at least that's not new.
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Yeah, I just edited my post, lol. I guess that region was probably never meant to be a source of prosperity for the High Elves, and so the lack of colonies by 8th ed is at least internally consistent, considering the expansion of Lizardmen influence and them being rewritten to be much more aggressive overall.

But I still think it's kinda boring. (Well, I say that, but I guess GW was probably justifiably concerned about how faux-colonialism of South America, with the natives being Lizard people, would be read as a worldbuilding component.)
 
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Tasoli said:
There is not point waiting for more books, Boney repeatedly said we need to take Apparation Binding option if we want to get better at it. No other option because it is bottlenecked by it at this point.

Elf books might give us further options later on but at the moment they are useless to us.
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I'm not sure we do know that. We know that we can't take any other actions to make progress on the project at other than trying to capture an apparition, but that doesn't mean that elven (or Arabyan, or chaos dwarf, or even dwarf) books/secrets on the subject wouldn't give us a bonus on the roll associated with that action. Even College books on Apparitions may, if they exist.

Unless Boney has said something to the contrary, of course, but I couldn't find it on a quick search.
 
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Sir_Travelsalot said:
From what I recalled, the only original drawback Neferata's Elixir had was the need to drink blood. Nagash's Curse came along when Nagash, well, cursed the vampires as punishment for bailing on him.
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Yes, being more technical the Blood Thirst was caused from the flaw and the rest of the Weaknesses were from his Curse. I vaguely remember the weakness to sunlight being already a thing before the Curse, though I don't have the energy to track down the source so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Codex said:
Aislinn is a Cothiquan
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He is? I didn't think we knew where he came from.

Codex said:
Sold Down the River says that Lustria was discovered during the 2400s IC, but current canon says that Losteriksson landed on Lustria and made Skeggi on 888 IC. Marco Columbo's first voyage arrived 1492 IC. That's... a gigantic difference. What baffles me is that the Treaty of Amity and Commerce as presented in Sold Down the River extensively mentions products of the New World, and the Treaty was made in 2150 IC, but if Lustria was only "discovered" in 2400 IC, then why the hell is the New World mentioned in the treaty. Was the Treaty updated after 2400 IC? If so, the text doesn't mention it. It implies that the New World stuff was on the very first version of the treaty. Is it talking about Naggaroth? I somehow doubt the High Elves were performing large scale extraction of resources from under the nose of the Dark Elves.
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Possibly the writers then were counting Ulthuan as part of the New World. Be a bit odd, but would explain all the stuff they had to trade, without getting into Lustria. Or the writers just copy pasted a real treaty, used New World as a stand-in and didn't think about the fact the New World hadn't been discovered yet in-universe. It's genuinely amazing how often people will not put together stuff like that until it's too late.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
He is? I didn't think we knew where he came from.
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Hm, I think this is the case of making a deduction from the facts I had, and then fooling myself into thinking its canon. There is such a lack of Cothique characters that I headcanoned Aislinn as one because he fit perfectly, and the lack of information on him prevented me from ever thinking I was wrong.

Yes I can't find confirmation on his home province. I think it's a fair chance it's Cothique, but it doesn't have to be I suppose.
 
Codex said:
Hm, I think this is the case of making a deduction from the facts I had, and then fooling myself into thinking its canon. There is such a lack of Cothique characters that I headcanoned Aislinn as one because he fit perfectly, and the lack of information on him prevented me from ever thinking I was wrong.

Yes I can't find confirmation on his home province. I think it's a fair chance it's Cothique, but it doesn't have to be I suppose.
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Teclis and Tyrion are from Cothique, though that's not a terribly strong association- I think the only source that says it is their trilogy?
 
Mopman43 said:
Teclis and Tyrion are from Cothique, though that's not a terribly strong association- I think the only source that says it is their trilogy?
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This is a Warhammer fact that I constantly forget until someone reminds me because I associate Teclis with Saphery and Tyrion with Avelorn (cus Everqueen). They are Cothiquan, but they don't give me the feeling of "Yvresse" that Eltharion does, the feeling of "Nagarythe" that Alith Anar does, the feeling of "Chrace" that Korhil does, or the feeling of "Caledor" that Imrik does.
 
Like, when I struggled to remember the names of the Elven Kingdoms, I used characters (who are on average more memorable) and the province they represented as an association to help me remember. Imrik/Asarnil for Caledor, Finubar for Eataine/Lothern, Aislinn for Cothique, Eldyra for Tiranoc, Teclis for Saphery, Alarielle for Avelorn, Korhil for Chrace, Alith Anar for Nagarythe, Eltharion for Yvresse. (Accuracy wasn't important, association was).

You will notice a flaw in this system though. No Ellyrion. I needed to learn to remember Ellyrion naturally because I don't know anyone from that place. There's the Ellyrion Reavers, but that's a unit not a character.
 
Codex said:
You will notice a flaw in this system though. No Ellyrion. I needed to learn to remember Ellyrion naturally because I don't know anyone from that place. There's the Ellyrion Reavers, but that's a unit not a character.
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So, first, while the Kingdom is Ellyrion, the unit is Ellyrian. Second, for a character, you could go with Malhandir. Or just any horse. They're basically Rohan, from the LotR films.
 
Boney said:
[ ] It seems Countess Gabriella is content to sit back and watch events unfold. If your suspicions are correct, and you don't mind dabbling in what might be considered heresy, her personal intervention could be a great help.
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Now in hindsight I really wonder what might have happened if we had invited Gabriella for our attack on Drakenhof.

Would she have helped?
Would we have found out she's not a vampire earlier?
Would the whole Empress-storyline have happened?
Could a proper priest of Ranald have turned his pretty high healing-roll into a success and saved Abelhelm?
 
Codex said:
Yes, being more technical the Blood Thirst was caused from the flaw and the rest of the Weaknesses were from his Curse. I vaguely remember the weakness to sunlight being already a thing before the Curse, though I don't have the energy to track down the source so take it with a grain of salt.
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I think the Blood Thirst is more a feature than a flaw, I mean they have to feed on something. According to Manfred the vampires souls grow gold and heavy from being cut off from the sea of souls so they must be revived. It's Dhar, warpstone, or other souls via the medium of blood. I do not think even the original Elixir lacked that 'flaw' since Nagash ate a ton of Warpstone in order to finish his transformation
 
DragonParadox said:
I think the Blood Thirst is more a feature than a flaw, I mean they have to feed on something. According to Manfred the vampires souls grow gold and heavy from being cut off from the sea of souls so they must be revived. It's Dhar, warpstone, or other souls via the medium of blood. I do not think even the original Elixir lacked that 'flaw' since Nagash ate a ton of Warpstone in order to finish his transformation
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He fed on Warpstone because he wanted to, not because he had to. The guy was crazy.
 
Codex said:
He fed on Warpstone because he wanted to, not because he had to. The guy was crazy.
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It is rather hard to judge that seeing as the only witness to the act and his need or lack thereof was Nagash himself. Even if he did give an account (which as far as I can tell he never did) how trustworthy would the word of the insane megalomaniac have been? Him not needing anything and making a perfect elixir sounds like just the kind of lie both Nagash and his sycophants would tell.
 
DragonParadox said:
It is rather hard to judge that seeing as the only witness to the act and his need or lack thereof was Nagash himself. Even if he did give an account (which as far as I can tell he never did) how trustworthy would the word of the insane megalomaniac have been? Him not needing anything and making a perfect elixir sounds like just the kind of lie both Nagash and his sycophants would tell.
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You do realise that Arkhan took the same elixir as Nagash? Do you see him going around eating Warpstone? Feeding on the blood of humans? Maybe you'll say that oh he could just be eating Dhar off screen, but that would be a huge reach. Until we see actual evidence of the original elixir having the same flaw as Neferata's, I'll assume Nagash did it better.
 
Codex said:
You do realise that Arkhan took the same elixir as Nagash? Do you see him going around eating Warpstone? Feeding on the blood of humans? Maybe you'll say that oh he could just be eating Dhar off screen, but that would be a huge reach. Until we see actual evidence of the original elixir having the same flaw as Neferata's, I'll assume Nagash did it better.
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How would we know if Arkham eats warpstone? At least according to the Liber Necris Neferata's elixir was more impressive than the original ('a dark miracle' is how he put it) as it did not require gorging on warpstone and allowed one to keep the semblance and the beauty of life. Of course that is coming from Manfred who is another insane megalomaniac so should be taken with just as much caution
 
DragonParadox said:
How would we know if Arkham eats warpstone? At least according to the Liber Necris Neferata's elixir was more impressive than the original ('a dark miracle' is how he put it) as it did not require gorging on warpstone and allowed one to keep the semblance and the beauty of life. Of course that is coming from Manfred who is another insane megalomaniac so should be taken with just as much caution
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Absence of evidence isn't evidence by itself. What are you trying to argue for? The fact that there is no evidence to prove or disprove your statement means you're right? What kind of argument is that?
 
Codex said:
Absence of evidence isn't evidence by itself. What are you trying to argue for? The fact that there is no evidence to prove or disprove your statement means you're right? What kind of argument is that?
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Absence of evidence also is not evidence of absence, my point it we do not know how good Nefferata's elixir was compared to Nagash because the only people who would know for sure are insane and/or liars. All we know for sure is that Neferata once made an elixir that made all vampires and Nagash once made one that was part of his transformation into a lich as well as Arkham's. All the rest is speculation.
 
DragonParadox said:
Absence of evidence also is not evidence of absence, my point it we do not know how good Nefferata's elixir was compared to Nagash because the only people who would know for sure are insane and/or liars. All we know for sure is that Neferata once made an elixir that made all vampires and Nagash once made one that was part of his transformation into a lich as well as Arkham's. All the rest is speculation.
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Neferata's also worked on normal humans, while Nagash was a liche already (I think Arkham may have been), i.e. a member of the generation of mortuary priests who'd bound their souls to their undying but aging bodies with the existing techniques of the cult, so Neferata's had more work to do.

Neferata's version also has the vortex to suck in the Winds of Magic which Nagash's may not have done (he used the Black Pyramid for that).
 
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Doesn't eating warpstone (like the skaven do) give you a crazy powerful boost to spellcasting?

Sure, for humans it would eventually kill them, but for Vampires and Nagash, he'd just get the boost.

Also, didn't Nagash also eat the huge amounts of warpstone to cast the spell that killed everything in Nehekhara and raised them?
 
DragonParadox said:
Absence of evidence also is not evidence of absence, my point it we do not know how good Nefferata's elixir was compared to Nagash because the only people who would know for sure are insane and/or liars. All we know for sure is that Neferata once made an elixir that made all vampires and Nagash once made one that was part of his transformation into a lich as well as Arkham's. All the rest is speculation.
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Then let me clear the air for you. This is Vampire Counts 8th Edition:

"In defiance of the laws imposed by the Priest Kings, Neferata, the Queen of Lahmia stole the most potent of Nagash's books and pursued her own studies in the dark arts. She attempted to replicate the Elixir of Life, and eventually she had a small measure of success. Neferata no longer seemed to age, but was possessed of a terrible thirst for blood." Page 8

"Neferata creates a corrupted version of the Elixir of Life. Though she achieves immortality, the Lahmian queen is left with a terrible thirst for human blood She eventually passes the curse to others, creating the race of Vampires." Page 22

"Small measure of success" and "corrupted version" are the key words here.
 
IronFist said:
Doesn't eating warpstone (like the skaven do) give you a crazy powerful boost to spellcasting?

Sure, for humans it would eventually kill them, but for Vampires and Nagash, he'd just get the boost.

Also, didn't Nagash also eat the huge amounts of warpstone to cast the spell that killed everything in Nehekhara and raised them?
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Vlad used a bunch of Warpstone for his ritual to raise all the dead of Sylvania that kicked off the Vampire Wars.
 
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