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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I want to say that after last update I admire Ranald for his consistency. He is a god of gamblers, and when Mathilde offered him to gamble with his very existence at stake he put his money where his mouth is and accepted, moreover he didn't do it reluctantly, he did it with a laugh.
 
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Enerael said:
You assume much. I have never spoken here on the matter either way (I have no opinion on it), and there are several other reasons why I could have written that.
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Interesting that you'd have such a strong opinion on the matter for all that you say you have no opinion or have not spoken on the matter either way before then.
 
LockedMind said:
I want to say that after last update I admire Ranald for his consistency. He is a god of gamblers, and when Mathilde offered him to gamble with his very existence at stake he put his money where his mouth is and accepted, moreover he didn't do it reluctantly, he did it with a laugh.
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Not sure if gods can be anything else other than all in when it comes to fundamental parts of their divine portfolio.
 
DragonParadox said:
I obviously can't speak for the thread, but I can say that I would never vote to use Necromancy under any and all circumstances including the death of Mathilde and everyone of her friends. It would simply be too out of character to use necromancy given her introduction to it in Shriland.
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I`d say the only time when I could be convinced to use necromancy - the death of AvH - has passed. For that Mathilde, it would be an arguably in-character move, which would create a great (if inevitably tragic) story. Right now we are playing Mathilde who refused to resort to necromancy to save the love of her life during her darkest hour. So unless we encounter an even more significant personal crisis (like saving Mathilde's hypothetical children - that's the only scenario I can imagine), resorting to necromancy would be cheapening that characterization moment, and I would be against it.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
Not sure if gods can be anything else other than all in when it comes to fundamental parts of their divine portfolio.
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I think there is a difference between pure Warp entities that embody the concept (like Chaos Gods) and ascended mortals with portfolio that reflects their character and deeds in life (like Sigmar and Ranald). In my opinion, it is likely that latter have more freedom than the former, since they have their mortal personality as a kernel/core/anchor against influence of their worshipers.

Also, I forgot to vote
[X] This wealth is the future of Karak Eight Peaks. Stay here with the Hoard.
 
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Enerael said:
...we are talking about my opinion on the Liber Mortis thing right? I don't understand what you are saying here.
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It's interesting that you say you have no opinion on the Liber Mortis when the whole argument that started this and you dove in headfirst on was the Divine Relic could allow Mathilde to use the Liber Mortis and get away with it. Considering you seem so virulently against it because you kept stating, even over QM confirmation otherwise, that the Grey College/paranoid people would be able to work against or around the Divine Relic thus by your logic Mathilde can't use the Liber Mortis because other people wouldn't believe her even with the Divine Relic and she would be caught, punished, etc...

Your position seems incredibly anti-Liber Mortis considering every word you've stated thus far and it only seems like you're backtracking trying to say that you "have no opinion" now.
 
Asheram said:
It's not a Memetic Hazard as you say, but can you 100% say that we will never, ever, use it in a pinch once we know it?
Some things are too dangerous to have for the temptation of using it, and that's why folk doesn't even want to open the book.
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Mathilde has always been technically able to swear her soul to Tzeentch and summon some daemons to solve her problems.

She still is, just needs to unlatch her belt and reach for the power.

Doesn't mean the odds of it happening arent so small as to be insignificant.
 
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Can we please cut down on the personal attacks? Even if one believes they're just recountings of the record with an accusative tone, I'd really prefer this thread not fall to a darker force than anything our game master can conjure up.
 
Asheram said:
It's not a Memetic Hazard as you say, but can you 100% say that we will never, ever, use it in a pinch once we know it?
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In pretty much any situation where that's even a viable option, relying on one of our actually-practised powers will be the better option. We know the players' wills won't break on this - we've had the critical moments of "use or don't use Dhar" before, to bring back Abelheim and to avenge him. We didn't pick it then, and we wouldn't pick it now.

Khepri14 said:
It's interesting that you say you have no opinion on the Liber Mortis when the whole argument that started this and you dove in headfirst on was the Divine Relic could allow Mathilde to use the Liber Mortis and get away with it. Considering you seem so virulently against it because you kept stating, even over QM confirmation otherwise, that the Grey College/paranoid people would be able to work against or around the Divine Relic thus by your logic Mathilde can't use the Liber Mortis because other people wouldn't believe her even with the Divine Relic and she would be caught, punished, etc...

Your position seems incredibly anti-Liber Mortis considering every word you've stated thus far and it only seems like you're backtracking trying to say that you "have no opinion" now.
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Hey man, figuring out whether the Coin could beat a determined Grey Order inquisition is a valid question to ask, regardless of any ultra-illegal artifacts we might happen to have they'd be interested in.
 
Hey Everybody! Quit being jerks and picking fights with each other!

If you wanna yell at someone, take it to PM's! Don't clog up the thread with anger!

Please and Thank you!
 
DocMatoi said:
while the book isn't, the magic itself is, due to being based on dhar, also known as dark/chaos magic.
And dhar is inherently corruptive. Thats the cause of like a good 10+% of problems in the Old World.
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Khepri14 said:
It's not a memetic hazard, no. But there might be stuff in it that could possibly lead to corruption that they're right about is what I'm saying, considering Necromancy does in fact deal with Dhar. And that shit is incredibly corruptible.
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Asheram said:
It's not a Memetic Hazard as you say, but can you 100% say that we will never, ever, use it in a pinch once we know it?
Some things are too dangerous to have for the temptation of using it, and that's why folk doesn't even want to open the book.
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SuperSonicSound said:
Yes. We already voted to not use it when the Elector count died. We've been given the option to use Dhar before. Not reading the book doesn't actually remove that from being an option.
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So can someone explain to me why peole are worrying about dhar corrution ? Because I remenber we having that belt of 100%, QM confirmed, imunity to dhar corruption, so I realy confused on why this is still an insue worth disscussing.
 
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Zaratustra said:
So can someone explain to me why peole are worrying about dhar corrution ? Because I we remenber we having that belt of 100%, QM confirmed, imunity to dhar corruption, so I realy confused on why this is still an insue worth disscussing.
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Well beyond the fact that it would tank our reputation with anyone who can notice we are doing it, there is the fact that Dhar tends to taint things around the user. So even if Mathilde herself isn't affected the area around her and the people within that area will be.
 
Khepri14 said:
It's interesting that you say you have no opinion on the Liber Mortis when the whole argument that started this and you dove in headfirst on was the Divine Relic could allow Mathilde to use the Liber Mortis and get away with it. Considering you seem so virulently against it because you kept stating, even over QM confirmation otherwise, that the Grey College/paranoid people would be able to work against or around the Divine Relic thus by your logic Mathilde can't use the Liber Mortis because other people wouldn't believe her even with the Divine Relic and she would be caught, punished, etc...

Your position seems incredibly anti-Liber Mortis considering every word you've stated thus far and it only seems like you're backtracking trying to say that you "have no opinion" now.
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This is crossing a line. Debate the topic, not the person.
 
Khepri14 said:
It's interesting that you say you have no opinion on the Liber Mortis when the whole argument that started this and you dove in headfirst on was the Divine Relic could allow Mathilde to use the Liber Mortis and get away with it. Considering you seem so virulently against it because you kept stating, even over QM confirmation otherwise, that the Grey College/paranoid people would be able to work against or around the Divine Relic thus by your logic Mathilde can't use the Liber Mortis because other people wouldn't believe her even with the Divine Relic and she would be caught, punished, etc...

Your position seems incredibly anti-Liber Mortis considering every word you've stated thus far and it only seems like you're backtracking trying to say that you "have no opinion" now.
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The timing was a coincidence.

You mean this QM "confirmation"?
BoneyM said:
Ranald the Deceiver's Coin of Flawless Lying vs Grey College institutional paranoia is pretty much unstoppable force vs immovable object. Yes, Ranald is that tricky. Yes, the Grey College is that paranoid. Any debate on it is likely to continue going around in circles, so let's shelve the matter.
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I was arguing that we shouldn't count on being able to fool everyone that doesn't have some kind of a powerful magical/divine defence against such things.

And yes she can use it, so long as its influence never shows in our spells or academic papers, which shouldn't be that hard. Or actually practice necromancy of course. She doesn't need the Coin for that. Abelheim had it in his possession for a long time and had almost certainly read it.

Just don't rely on the Coin to allow autosuccess on lies to the best human Intrigue specialists in the world that we know of. That would be stupidly OP.

I was talking purely about the Coins capabilities, which do have other applications that the Liber Mortis thing.
 
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[X] This wealth is the future of Karak Eight Peaks. Stay here with the Hoard.

I daresay almost getting squished by a literal god is more than can be asked of anyone. There's little we can contribute in this state and are at this point a casualty.


Also: The Boooooook.
 
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[X] This wealth is the future of Karak Eight Peaks. Stay here with the Hoard.

Yeah, good arguments abound for this, my coat is turned.

But yeah, let's not try to test unstoppable vs immovable object, the most logically consistent result is that both fail to interact with one another and now you're right back where you started and we can't do that forever.
 
Asheram said:
Whut? Where is that said?
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It was said here:

BoneyM said:
It means that you could juggle warpstone, hug a demon, and fling Dhar around and just have to deal with your robes getting singed as the corruption burns away rather than sinking into your soul. If you had this in Sylvania you would have just had to deal with occasional minor flashfires on your skin instead of those ominous 'go on, raise the dead, you know you want to' options popping up all over the place. It probably says a lot about Kragg's opinion of manling wizards that he saw that as the main sort of 'protection' you needed.
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Granted, it was before hiatus, but I think GM would inform us if the rules were changed.
 
Sinsystems said:
Well beyond the fact that it would tank our reputation with anyone who can notice we are doing it, there is the fact that Dhar tends to taint things around the user. So even if Mathilde herself isn't affected the area around her and the people within that area will be.
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And as long as people were disscussing the political implications of reading the book or usin dark magic were it could be seen and reported I understood it, the things is the disscussion somehow seen to have walked on Mathialde being personaly corrupted, and at that point it stoped making sense to me.

Asheram said:
Whut? Where is that said?
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Right here.
BoneyM said:
It means that you could juggle warpstone, hug a demon, and fling Dhar around and just have to deal with your robes getting singed as the corruption burns away rather than sinking into your soul. If you had this in Sylvania you would have just had to deal with occasional minor flashfires on your skin instead of those ominous 'go on, raise the dead, you know you want to' options popping up all over the place. It probably says a lot about Kragg's opinion of manling wizards that he saw that as the main sort of 'protection' you needed.

That said, while it makes you immune to metaphysical corruption it doesn't make you immune to metaphorical corruption; you could still go down a dark road where you become the next Nagash or fall to one of the Chaos Gods through hubris or personality flaws or personal tragedy, but you're not going to get fishhooked into it by mystical means.
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I feel compelled to say something about the liber mortis now.

I am looking forward to finding out the specifics of what the book is actually good for. Reading the book does not seem inherently risky and hiding it forever after reading looks like the best option available right now.


(I have to admit I would find it funny if we get a roll for "how useful is it?" and it ends up being useless. A hundred pages of discussion rendered moot :D)
 
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