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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Sir_Travelsalot said:
I didn't say that characters dedicated to one Chaos God were out of the running, I was saying that Sigvald's flat-out incapable of being a Champion to anyone but Slaanesh, because the only reason he's a Chaos Champion at all is that Slaanesh found his bottomless well of narcissism amusing. And Valkia's already a Daemon Prince, so she's out of the running regardless.
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Valkia the Bloody is not a Daemon Prince. I know, sounds weird right? But there are clear rules in the Army Book for what constitutes a Daemon Prince and Valkia has "Eye of the Gods" a special ability that Daemon Prince cannot have. That's because they've already recieved the greatest reward, Daemonkind. She also doesn't have any Daemon abilities, she's just a favored Champion of Khorne who he basically treats like a Daemon Prince, but she isn't one. Nothing in her blurb says she ascended to the position.
 
I was looking over Codex's amazing character list for potential candidates, and immediately one name stuck out at me:

Alberich Haupt-Anderssen, the former Elector Count of Stirland, last seen being dragged into the warp.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
I didn't say that characters dedicated to one Chaos God were out of the running, I was saying that Sigvald's flat-out incapable of being a Champion to anyone but Slaanesh, because the only reason he's a Chaos Champion at all is that Slaanesh found his bottomless well of narcissism amusing. And Valkia's already a Daemon Prince, so she's out of the running regardless.
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The only reason anyone is a Champion of any Chaos God is that said god found their amusing. the Dark Gods are fickle monsters whose actions bear no semblance of rhyme or reason. In that sense it is entirely possible for Sigvald to be made Everchosen, it is just highly unlikely.
 
BurnNote said:
She's also much more likely to take up necromancy than chaos, because she considers Chaos fundamentally antithetical, while necromancy is more like 'Really bad idea, generally'. She'd have already pulled the walking corpses long before she'd start dealing with daemons.
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Even if for no other reason than that practicing necromancy already has a visible contigent of support within the voterbase.

Maybe if the Chaos Gods had actually bothered trying to recruit Mathilde when she was at her lowest (like they're supposed to do, it's making Faustian deals is like 40% off the appeal of Chaos -.-), they might have had a chance, but not now.
 
It's true that it's a bit odd that Mathilde was never noticed by Chaos until she straight up jumped into the Chaos Wastes and faced Daemons and artifacts of Chaos. Before then, there were many opportunities to be led that way that Chaos never took advantage of, and Algard even says that he'd be surprised if Mathilde never attracted the attention of the Plotter already. I have a running theory that the Rune of Valaya in Mathilde's belt does more than just turn Dhar into flames...
 
while 'what exactly is' Valkia the Bloody is up in the air, 'who she works for' is not, she is Khorne's main girl (possible even his lover, that bit of canon is purposefully fuzzy).

The Everchosen needs to be chaos undivided, I don't see Khrone willing to share her like Slaanesh might share Sigvald or Nurgle Tamurkhan.
 
The easiest way for chaos to corrupt and tempt Mathilde would be to lean heavily on her inherent paranoia. Make her think that everyone is out to get her, that friends are false and that nowhere is safe. No matter where she runs or hides, there are enemies in every shadow, waiting for her, hunting her. Faces of those she trusts stalk her in her dreams. Strangers have malice in their eyes and daggers behind their backs. Every common room of every tavern is just one cry away from becoming a mob dragging her to the pyre, the shouts of her parents mixing with the fury of the crowd.

And then, when she's frightened and alone with nowhere to turn, the North beckons with open arms.


... hmm, might write that up into an actual omake later.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
The easiest way for chaos to corrupt and tempt Mathilde would be to lean heavily on her inherent paranoia. Make her think that everyone is out to get her, that friends are false and that nowhere is safe. No matter where she runs or hides, there are enemies in every shadow, waiting for her, hunting her. Faces of those she trusts stalk her in her dreams. Strangers have malice in their eyes and daggers behind their backs. Every common room of every tavern is just one cry away from becoming a mob dragging her to the pyre, the shouts of her parents mixing with the fury of the crowd.

And then, when she's frightened and alone with nowhere to turn, the North beckons with open arms.


... hmm, might write that up into an actual omake later.
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You would have to kill some people she trusts unreservedly first, or convince them to be genuinely hostile, mainly Regimald and Belegar. To be honest what I think would be the best way though it lean on her love of knowledge and make her think she can use Chaos for good, like the standard 40K radical inquisitor fall.
 
Codex said:
It's true that it's a bit odd that Mathilde was never noticed by Chaos until she straight up jumped into the Chaos Wastes and faced Daemons and artifacts of Chaos. Before then, there were many opportunities to be led that way that Chaos never took advantage of, and Algard even says that he'd be surprised if Mathilde never attracted the attention of the Plotter already. I have a running theory that the Rune of Valaya in Mathilde's belt does more than just turn Dhar into flames...
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I mean. We don't know that Qrech isn't a Daemon as part of a Tzncheeh scheme to break the conspiracy of silence. ;)
We've also embedded corruptible humans into a dwarf Karak which could set the groundwork for a betrayal that could severely shake the Empire/KA alliance.

But also Chaos is a lot less powerful and omni present than it is in 40K. The lowest point Omegahugger brought up was prior to us getting the Belt. They just didn't know how far Mathilde would go, and it takes a lot more effort from the to corrupt people when Daemons can't just whisper in the ears of psykers.
The Lamians where controlling us at the start so they would have had to compete for control. After Abelheim gave us the information to dismantle them, we went on a march to retake K8P which is a terrible environment to try and induct us into a cult. After that the humans who weren't Dwarves, Halflings, possibly mind warped by Kragg and the rune of Dwarfiness or pious Ulricans left so the gods where left with the hardest people to try and make a cult out of, which will have limited Chaoses abilities to do something then.
Opportunities are less frequent and not all the great than we might think.

Basically, stuff we've done prior to the Dum expedition has always been at the expense of mutual enemies we share with Chaos, and Chaos benefits indirectly as we're spreading their most manipulatable targets in doing so.
 
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Dark as Silver said:
I mean. We don't know that Qrech isn't a Daemon as part of a Tzncheeh scheme to break the conspiracy of silence. ;)
We've also embedded corruptible humans into a dwarf Karak which could set the groundwork for a betrayal that could severely shake the Empire/KA alliance.

But also Chaos is a lot less powerful and omni present than it is in 40K. The lowest point Omegahugger brought up was prior to us getting the Belt. They just didn't know how far Mathilde would go, and it takes a lot more effort from the to corrupt people when Daemons can't just whisper in the ears of psykers.
The Lamians where controlling us at the start so they would have had to compete for control. After Abelheim gave us the information to dismantle them, we went on a march to retake K8P which is a terrible environment to try and induct us into a cult. After that the humans who weren't Dwarves, Halflings, possibly mind warped by Kragg and the rune of Dwarfiness or pious Ulricans left so the gods where left with the hardest people to try and make a cult out of, which will have limited Chaoses abilities to do something then.
Opportunities are less frequent and not all the great than we might think.
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I do not think corruptible humans in a dwarf hold are an issue, not least because dwarfs are no less corruptible, it is just that they do not mutate as fast or as obviously and Chaos finds them a bit boring compared to their favorite toys.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
enchantments are better on guns.

And I would like to not fill up our range slot with guns we already have instead of something new.
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Enchantments are not better. Magic we'll never get on our guns is automatically worse than magic we do get on our guns. Given we've had unlimited opportunity to spend CF on our guns for a long time now, we've got a pretty good indicator that we'll never get enchantments.

By the metric of "better" which you were talking about, do you have any proof that enchantments on guns are better than runes? Boney post or update excerpt or something?

As for slot, I very much want our range slot to be our revolvers. The revolvers are, bar none, the coolest possible mundane ranged weapons we could possibly have. In this particular case, that directly transfers over to the coolness of a theoretical magical weapon; magic revolvers are cooler than any other possible magic ranged weapon we could have.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
The easiest way for chaos to corrupt and tempt Mathilde would be to lean heavily on her inherent paranoia. Make her think that everyone is out to get her, that friends are false and that nowhere is safe. No matter where she runs or hides, there are enemies in every shadow, waiting for her, hunting her. Faces of those she trusts stalk her in her dreams. Strangers have malice in their eyes and daggers behind their backs. Every common room of every tavern is just one cry away from becoming a mob dragging her to the pyre, the shouts of her parents mixing with the fury of the crowd.

And then, when she's frightened and alone with nowhere to turn, the North beckons with open arms.


... hmm, might write that up into an actual omake later.
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The problem with tempting her by playing with her paranoia is that she would likely realize it's Choas trying to tempt her. She's paranoid enough that a runelord visiting her instead of asking her to do so made her suspect an assassination attempt.

I find likely that Mathilde would see through the attempt. She knows how Choas operates, and when seeing everything « turning against her » and the only way out up North she would probably understand immediately.

No, I think the best way to tempt her is the good old « I'm desperate enough to protect my country/loved ones at all cost » and put her in a situation where the only (visible) option to save those she love is turning to Choas.
 
K von Carstein said:
No, I think the best way to tempt her is the good old « I'm desperate enough to protect my country/loved ones at all cost » and put her in a situation where the only (visible) option to save those she love is turning to Choas.
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I'd say it's less about turning to Chaos, and more about looking at, say Apparitions, and deciding that just as the Winds of Magic are born from the Realms of Chaos and yet harnessed and turned to serve productive purposes, you can chain Apparitions. We do that, and then we capture an Apparition that looks a bit dodgy, but we can convince ourselves that it's a risk worth taking to accomplish some critical goal, and then sometime later we turn around and realised that we've bolted a disguised daemon to Mathilde's soul.
 
Codex said:
It's true that it's a bit odd that Mathilde was never noticed by Chaos until she straight up jumped into the Chaos Wastes and faced Daemons and artifacts of Chaos. Before then, there were many opportunities to be led that way that Chaos never took advantage of, and Algard even says that he'd be surprised if Mathilde never attracted the attention of the Plotter already. I have a running theory that the Rune of Valaya in Mathilde's belt does more than just turn Dhar into flames...
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I'm not. The Chaos gods lean heavily on the illusion that they're omni-present and all-powerful, and that you should become their slave to be spared the worst of it, but it's only ever an illusion. They then take the people who fall for it and use them as puppets to cause, well, Chaos, feeding into the illusion that they're everywhere.

Mathilde would be a great target, but hasn't been one precisely because of their limited reach (at least in this realm.)
 
Andres110 said:
Enchantments are not better. Magic we'll never get on our guns is automatically worse than magic we do get on our guns. Given we've had unlimited opportunity to spend CF on our guns for a long time now, we've got a pretty good indicator that we'll never get enchantments.

By the metric of "better" which you were talking about, do you have any proof that enchantments on guns are better than runes? Boney post or update excerpt or something?

As for slot, I very much want our range slot to be our revolvers. The revolvers are, bar none, the coolest possible mundane ranged weapons we could possibly have. In this particular case, that directly transfers over to the coolness of a theoretical magical weapon; magic revolvers are cooler than any other possible magic ranged weapon we could have.
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There was a huge multi page debate a while back, that you were apart of if I remember right, where every rune that goes on guns was looked at, and the consensus was that gun runes were not great.

(if I remember right, the best one people though of was putting the rune of Kragg on a gun to pistol wipe someone).

like it's there, and I might try to find the old argument when I have a bit of time. But I'm sure it's come up a few times since.
 
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@Boney, plants are Mystical to Ghyran rather than Elemental because they're a product of how people think of it. Is something similar going on to why Ghyran's colour is the way that it is? Is it seen as green as often as it is because people associate it with green plants?
 
On the topic of Mathilde falling to Chaos; she'd go for Nagash or the Vampire Counts first. If she knows where Vlad and Isabella are being kept, she can break them out. I won't say it would be easy, but I highly doubt the Church of Sigmar can keep a Grey Lady Magister out if she put in the effort and getting out should be simple enough since there's not much they can gather on short notice could stop Vlad and Mathilde. There's also the option of doing what Mannfred did and wandering around down south looking for more necormancy stuff and running into Nagash or Arkhan.
 
The way I look at Mathilde going bad is that she's too proud to be derivative of Nagash or Chaos. She wouldn't learn Necromancy or serve chaos, she'd invent her own Dark Lore.

The worst bit is that she's probably stay unmutated and relatively mentally functional through the process, thanks to the Belt and being able to stand on the shoulders of giants meaning she can avoid many of the rookie mistakes and come out of the more advanced ones relatively unscathed.
 
A reminder that Boney has mentioned a few times that there is no guarantee that Valaya isn't directly watching us:
Boney said:
Sometimes godly artefacts have punishment for misuse built in. Sometimes they don't, and the God does the smiting directly. And sometimes divine displeasure takes the form of a very angry Throng lead by a very angry Runelord tearing down everything you've ever built.

In any case, it seems like a strange argument to get invested in. I haven't seen any indication that there's anything like a majority pushing for Mathilde to embrace the dark side of the Force.
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We don't know for sure, and it is true that Runes can be used by the forces of evil, but we have no indications that Ancestor Runes can be. If, like the Eye of Gazul, Valaya's rune imparts a portion of her attention on to Mathilde, it could very well mean that the rune stops working the instant Mathilde deliberately touches the Bad Stuff. Mathilde's borderline experimentation with Wind manipulation wasn't touching the bad stuff just yet, but I'm p sure Valaya is partially there, just as Gazul was partially there for the Eye.
 
Alratan said:
The way I look at Mathilde going bad is that she's too proud to be derivative of Nagash or Chaos. She wouldn't learn Necromancy or serve chaos, she'd invent her own Dark Lore.
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We'd probably start with getting Eshin Magic books. Ulgu+Dhar and build on that. :p
Precedent with the Liber Mortis would ensure we'd at least read them, even if we'd want to keep it a secret.
 
If Mathilde is going bad and creating her own lore tongs seems the way to go, especially when combined with windherder it would essentially giver her a knockoff version of Qaysh.
 
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