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If you take my words out of context to represent a situation that I haven't even considered when I wrote it, then sure.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
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True, but while I'm using the term (and slightly borrowing from 40K) I take the Daemon Engine meaning from the Skull Cannon's fluff, rather than the rule: "the Skull Cannons are monstrous fusions of daemonic spirit and hellforged machinery", "Not that the Skull Cannon needs much in the way of encouragement to maim and slay —the Daemon bound within its black heart is as wrathful and murderous as any in Khorne's service". Which indicates to me that they're Daemons bound to machines, in order to power them. Similar to Hellcannons, but less likely to eat those with it, because it's not been forced into servitude by mortals.
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Or just learn to let other people's pedantry wash over you without letting it affect you. You'll stress out less that way.
Guys I think the 'how sentient are daemons' debate is the sort of thing that causes vigorous academic discussion (with a helping of murder) among the Dawi Zhar. I do not think you can draw a single decision about all types of daemons and to draw a line and call only some of them sentient would require far more information on the subject than we have IC or OOC.
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Tbh I would not be against a demon rights movement, as unlikely as one would be, especially if it included mutants, who are innocent in the whole chaos thing, never got why they get attacked tbh
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I'm not touching the mutant topic with a 10 foot pole, but when it comes to Daemons:
That is Boney's interpretation of them. Unless you're willing to fight for the rights of the Chaos Gods, Daemon rights movement are folly. The Dark Gods are evil because they represent all that is evil in humanity (and the other sapient races). Unless you somehow manage to eradicate all evil everywhere, Daemons and Chaos Gods will remain evil.
Sir_Travelsalot
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It has some to do with the risk. Because after you've been changed by one mutation, you are a great deal more susceptible to gaining more, and you can only have so many before your body explodes into a Chaos Spawn and goes on a mindless rampage.
It's never presented as being a reasonable measure and many times is pointed out as driving mutants into the servitude of Beastman tribes, mind, but that is the in-setting justification.
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So, on a completely different topic:
Would it make more sense for Mathilde's gyrocarriage to be parked on her penthouse balcony landing pad, in one of the Karag Lhune hangars, or in the dragon room, which is essentially a converted hangar without the equipment? And similarly, when she visits Laurelorn, where does it land? My current assumption would be Middenheim, but she could also land it somewhere closer to a dwarfhold and ride further north.
Would it make more sense for Mathilde's gyrocarriage to be parked on her penthouse balcony landing pad, in one of the Karag Lhune hangars, or in the dragon room, which is essentially a converted hangar without the equipment? And similarly, when she visits Laurelorn, where does it land? My current assumption would be Middenheim, but she could also land it somewhere closer to a dwarfhold and ride further north.
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Khorne has rights too! /j
The Gods of Law may or may not say hi*. And Nagash. There are flavour of evil that the Chaos Gods don't embody. There are aspects of the Chaos Gods that aren't evil, but become very problematic when taken to excess, which is what the chaos gods do.
* As a random side note, I've previously wondered whether Hashut would fit better as a misattributed God of Law rather than Chaos, if they exist. Chaos dwarves is just what humans call them, after all.
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It is kind of debatable if you can have aspects of the Chaos Gods that are not evil. I mean take Khorne and then extract the murder rage and endless hate, what you are left with (martial honor, bravery etc..) is a sane war god. There is a name for that, several in fact Ulric, Myrmidia, Sigmar etc...For something to be Khorne it has to contain the whole of him and it has to be taken to the extreme, the extreme is the whole point of Chaos. Now you could argue that all war gods are aspects of Khorne and that might not be wrong from a certain point of view, but it is kind of worthless as any sort of practical advice.
In summation yes Chaos is the bad part, the socially acceptable parts of the portfolio are only part of Chaos when the daemons use them as an entry drug for the crazy.
Well, Boney has told us that both the Norscans and the steppe tribes manage to exist as functioning societies over the long term while also being devoted worshippers of the Chaos Gods, so to at least some degree they can function as the gods covering the sand bits of their portfolios as well as turning them up to eleven and going nuts.
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Well I'm not sure about the Kurgans but the Norscans do worship the Dark Gods under different guises and not their true 'this is what they are called in the Dark Tongue' Names. This is usually interpreted as the gods tricking the poor ignorant norscans, but personally I think it is a sort of social protection mechanism so basically 'The Hound' is sort of like 'Ulric God of Wolves'... if the cult of Ulric was utterly infiltrated with Khorne worshipers at the upper levels, there are even there degrees of separation from the dreadful truth of the Four.
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This is my new head canon
The thing is, the same gods are explicitly called different names in different Old World languages without them being different gods. Consider this:
Haendryk is known by many names in the Old World, depending on the local dialect of Old Worlder. In the Empire he is 'Handrich'; in Bretonnia 'Affairiche', in Tilea 'Mercopio', in Estalia 'O Prospero' and in Kislev 'Kalita'. His worship is not popular in Norsca (he's too much of an urban god), while the Arabyans disapprove of his association with usurers and have banned his cult. Elves and Imperial Dwarfs have no equivalent, while a few expatriate Dwarfs who live among Humans worship him in his local form.
That doesn't seem to matter though. They all know who they're worshipping.
As a side note, I saw looking for this that the Marienbergers believe that Haendryk is an ascended mortal, and some claim descent from Him. Probably another source of tension between Marienberg and the wider empire.
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You take the evil out of the Chaos Gods and they're no longer the Chaos Gods. They're about extremes. Not every worshipper of the Chaos Gods is completely evil, but that's because the Chaos Gods don't have full control of their soul. I view the process of becoming a Daemon Prince to be the actual process of giving your soul over, and every point beforehand is just the trial period and you still have your humanity, as twisted and distorted as it is from continued service to the Chaos Gods.
In fact, all the way up to Daemon Princehood, there is a chance, however low it is, for a chaos warrior to be redeemed:
"Eerily, instead of being twisted and evil, this weapon is somehow virtuous and holy. It grants the user a +20% bonus to Weapon Skill Tests made to strike creatures of Chaos (Mutants, Daemons, and their ilk). Moreover, each week the weapon remains in the possession of its owner, the wielder must succeed on a Will Power Test or lose a boon of Chaos. This starts with any mutations gained, followed by any Rewards, and then any Gifts. If the Character loses all boons and somehow survives, he is freed from the hold of Chaos and may return to the lands of his birth." Tome of Corruption Page 189
I don't think this weapon could do anything to a Daemon or a Daemon prince, but as long as you're short of that point you can be cleared of your corruption.
Now, a reminder that this has to be a Relic Chaos Weapon, which is absurdly rare. Beyond that, whoever wields it needs to stay using it for weeks for him to be cleared, which has to be a concious decision. It's very unlikely, but redemption is possible.
In fact, all the way up to Daemon Princehood, there is a chance, however low it is, for a chaos warrior to be redeemed:
"Eerily, instead of being twisted and evil, this weapon is somehow virtuous and holy. It grants the user a +20% bonus to Weapon Skill Tests made to strike creatures of Chaos (Mutants, Daemons, and their ilk). Moreover, each week the weapon remains in the possession of its owner, the wielder must succeed on a Will Power Test or lose a boon of Chaos. This starts with any mutations gained, followed by any Rewards, and then any Gifts. If the Character loses all boons and somehow survives, he is freed from the hold of Chaos and may return to the lands of his birth." Tome of Corruption Page 189
I don't think this weapon could do anything to a Daemon or a Daemon prince, but as long as you're short of that point you can be cleared of your corruption.
Now, a reminder that this has to be a Relic Chaos Weapon, which is absurdly rare. Beyond that, whoever wields it needs to stay using it for weeks for him to be cleared, which has to be a concious decision. It's very unlikely, but redemption is possible.
Fair point, but there is sort of a unity of expectation between worshipers of 'Handrich'; in Bretonnia 'Affairiche', in Tilea, like they are just translating the name, but then you do have cases where the gods are starting to branch off and various heresies.
My theory is that one Norscan tribe can worship 'the Hound' and another one worships 'the Brass Warrior' and both of them will agree that they worship the same thing, but at the same time if you were to show them some of the more extreme acts of Khorne worship they practice up in the wastes they would lose their lunch and not recognize their god in that. The masks would thus be more similar to each other and to southern gods than to the daemon god at the end of the path of skulls.
MiracleGrow
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I admit seeing chaos champion getting redeemed is something I always wanted to see. But their still clad in their armour and covered in hundreds of prayer seals and shit. It's a picture I always had stuck in my mind.
I think the armor counts as one of the Gifts the sword would purge, Chaos armor is not just fancy swag, it is melded to the flesh of the bearer, which is one of the reasons they don't have to eat and drink.
MiracleGrow
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Still a hella cool image to see it spiffed out in sigmarite religious symbols tho.
Sir_Travelsalot
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As well as how Chaos Sorcerers can keep casting in it without any problems.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
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TBF, that might be down to the Sorcerer rather than due to the armour. It's not like it's exclusive to people who wear Chaos Armour after all.
Sir_Travelsalot
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No, no, in Tome of Corruption Chaos Armour is openly listed as not giving any penalties to spellcasting to the wearer.