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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Karaz Ankor

[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: name two non-magical topics to hire Cityborn scribes to copy all available Laurelorn books on.
-[X] Eonir of Laurelorn
-[X] Beastmen

[X] [PURCHASE] +1 Patron Gods of Laurelorn: Asuryan, Isha, Vaul, Hoeth, Hekarti. Eonir: Romance. (300g)
[X] [PURCHASE] +1 Laurelorn books on Asuryan, Isha, Vaul, Hoeth, Hekarti, and Loec (300 gc)
[X] [PURCHASE] +1 Patron Gods of Laurelorn: Asuryan, Isha, Vaul, Hoeth, Hekarti. Eonir: Loec, Romance. (350g)

[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
 
I'm doing the usual stuff and researching WHF lore and recording stuff. There are a few things that frustrate me though, so I hope you guys don't mind a short rant. It should be somewhat informational?

There are four major rivers in Bretonnia, and their map names three of them. There's the fast flowing River Sannez in the north running through the capitals of L'Anguille and Couronne (capital names are the dukedom names). There's the sluggish River Grismerie that turns swampy as it approaches Mousillon, but otherwise runs the length of the entirety of Eastern Bretonnia, running through the capitals of Gisoreux, Montfort, Parravon and then reaching Athel Loren. There's the southernmost river with tons of tributaries known as the River Brienne, which has the capital of Brionne and Quenlles on the main river (Brionne closer at the meeting point between river and sea) and then reaching Athel Loren. Carcassonne's capital lies on a tributary to Brienne. Brienne is special in that while it would be very profitable, it doesn't see as much trade as it should because people just straight up disappear sometimes. Scares people too much.

But there is one more river I didn't mention, and that's because of a frustrating thing. There is a river that runs to the south of Bordelaux and the north of Aquitaine, the shortest major river in Bretonnia perhaps. It is incredibly profitable because it houses the capital of Bordelaux, which rivals L'Anguille in naval trade, and the valley produced by the river produces some of the best wine in the old world. Here's the problem, there's canon conflict on its name and the map of Bretonnia doesn't provide its name.

The wiki uses the river's First Edition name, the river Morceaux. You might think that 2nd edition also uses that name because in Old World Armory when wines are mentioned it is stated that the "Morceaux River Valley" produces some of the best wine in the Old World. But Knights of the Grail decides to mix things up by calling it the River Gilleau after Gilles. Personally I'd probably use River Gilleau since it's more recent lore, but the fact that the wiki does not contain this name and instead uses the first edition name for it is irritating. I really want to trust the wiki because it makes my job easier, but sometimes it's just not accurate.

Oh, another frustration. I still don't know what the mountains in Norsca are called. The maps in Tome of Corruption and Realm of the Ice Queen don't give a name. I might have to crib the name from Warhammer: The Old World at this rate, since they actually bothered to name the mountains there.
 
Codex said:
Oh, another frustration. I still don't know what the mountains in Norsca are called. The maps in Tome of Corruption and Realm of the Ice Queen don't give a name. I might have to crib the name from Warhammer: The Old World at this rate, since they actually bothered to name the mountains there.
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I haven't been able to track down the origin of this map but it does show up a lot, and I did find multiple fan-made maps that agreed with it on the names of mountain ranges. So either it's canon, it's accurate to canon, or everyone's copying each others' homework.

 
Boney said:
I haven't been able to track down the origin of this map but it does show up a lot, and I did find multiple fan-made maps that agreed with it on the names of mountain ranges. So either it's canon, it's accurate to canon, or everyone's copying each others' homework.

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Well, this is definitely on par with some of Games Workshop's other naming decisions. :rofl:

It's got half-assed cribbing of modern Norwegian words (River Dypvann=Deepwater) and of Old Norse names. (Mountains of Naglfari=nail-traveler, a mythological boat made from corpse nails)
It's got marginal name-changes (Nilfheim for Niflheim) and references that seem rather torn out of context. (Nidhoggstad: Nidhogg is the name of a mythological dragon who doesn't appear in WHF, AFAIK, "-stad" is a suffix meaning "-town".)
It's got some directly transliterated names, some anglicized names, and some translated English names.
It's got the suffix "-vig", meaning a narrow bay, in the name of the city Bjarkavig that's on an island, while the named city in the nearby bay is Hyttaholm ("Holm": island)
The names of the mountain ranges are the English "Hellspire", one name that looks to mean "Wolves are nearby" (Ulfwerenar), three Norse myth placenames, two Norse myth personal names.
It's inconsistent as to whether the archaic letter Þ should be modernized as "th" in Thiazi, or "p" in Volpir.

Someone put a lot of effort into staying close to the stuff being parodied but never quite right nor entirely original. :D Impressive work.
 
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Boney said:
I haven't been able to track down the origin of this map but it does show up a lot, and I did find multiple fan-made maps that agreed with it on the names of mountain ranges. So either it's canon, it's accurate to canon, or everyone's copying each others' homework.

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Here is a map of Warhammer The Old World. I don't know how much of it you want to use, but I actually think it's a pretty good map even if it isn't entirely accurate to older material. The names of the Norscan mountains are very similar to the ones in the map you posted:
The commonalities are Jotunsheim, Thiazi, Ulfwernar, and Vanaheim. The map you gave does have other names like Niflheim, Hel, Hellspire, Naglfari and Skadi, but that's probably because it's more zoomed in than the Old World map.
 
Codex said:
Here is a map of Warhammer The Old World. I don't know how much of it you want to use, but I actually think it's a pretty good map even if it isn't entirely accurate to older material. The names of the Norscan mountains are very similar to the ones in the map you posted:
The commonalities are Jotunsheim, Thiazi, Ulfwernar, and Vanaheim. The map you gave does have other names like Niflheim, Hel, Hellspire, Naglfari and Skadi, but that's probably because it's more zoomed in than the Old World map.
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And here is the most recent released map, detailing the Border Princes with all factions currently revealed. Louen Orc-Slayer implies this is the map as of 2201 IC.
 
Mister Phantom said:
And here is the most recent released map, detailing the Border Princes with all factions currently revealed. Louen Orc-Slayer implies this is the map as of 2201 IC.
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I've seen this map and posted it before. I liked the look at the Border Princes, but it wouldn't have served for my purposes because it doesn't give a good look at all of Norsca like the map I posted did.
 
Codex said:
But there is one more river I didn't mention, and that's because of a frustrating thing. There is a river that runs to the south of Bordelaux and the north of Aquitaine, the shortest major river in Bretonnia perhaps. It is incredibly profitable because it houses the capital of Bordelaux, which rivals L'Anguille in naval trade, and the valley produced by the river produces some of the best wine in the old world. Here's the problem, there's canon conflict on its name and the map of Bretonnia doesn't provide its name.

The wiki uses the river's First Edition name, the river Morceaux. You might think that 2nd edition also uses that name because in Old World Armory when wines are mentioned it is stated that the "Morceaux River Valley" produces some of the best wine in the Old World. But Knights of the Grail decides to mix things up by calling it the River Gilleau after Gilles. Personally I'd probably use River Gilleau since it's more recent lore, but the fact that the wiki does not contain this name and instead uses the first edition name for it is irritating. I really want to trust the wiki because it makes my job easier, but sometimes it's just not accurate.
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Could split the difference via the "in-universe document" thing - maybe the river was originally named Morceaux but then later got changed to Gilleau (with possibly haphazard uptake among the local citizenry). Probably would have been part of political maneuvering between the King of Bretonnia and the Duke of Bordeleaux: either a show of patriotism from a Duke eager to prove his loyalty, or a power play from a King concerned about same.
 
If I were to make sense of it that's what I might do, but chances are they just didn't consider it, because Knights of the Grail doesn't use anything other Gilleau to refer to it. It's Old World Armor that refers to the place as Morceaux River Valley where the wine grows. And I have to say Morceaux River Valley is fancier than Gilleau River Valley. If I was in charge I would probably make it so the boatmen who wander the river (and they're incredibly important, they're specialised boatmen who are the only ones who can navigate it properly) call it Gilleau out of national pride, and the Wine snobs who own the vineyards like the name Morceaux better.

Oh yeah, a fun fact while we're on the topic of rivers and wine. The River Sannez' headwaters are in a vale within the Pale Sisters (mountain range to the north of the Grey Mountains) called Valle Florida.

Florida exists in WHF in Bretonnia, and it's well known for its wine, which is described as "an acquired taste".
 
Godwinson said:
They changed it from NIFLHEIM to NILFHEIM. FL to LF transposition.
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deathofrats0808 said:
Smacks head into desk
Apparently I can't fucking read today.
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I love having excuses to post this:

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal
pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't
mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer
be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Amzanig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt! tahts so cool!
 
Codex said:
If I were to make sense of it that's what I might do, but chances are they just didn't consider it, because Knights of the Grail doesn't use anything other Gilleau to refer to it. It's Old World Armor that refers to the place as Morceaux River Valley where the wine grows. And I have to say Morceaux River Valley is fancier than Gilleau River Valley. If I was in charge I would probably make it so the boatmen who wander the river (and they're incredibly important, they're specialised boatmen who are the only ones who can navigate it properly) call it Gilleau out of national pride, and the Wine snobs who own the vineyards like the name Morceaux better.

Oh yeah, a fun fact while we're on the topic of rivers and wine. The River Sannez' headwaters are in a vale within the Pale Sisters (mountain range to the north of the Grey Mountains) called Valle Florida.

Florida exists in WHF in Bretonnia, and it's well known for its wine, which is described as "an acquired taste".
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*gasps*

Florida Man! Is he an ork?
Angelform said:
I love having excuses to post this:

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal
pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't
mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer
be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Amzanig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt! tahts so cool!
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Facebook is leaking again, I see.
 
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Codex said:
If I were to make sense of it that's what I might do, but chances are they just didn't consider it, because Knights of the Grail doesn't use anything other Gilleau to refer to it. It's Old World Armor that refers to the place as Morceaux River Valley where the wine grows. And I have to say Morceaux River Valley is fancier than Gilleau River Valley. If I was in charge I would probably make it so the boatmen who wander the river (and they're incredibly important, they're specialised boatmen who are the only ones who can navigate it properly) call it Gilleau out of national pride, and the Wine snobs who own the vineyards like the name Morceaux better.

Oh yeah, a fun fact while we're on the topic of rivers and wine. The River Sannez' headwaters are in a vale within the Pale Sisters (mountain range to the north of the Grey Mountains) called Valle Florida.

Florida exists in WHF in Bretonnia, and it's well known for its wine, which is described as "an acquired taste".
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Well, Florida is Spanish for "flowery".

As to the Morceaux/Gilleau, no reason it can't be both, we are told the Knights of the Grail call it that so maybe someone renamed it that in a fit of chivalry or something and all the winemakers are mad cause it cuts into their name recognition.
 
So any ideas for next turn's plan? The vote is pretty close.

I'm thinking something like this:

[] Plan Recruitment Recruitment, Recruitment
-[ ] MAX: Learn a skill: Enchanting at the Colleges
-[ ] JOHANN: Study an artefact: Kurgan enchanted weapons
-[ ] EGRIMM: Try to Recruit the Light College for the Waystone Project
-[ ] Attempt to bring an Order into the Waystone Project (Jade College)
-[ ] Furnish the research spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (2000 gc)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (House Tindomiel)
-[ ] EIC: Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.
-[ ] Tower of Serenity: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands

The broad reasoning here is to get as many humans on board as quickly as we can manage. Before this turn we were playing with an empty hand, right now that hand is filled with all of one card and his name is Thorek Ironbrow. The Grey Lord we interacted with basically treated us as the local dwarf whisperer and that is admittedly what we were hired on as, but if we ever want to be more than that, to be heeded and taken into account as a wizard, we need to get some human secrets in board sooner rather than later. Now on to the individual choices:
  1. Max is a scribe but we do not meed to milk for more favor and we have run out of low hanging lore to send him after, so we might as well send him to learn enchanting in case it is relevant
  2. This is right up his alley and I do not want to just send everyone for lessons at the same time, it might be a bad look back home in Aldrof
  3. Boney said this can work and by the looks of things Horasman is a good diplomat as well as a lot more adept in dealing with his fellow light mages than we would be
  4. Another College that has juicy secrets we can make use of and I do not think they would ask for things we cannot give
  5. Obvious choice is obvious, we are going to need to get to work eventually and for that only the very best of llabs will do
  6. And finally getting some elves on board... and it is the dark magic elves. Seriously though Boney said she is more 'dark magic' in the sense of being a hydra who represents the winds in their native state unbound by the lore of Hoeth. Guess what Waystones are supposed to work with? Also they voted for contact with outsiders which means they are starting out at least neutral to the whole thing
  7. Well looks like it might be good for Stirland and that is part of the Empire so inline with the company mission, that is all I have to say, no great interest in the EIC
  8. Grab this before Horstman or one of the other wizards present does.
Lastly the last of the Dun exhaustion is about to go away meaning we can take an overwork action. I am tempted to take that one as an AV Action because it has been there for so long and it looks like we are close to actually getting use out of it.
 
DragonParadox said:
So any ideas for next turn's plan? The vote is pretty close.

I'm thinking something like this:

[] Plan Recruitment Recruitment, Recruitment
-[ ] MAX: Learn a skill: Enchanting at the Colleges
-[ ] JOHANN: Study an artefact: Kurgan enchanted weapons
-[ ] EGRIMM: Try to Recruit the Light College for the Waystone Project
-[ ] Attempt to bring an Order into the Waystone Project (Jade College)
-[ ] Furnish the research spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (2000 gc)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (House Tindomiel)
-[ ] EIC: Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.
-[ ] Tower of Serenity: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands

The broad reasoning here is to get as many humans on board as quickly as we can manage. Before this turn we were playing with an empty hand, right now that hand is filled with all of one card and his name is Thorek Ironbrow. The Grey Lord we interacted with basically treated us as the local dwarf whisperer and that is admittedly what we were hired on as, but if we ever want to be more than that, to be heeded and taken into account as a wizard, we need to get some human secrets in board sooner rather than later. Now on to the individual choices:
  1. Max is a scribe but we do not meed to milk for more favor and we have run out of low hanging lore to send him after, so we might as well send him to learn enchanting in case it is relevant
  2. This is right up his alley and I do not want to just send everyone for lessons at the same time, it might be a bad look back home in Aldrof
  3. Boney said this can work and by the looks of things Horasman is a good diplomat as well as a lot more adept in dealing with his fellow light mages than we would be
  4. Another College that has juicy secrets we can make use of and I do not think they would ask for things we cannot give
  5. Obvious choice is obvious, we are going to need to get to work eventually and for that only the very best of llabs will do
  6. And finally getting some elves on board... and it is the dark magic elves. Seriously though Boney said she is more 'dark magic' in the sense of being a hydra who represents the winds in their native state unbound by the lore of Hoeth. Guess what Waystones are supposed to work with? Also they voted for contact with outsiders which means they are starting out at least neutral to the whole thing
  7. Well looks like it might be good for Stirland and that is part of the Empire so inline with the company mission, that is all I have to say, no great interest in the EIC
  8. Grab this before Horstman or one of the other wizards present does.
Lastly the last of the Dun exhaustion is about to go away meaning we can take an overwork action. I am tempted to take that one as an AV Action because it has been there for so long and it looks like we are close to actually getting use out of it.
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1. lets please talk to elves before recruiting elves
2. if we want to get humans in, I want to go for the edgewise. the more different traditions in at the start, the better. and jade is still part of the college. while the hedgewise are weirdly good at anti-demons and banishment, like, 'they got to know something others don't' good at it.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
1. lets please talk to elves before recruiting elves
2. if we want to get humans in, I want to go for the edgewise. the more different traditions in at the start, the better. and jade is still part of the college. while the hedgewise are weirdly good at anti-demons and banishment, like, 'they got to know something others don't' good at it.
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  1. Fair enough, change that to 'get to know the wild magic elves'
  2. I really do not want to deal with a group that hates Laurelorn's major human contact, and I do not think we have anything to do with banishing daemons, the point of Waystones is not to banish the daemons, it is to keep the magic level low enough that they can't manifest.
 
[X] [PURCHASE] +1 Patron Gods of Laurelorn: Asuryan, Isha, Vaul, Hoeth, Hekarti. Eonir: Romance. (300g)

I like to misinterpret this vote to imply that Eonir Romance is one of the Patron Gods of Laurelorn.
 
So far it looks like most of the vote's been decided by now, but there's one area that's incredibly close, and it's not got much discussion. Right now, we have:

[21] [DWARF] Runed pistols
[20] [DWARF] No purchase.

Just a 1 vote difference. Any one of us could be the deciding vote on if we get Runed pistols or not. As such, I strongly urge you to consider your vote on this topic, and to include it if you haven't already.

I, personally, think we should. Mathilde continually uses her pistols in combat. Even if you think they're her worst weapons, she still manages to use them quite a bit. After all, Warhammer is filled with enemies that die when shot. And as Mathilde continually demonstrates, shooting a pistol is oftentimes faster and more convenient than weaving together a spell. So an upgrade here will be used and will improve her combat ability.

Moreover, it costs us nothing. No lost opportunities, no use of resources, nothing. Getting her pistols runed doesn't stop Mathilde from getting kickflip pistols with kickflip runes in the future. It doesn't stop her from experimenting with enchanting guns. It doesn't even prevent her from, say, getting an enchanted hand crossbow. (If you ever manage to find the AP for crossbow training.) It is, effectively, a free +1 to pistols. When we've spent so much time and effort and resources into improving Mathile's gear, why shouldn't we take an upgrade that's free?
 
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I definately think that we should recruit the jade order this turn, but I'm less sure on the Light. While Mira is clearly ascendant, Alric still controls the externally facing parts of the light order, which might put the waystone project right back in his wheelhouse. Given we'd be sending Egrimm to recruit the order, that doesn't seem likely to go over well. Maybe give it a turn or two to see if Mira solidifies control?

However what we really need to start thinking about is when we want to do this action:

[ ] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones

This is when we actually start the project for real. It was easy to put things off while we didn't really have anything to work with, but with both Thorek and a Grey Lord present we're going to have to start actually doing research pretty soon. I figure we might be able to push things one more turn, but no more than that before people start asking uncomfortable questions. So that means we either need to plan on doing it this turn, or next.

@Boney If we take the lay foundations action, and a recruitment action on the same turn, will the people we recruit be included in the framework we generate, or does the recruitment action have to be on a previous turn for them to count?
 
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