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Maybe in internal empire affairs but overall?

Mathilde is way ahead of the curve, not necessarily due to any single deed (even exotic stuff like bringing Vlag or mugging Mork aren't entirely without equivalent - Elspeth Von Draken also has a divine artefact) but because of sheer quantity and diversity. Volans and a couple other might have had significantly superior ones but it certainly wouldn't be common - and in some cases (Alric) having a lot of deeds would be counterbalanced by also having a lot of baggage.
Lady Magister Grey blew up a Chaos Dwarf foundary. Kupfer managed to kick off slave riots in Nagaroth, and created feuds that still flare up.

The impressive thing about Mathilde is how fast she did her stuff. She's accomplished incredible, legendary things. So has every single other LM. It's almost literally a job requirement. Some of the things she's done are without equivalent (mostly deciphering Squeakish), but again that's not unique to her.
 
Karak Dum has fallen
Teclis couldn't save Dum
Expedition: "We're going to relieve or evacuate Karak Dum!"
Expedition: Travel travel travel.
Expedition: "Dum doesn't want or need our help!"
Thread internalised dialogue: Dum doesn't need saving, ergo, Dum is saved, ergo we saved Dum! :V

In fairness, when you do Drive-Thru Hold Saving like at Vlag, they can all start to blur together. ;)
 
The outcome of manouvering to become emperor is we get assassinated by the Grey College.

Seriously, people, what world do you people think that trying to do so wouldnt look like a blatent attempt at seizing power by us?
 
The outcome of manouvering to become emperor is we get assassinated by the Grey College.

Seriously, people, what world do you people think that trying to do so wouldnt look like a blatent attempt at seizing power by us?
Easy. Just have a blatant success at stealing power, instead. There are lots of options here, but I'm partial to raising an army of the dead.
 
Our major achievements so far:

2473 - Stirlandian League dismantled, assets transferred to the EIC
2476 - Haunted Hills purged of undead, destruction of Castle Drakenhof, beginning of the end of Vampire dominance within Sylvania.
2477 - Vampire cult within Altdorf is culled
2478 - Expedition to K8P is declared a success with the reclaiming of the first few mountain holds, Mork and Gork mugged of their divine power
2480 - Collage of Necromancy destroyed, Battlewizards mobilised
2482 - K8P fully reclaimed, Waaagh Birdmuncher is destroyed, and the Skaven, Orcs, Goblins and Trolls living there are annihilated, counters to Greenskin magic created and taught.
2483 - Queekish translated, papers on Skaven tactics published
2485 - 312 dwarves rescued from the ambush on the Skull River
2486 - Karak Vlag is recovered, 20,000 dwarves saved.

Thirteen years from the Stirlandian League to Vlag. What will the next 13 years hold?
 
There's a pretty big difference between didn't and couldn't. On the topic of the impressiveness of Mathilde's deeds I imagine saving Dum* Vlag has to have catapulted her up to among the top LM's, it pretty easily sits head and shoulders above the rest of her acts that earned her the title IMO. Of course now we have to prove that it wasn't a fluke.

*Edit: I blame the others for starting it.

My sincere apologies. I am good with details but bad with names. Corrected my post. Meant Vlag, yes.

Lady Magister Grey blew up a Chaos Dwarf foundary. Kupfer managed to kick off slave riots in Nagaroth, and created feuds that still flare up.

The impressive thing about Mathilde is how fast she did her stuff. She's accomplished incredible, legendary things. So has every single other LM. It's almost literally a job requirement. Some of the things she's done are without equivalent (mostly deciphering Squeakish), but again that's not unique to her.

I mean, yeah, other LM's have done legendary things too. That is not an argument against us trying to do another legendary thing.

Moreso because we seem to work faster than most of them
 
You are correct that it's not an argument against doing another legendary thing. It's not supposed to be. I'm saying that her accomplishments are not way ahead of her peers.

That is arguable (Vlag and Queekish are imho much more impactful, but it can be argued they were mostly luck) but fair, yeah, that miscommunication was my bad, because the discussion up till now was about that.
 
Thirteen years from the Stirlandian League to Vlag. What will the next 13 years hold?
I think that Tsarevich Boris Bokha already wrote our perfect set of achievements, and pretty much double-dog-dared us to achieve them:
Crazy MF said:
Well, here is Kislev's promise. You say there might be ways to push back Dewastacja? Restore Praag? Push back Troll Country? I say: to make this happen, all of Kislev will move mountains. You need gold? Kislev has gold. You need Ice Witch? They want make friends with me after father ignores them, they want me to take Ice Witch wife, I can make them cooperate. The Hag Witches? The kossars know they are mine, you can have Hag Witches. Ursun knows me, His priests will cooperate. If Elves in Erengrad want to stay in Erengrad, they must help. There is nothing I would not make happen if it means more Kislev and less Za. Do you understand?" You nod. "Good. I have gone to the returned Dwarves, spoken to them of you. You tore them from the grip of the Za after all had given up on them. After they had given up on them. Do the same for Kislev

Is this possible? Well, probably not. Is this what we should be aiming for? After that speech, it absolutely is!
 
The last person to try that did so when the Empire wasnt united to smash our face in.
There are, generally speaking, issues necromancers have
1. Difficult Learning Curve
2. The necromancer is still squishy
3. Dhar is very corruptive

1. Generally speaking, most necromancers don't know that much. Either they learn by themselves, or their teachers were stingy with knowledge (potentially the stinginess actually came several steps up the teaching ladder instead, but it's the same result). We, on the other hand, are a fully educated lady magister who has the Liber Mortis. There are necromancers who know more, but damn few of them.

2. is an issue because if you can just kill the necromancers, you don't need to outfight their army of the dead. We don't blow away most of the field like we do in 1, since a decent portion of necromancers are vampires, but our personal combat skills are definitely up there, especially with our gear counted. We're not quite as good as, say, Alkaseltzer, but we were close enough that we ended up beating him, and we're also very well equipped to avoid fights since, you know, grey magister with one of the fastest transportations around.

3. We know the Dhar secrets, which helps a lot here, and have Kraggs belt, which does most of the rest of the work of bringing us up to vampire level. If for whatever reason that's not an option, we could definitely become a vampire.

We also have some miscellaneous advantages, like knowledge of the colleges countermeasures and the empire's readiness, the 4 faced coin (potentially dependent on why we wanted to conquer the empire, more useful if we went EG black hat against the chaos dwarves or skaven), and potentially the lore of stealth.

It's hardly a sure thing that we could take the empire, but if we went full black hat we could definitely give it a go. Most likely, we would be able to give it several goes, since many potential failure states would leave room for us to try again later.
 
Is this possible? Well, probably not. Is this what we should be aiming for? After that speech, it absolutely is!
That ship kinda sailed. We're in Laurelorn, not Kislev, and Boney warned repeatedly that we shouldn't assume that whatever results we get are terribly applicable outside of the specific context we'll be working in.
There are, generally speaking, issues necromancers have
1. Difficult Learning Curve
2. The necromancer is still squishy
3. Dhar is very corruptive
None of those are issues that Vampire Lords have, though.
 
1. Generally speaking, most necromancers don't know that much. Either they learn by themselves, or their teachers were stingy with knowledge (potentially the stinginess actually came several steps up the teaching ladder instead, but it's the same result). We, on the other hand, are a fully educated lady magister who has the Liber Mortis. There are necromancers who know more, but damn few of them.

I think this gets underestimated.

It's a point made in Liber Necris that Nexromancy is a hard skill to learn, and that learning it requires instruction, ideally from a tutor but at least from a text book, and that it's very hard to find such knowledge in any complete form.

A second point is that according to Realms of Sorcery any spellcasting is incredibly hard and dangerous if you don't know a magical language to organise your thoughts with and define and cast a spell in. Most necromancers aren't going to know either the Arcane Nehekharan old school necromancy is defined in, or whatever Van Hal codified his spells in, which is probably a derivative of the Morrite dialect of the Cults's magical language.

That means that your average aspirant necromancer already has two strikes against them. They won't have the technical skill to manipulate magic, they won't know many spells, or very good versions of the spells they do know, and they won't be fluent enough in a magical language to focus their minds on precisely the right mindset to shape a necromancy spell.

None of those are issues that Vampire Lords have, though.

The first is. Most vampires don't benefit from Neferata's training bootcamp for new recruits. They won't automatically learn an arcane language or the technical skills of the lore. They'd have to learn them from someone or something else.

There is a reason that mortal necromancers are apparently very keen to become vampires though.
 
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There's also not aging and a general boost. Vampirism won't make someone suddenly proficient at spellcraft or battle but it will give an edge and plenty of time to hone it.

It also makes you have the talent for spellcasting if you previously lacked it (or strengthens any existing talent), as well as making you immune to the side effects of necromancy. Then there are blood gifts which can make you an even better necromancer.

All in all, it's a pretty good deal for a necromancer. Certainly a lot better than being doomed to insanity and corruption from ambient Dhar.
 
It also makes you have the talent for spellcasting if you previously lacked it (or strengthens any existing talent), as well as making you immune to the side effects of necromancy. Then there are blood gifts which can make you an even better necromancer.

All in all, it's a pretty good deal for a necromancer. Certainly a lot better than being doomed to insanity and corruption from ambient Dhar.

It also makes you immune to pretty much every other miscast... eventually. The only miscast a vampire has to worry about long term is 'dragged into the warp'. Everything else they will endure, even if it is as dust on the wind. Frankly if I were a wizard in WHF that is the kind of resistance I would want.
 
"Looks like Meeting with the High King has a... 4-6 week wait time right now."
"Fine. I'm on a tight timeline. I'll just take a Dalaz Kron Buster Special, with... Awkward Proposition, Conclave Surprise and a Transcendent Boon to go."
Thorgrim: *activates the Eyes* I can see everything now and I can see you're still hungry for more...Would you like fries with that? Not you, Elgi.
 
It also makes you immune to pretty much every other miscast... eventually. The only miscast a vampire has to worry about long term is 'dragged into the warp'. Everything else they will endure, even if it is as dust on the wind. Frankly if I were a wizard in WHF that is the kind of resistance I would want.

Well, yeah, there's a reason that Neferata was a genius. The original version of the vampiric transformation before they were cursed with all their weaknesses was near perfect for an arcane spellcaster. And if you're a pre-modern monarch supping on the blood of your people is probably something you're well used to doing figuratively already.

The improvements to intelligence and willpower probably also help a fair bit.
 
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Well, yeah, there's a reason that Neferata was a genius. The original version of the vampiric transformation before they were cursed with all their weaknesses was near perfect for a spellcaster.

Well they did always have to consume the blood and souls of the living. That did have its own social issues, what with said living not being on board with being turned into cattle. Neffie ws a bit blaze about the reaction of her fellow kings, or perhaps her ability to weather it.
 
Well they did always have to consume the blood and souls of the living. That did have its own social issues, what with said living not being on board with being turned into cattle. Neffie ws a bit blaze about the reaction of her fellow kings, or perhaps her ability to weather it.

Yeah, she went too far and too unsubtly. If she'd managed to keep the predation to criminals and to enemies she'd probably have been much better off.

She was quite thoroughly manipulated by W'Soran though. Simply not purging the cults may have been enough, despite the source of her magic, she'd largely succeeded at what the Mortuary Cult was trying to do.

Mathilde will just have to do better when designing her ascension. AV means she has a significant advantage when it comes to having access to the infinite potential of the Aethyr to use as a basis for transformation. Even if it is pretty risky.
 
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Well, yeah, there's a reason that Neferata was a genius. The original version of the vampiric transformation before they were cursed with all their weaknesses was near perfect for an arcane spellcaster. And if you're a pre-modern monarch supping on the blood of your people is probably something you're well used to doing figuratively already.

The improvements to intelligence and willpower probably also help a fair bit.

In all fairness she built the whole process based on Nagash's work and Nagash is just crazy.


There was something in 6th or 7th edition about Teclis being second only to Nagash - which was touted as a truly great achievement - it is pretty safe to say that he has no competition that isn't a giant toad.
 
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