shepsquared
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Or maybe dragons can eat gold and gems for safekeeping because they can regurgitate it at anytime and the thing about them using it for digestion is people speculating.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Codex
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This might be the case if this wasn't an Army Book. If they were talking about people speculating, they would say "some people think" or "it is believed" or something like that. But this isn't an RPG book that is written from the perspective of a scholar, it's trying to throw lore straight at your face.
There is absolutely no guarantee that it is canon in the DL-verse, I'm just headcanoning it to be because I think it's sweet for Asarnil to be prioritising Deathfang's comfort. Cython certainly doesn't seem to care about material valuables since they reside in a barren mine, but they're a Wind Dragon so they might be different, they seek knowledge to compensate for that lack of material desire. Also, Dragons sleeping definitely staves off their hunger I'm pretty sure. Why eat tons of food when you can just sleep for thousands of years?
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A peek at something that might become significant in the long term:
There is a candidate behind each question mark. Over time you might hear about distant events that could indicate who they are and how they're going.
Will you say at least which one is the Mammoth?
I do not think a vampire can fall to chaos, given the nature of their souls. They would have to willfully jump off the bridge of general sanity, and probably do some heavy duty magic to get any sort of blessing of the Dark Gods.
Codex
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Necromancers on the other hand, are valid targets. And now that I have finished reading Vampire Counts, I have a good feeling that Heinrich Kemmler is one of the Candidates for the position in Boney's list if he's willing to expand the portfolio away from Warriors. He straight up swore a pact to defeat the enemies of the Chaos Gods in their name as long as they would restore his power.
Although that particular incident has yet to occur I think. Boney isn't restricted to canon though and can make it happen earlier.
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Nah even army books are subject to the Games Workshop "did we say two contradictory things? well uh, someone somewhere has definitely said each contradictory thing so uh, Both Canon" treatment.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
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This is technically true. But it also leads to silly things like the entire Lizardmen Army Book just not working, because who the fuck wrote it?
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Mathilde's not going to be on that list, because there's no way to do that without trampling over player agency.
I am curious about the non-canon option, though. Is Borek from canon?
I am curious about the non-canon option, though. Is Borek from canon?
Sir_Travelsalot
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The original Karak Dum expedition was part of the background of the Gotrek & Felix novels, so I would presume so.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Just because it's on the table doesn't mean it's likely.
I mean, Mathilde is secretly someone who had the highest potential to wield Dhar in the setting outside of bullshit like the Dark Elves, she's a capable warrior, and she's got a simmering undercurrent of profound anger at how the world works that she normally tries to make go away by doing good works.
Except she's sitting on such bombs that if she fires off even one of them, she becomes thrown out and her deeds rendered to dust because there's a zero tolerance policy towards that--and for very good reason. It's not unthinkable that the reaction to that is "You know what? Fuck this stupid world." And a Mathilde with nothing to lose and her latent 'These people are literally too dumb to live' tendencies would be more willing to hear out a good offer.
I mean, Mathilde is secretly someone who had the highest potential to wield Dhar in the setting outside of bullshit like the Dark Elves, she's a capable warrior, and she's got a simmering undercurrent of profound anger at how the world works that she normally tries to make go away by doing good works.
Except she's sitting on such bombs that if she fires off even one of them, she becomes thrown out and her deeds rendered to dust because there's a zero tolerance policy towards that--and for very good reason. It's not unthinkable that the reaction to that is "You know what? Fuck this stupid world." And a Mathilde with nothing to lose and her latent 'These people are literally too dumb to live' tendencies would be more willing to hear out a good offer.
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- Actually pretty lost
Yeah, if she was an NPC she'd be a great pick, but Boney can't winnow her through a knockout tournament arc without very much giving the game away or treading all over player agency, which is foundational to their entire method of QMing. She's out of the running for meta reasons.
Yes, he first appeared in the Gotrek and Felix novel Demonslayer as the leader of the Second Dum expedition. The first expedition, which is the one we joined, originally only had three survivors; Gotrek, Snorri and Borek, and is why Gotrek and Snorri became slayers.
Our presence radically changed that, and it's too early to say if it's for the better or worse.
Codex
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I've only heard this secondhand, and I'm going to be putting this under spoilers in case the people reading this don't want get spoiled on Gotrex and Felix:
I heard that Snorri got drunk and mistook Gotrek's wife and child for Goblins and killed them, and in his shame he swore the Slayer Oath. And Gotrek seeing his wife and child dead believes it to be a Dwarf Lord who did it and kills him and his entire retinue, swearing the Oath afterwards. I don't know how accurate this is, but in that respect what happened in DL is much better than what happened in canon
She's also much more likely to take up necromancy than chaos, because she considers Chaos fundamentally antithetical, while necromancy is more like 'Really bad idea, generally'. She'd have already pulled the walking corpses long before she'd start dealing with daemons.
That's not quite right. Gotrek became a slayer because his wife got killed while he was away (and he murdered a thane because of it, IIRC), not because the expedition failed. Snorri also became a Slayer related to that, and not the expedition as first cause.
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I haven't read the novels but I think the question of if this was better than canon is that since there won't be a second exhibition we've derailed significant events that had an impact on the End Times and the uncertainty is if we're worse off because those won't happen.
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Mathilde is an incredibly unlikely candidate for Everchosen.
But then, so was Archeon. A lot of things had to go wrong in just the right way for him to even join Chaos, nevermind rise all the way to Everchosen.
The most likely choice is propably some Norscan warlord or Sorcerer, but the unlikely Everchosen make for better stories.
But then, so was Archeon. A lot of things had to go wrong in just the right way for him to even join Chaos, nevermind rise all the way to Everchosen.
The most likely choice is propably some Norscan warlord or Sorcerer, but the unlikely Everchosen make for better stories.
Fluff from Army Books are also, according to what passes for GW's canon policy, IC people's writing or storytelling.
Literally everything written about the setting is, that's the conceit, and why it's fine for different sources to contradict, as the IC author was just wrong or lying. Nothing is written from the perspective of an omniscient reliably narrator.
And probably find a way to enter the Aethyr so their soul is accessible for a god to bless.
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That being said there have to be some things that are more trustworthy then others. When the lizardmen army book talks about the coming of the Old Ones and the wars to colonize the planet from the PoV of the Slaan that has more weight to it because the magic toads were there and they most certainly did not tell anyone about it so it has to be an eyewitness account.
Mopman43
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I think it's a bit of a cop-out, really.
And it's not like they're consistent, the history section in Children of the Horned Rat straight-up says "this is not information that could possibly exist in-universe" on page 27.
I don't think Wulfrik, he became The Wanderer in, I believe, 2516- I doubt he was alive at quest-start.
The thing with Chaos is that they've basically had characters introduced every edition, so a proper list is going to have to go all the way back to 4th.
Accordingly to the book on him, which should be take with a grain of salt as we don't know who would be told the accurate details and then tell of them, lots of things wouldn't have gone wrong, and Be'lakor basically save-scummed by telling his past self how to make sure they did when what his original plans were failed.
Well, they could have told it to the elves pre-Coming of Chaos and it's recorded by their scholars researching the prehistory of the world.
The elves also have access to magic to allow for retrocognition, so may be able to investigate such things with high magic doing a better controlled version.
Also, according to one dragon in Bestiary of the Old World, he was there when they arrived and collaborated with the Old Ones to help build their gates. As there may be living dragons on Ulthuan who witnessed the arrival of the Old Ones and participated in subsequent events, they may simply have told the high elves what happened. The history in Realms of Sorcery is probably what the Colleges believe, probably based on elven knowlege.
I don't really see it as a cop out. It's the same thing as just about all real historical knowledge pre-photography is subject to.
And what page 27 of the Children of the Horned Rat says is quite possibly the opposite, I think. It says:
The history provided below, therefore, cannot be attributable to any inhabitant of the Old World, and should be treated accordingly.
This is a health warning saying that no one in the Old World should have been able to write the following section, so you should wonder who could write it. Have the High Elves on Ulthuan secretly been compiling a history of the skaven to work out how to better combat them? Is, perhaps, Clan Eshin an exception to the general rule about Skaven not caring, and then recording it in their strongholds in the East. Or, once again in the east, does the Dragon Emperor command his civil service to maintain records about one of his many foes. Closer to home, but still outside the Old World, this is the kind of thing that the Lahmian Sisterhood in the Silver Pinnacle may well have compiled.
What that sentence means to me is that the history may have errors or omissions or biases because it was not written by an Old World historian, but instead someone from elsewhere with their own perspective and sources of knowledge.
It noticeably does not say 'this is out of character information that no one in the setting knows'. It says that this history isn't attributable to anyone in one part of the setting. That word, attributable, also keeps open the possibility that people in the Old World do know this, but no one else knows that they do. For example, it take my examples above, the Cathayan or Ulthuani Ambassadors, or elder Lahmians may know this, but it's not known that they know. Also, only the skaven and humans are mentioned in the preceding passages. The possibility of the dwarves having records is ignored.
Also, the history is, in many ways clearly not the writings of an impartial observer. It says things like 'Humans and Dwarfs worked and lived in perfect harmony'. No one ever lives together in perfect harmony. Also, it says 'Their building techniques and engineering skills were the greatest ever seen on the surface of the Old World' That's very likely bullshit as well, given that there were joint elf-dwarf settlements built in their mutual Golden Age, some of which apparently produced wonders.
It reads like something an inhabitant of the city would say when waxing lyrical about how great the place was - and it could of been, given that the Lahmians would presumably have been interested in the place and may have made one of the city's daughter part of their Sisterhood, for example.
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Sir_Travelsalot
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There's a couple here that, sadly, I don't think could qualify. An Everchosen has to be one who can balance the favour of all four of the Chaos Gods, whereas Sigvald is firmly Slaaneshi, and will stay that way because he is entirely built on being a massive narcissist; to the point that the entire reason he's Slaanesh's champion was because, when faced with the Silver Prince, who's visage changes to reflect the beholder's vision of utter perfection, Sigvald saw his own face without a single alteration. The sheer ego of such a worldview amused Slaanesh enough for him to receive blessing after blessing, but it also makes him entirely unfit to be a champion to any of the other Gods.
For a similar reason, Valkia also is not likely able to qualify for Everchosen because of her single-minded devotion to Khorne, with the added complication that she already ascended to the stature of Daemon Prince. And I'm pretty sure the Everchosen has to be a 'mortal' champion of Chaos, not least because the last daemon to hold the favour of all four was Be'lakor, and he has spent the rest of his existence in (futile) plotting to try to usurp Chaos again.
One possible candidate though, is Mortkin. It was openly stated in canon that Mortkin was such a mighty Chaos Lord that he could have contested Archaon for the position of Everchosen, if he hadn't cast away all his Chaos blessings after getting his revenge and then subsequently died. He's a very legitimate candidate for the title if that doesn't happen in DL's timeline.
Codex
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If we exclude Champions and characters dedicated to a specific Chaos God from the running, then the list of characters we'd come up with might not even hit 30 characters, which is the number of non-Archaon Canon characters included in the running. Most notable characters in Chaos armies are dedicated to one god above all, very few are equally dedicated to all of them.
Sir_Travelsalot
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I didn't say that characters dedicated to one Chaos God were out of the running, I was saying that Sigvald's flat-out incapable of being a Champion to anyone but Slaanesh, because the only reason he's a Chaos Champion at all is that Slaanesh found his bottomless well of narcissism amusing. And Valkia's already a Daemon Prince, so she's out of the running regardless.