Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Well they did always have to consume the blood and souls of the living. That did have its own social issues, what with said living not being on board with being turned into cattle. Neffie ws a bit blaze about the reaction of her fellow kings, or perhaps her ability to weather it.
*blasé

In all fairness she built the whole process based on Nagash's work and Nagash is just crazy.


There was something in 6th or 7th edition about Teclis being second only to Nagash - which was touted as a truly great achievement - it is pretty safe to say that he has no competition that isn't a giant toad.
It's in 8th too:
"It is even claimed that Teclis' power approaches that of the great Necromancer Nagash, so it is fortunate that he has dedicated his life to thwarting the powers of Chaos and death."

Although honestly, the reason Teclis is so terrifying is that he is by far the youngest of the great wizards (with maybe the exception of the Fey Enchantress) so he has a lot of room for growth.
 
You know I've been thinking, since I reread the part with the Dhar-Ulgu hybrid the Skaven created which got me thinking what another such hybrid would look like: Aqshy.

I don't think it draws on the fire.

I think it would draw on emotion manipulation. Driving people into a mad fury without cause, draining them of will, dragging them and chaining them in the most horrifying mirth, or sapping their spirit of its strength(metaphorical, not literal). Picking through minds like a phone book, making them, forcing them, to feel as you feel.

The best comparison I can come up with is Psycho Pirate.
 
Last edited:
You know I've been thinking, since I reread the part with the Dhar-Ulgu hybrid the Skaven created which got me thinking what another such hybrid would look like: Aqshy.

I don't think it draws on the fire.

I think it would draw on emotion manipulation. Driving people into a mad fury without cause, sapping them of will, dragging them and chaining them in the most horrifying mirth, or sapping their spirit of its strength(metaphorical, not literal). Picking through minds like a phone book, making them, forcing them, to feel as you feel.

The best comparison I can come up with is Psycho Pirate.

Oohhhhh- or burn away passion and emotion? Like, the aqushy pulls it up and enflames it, and the Dhar taints it and burns it away leaving apathy and dullness? So it would almost be a lore of the fly lord, something that leaves shuffling wrecks of what used to be people. Ironic to have corrupted fire be the ally of the stuff purifying fire is the cleanser of.
 
Oohhhhh- or burn away passion and emotion? Like, the aqushy pulls it up and enflames it, and the Dhar taints it and burns it away leaving apathy and dullness? So it would almost be a lore of the fly lord, something that leaves shuffling wrecks of what used to be people. Ironic to have corrupted fire be the ally of the stuff purifying fire is the cleanser of.
That's not Nurgle's thing though. Nurgle's followers are typically characterized as being happy, even joyful. They have pretty normal emotions (but are delighted by things commonly seen as disgusting). If anything, I'd say Nurgle's magic would be a corruption of Ghyran rather than Asqhy. Emotional manipulation falls more into the sphere of Tzeentch or Slaanesh.
 
You know I've been thinking, since I reread the part with the Dhar-Ulgu hybrid the Skaven created which got me thinking what another such hybrid would look like: Aqshy.

I don't think it draws on the fire.

I think it would draw on emotion manipulation. Driving people into a mad fury without cause, draining them of will, dragging them and chaining them in the most horrifying mirth, or sapping their spirit of its strength(metaphorical, not literal). Picking through minds like a phone book, making them, forcing them, to feel as you feel.

The best comparison I can come up with is Psycho Pirate.
Contagious madness, overwhelming emotions that spread like fire.
 
Becoming Empress, on the other hand, I think is flatly impossible unless you mean "the Dread Empress of Infinite Skeletons, may she reign eternal". If we wanted to become empress "legitimately" then we shouldn't have picked to be a Wizard in character creation, since the amount of time it will take for that prejudice to reduce among the Empire's population will require fairly extreme life extension measures for Mathilde to reach, and I think the Elector Counts won't be that keen on voting in an immortal empress.

I mean, if we dropped everything else? I think it might be doable by just going full Protector on the Empire.

Just "deal with problems" non-stop for a few years by leaveraging our current connexions and Mathilde's personal might. If we have the Protector on at all time surely we could amass enough goodwill in both the populace and the Elector counts to at least give it a shot (If we survive such a high risk lifestyple for a long time).
 
Last edited:
I mean, if we dropped everything else? I think it might be doable by just going full Protector on the Empire.

Just "deal with problems" non-stop for a few years by leaveraging our current connexions and Mathilde's personal might. If we have the Protector on at all time surely we could amass enough goodwill in both the populace and the Elector counts to at least give it a shot (If we survive such a high risk lifestyple for a long time).
Mm. I suspect that would end up with Mathilde being given some sort of personal reward, and possibly pressure put on the Colleges to give her a promotion to SM. I'm not sure it would result in her being offered the Empress position, if only because the Protector guarantees people know what you did (and think you did it selflessly), but it doesn't guarantee they'll be grateful to you, or that they'll help you in return, especially when it goes against their own self-interest.
 
I want to complain a bit, so please bear with me.

So I'm reading several books to get a full understanding of the Empire and cross referencing it with Boney's staatements to try to make sense of things, and one of the things that always confuses me because of all the contradictions between the various books, is the goddamn Endal/Jutone question.

To those who don't know what I mean, the pre-Imperial tribes consisted of the Merogens, Menogoths, Brigundians, Asoborns, Fennones, Ostagoths, Talutens, Cherusens, Udoses, Unberogens, Teutogen, Thuringans, Endals, Jutones, Bretonii and sometimes Frikings, Norsii, Roppsmen and Ungol are included. These respectively align to Wissenland, Solland, Averland, Stirland, Sylvania, Ostermark, Talabecland, Hochland, Ostland, Reikland, Middenland, Drakwald, Westerland, Nordland, Bretonnia, doesn't exist anymore, Norsca, and two separate Kislev ethnicities.

To make things a little more complicated, the Jutones who inhabited Nordland were assaulted by the conquering Teutogens, so they decided to split up so they wouldn't be overrun. A portion left to the ruins of Sith-Rionnisac in Endal territory and founded Jutonsryk, which would later become Marienburg. A portion also left to enter Western Ostland in the Forest of Shadows. The Jutones who remained became known as the Was Jutones, although that name isn't even used that often. When Sigmar united the Empire, he united the 12 most powerful tribes into the 12 initial provinces, but you might notice that there's more than 12 tribes noted above. Some of them are easy to reconcile. Roppsmen and Ungol inhabited the southern edges of Kislev territory, which was only conquered during Sigismund's time and only for a couple hundred years. The Bretonnii left the Reik Basin through the Grey Mountains and formed independent tribes, a portion of them were conquered to form Sigismund's "Westermark" province but it didn't last long after Gilles united them. The Frikings were destroyed and I'm still not sure if Norsii were always Northmen or they were Pre-Imperial who left for the North after being chased out by Sigmar. The second scenario is presented sometimes when I'm reading these books. The Fennones were only conquered during Sigismund's time, so they can be disregarded.

Now we get into the hard part. Some mentions of Talabecland/Taluten history indicate that they had a very strong grip on the Cherusen and Ostagoth tribes, and one passage says something about them being upset that Sigmar decided the Cherusens would have their own province instead of being part of Talabecland. There's also mention of Talabecland consuming the Ostagoths and expanding their territory into the area that would be known as Kislev's Southern Oblast at the same time as Ostland expanded into pre-Kislev's Western Oblast during Sigismund's time. At that time Ostermark was known as Talabecland's "East March", which is why I think Tabecland's EC is also known as the "Margrave of the Eastern March". Ostermark also is Eastern March in German I think?

So imagine my frustration when there are lines that say Ostermark gained their independence from Talabecland indicating they became subordinate to them at some point, only for some other paragraphs stating that the Ostagoths were one of the founding tribes and formed an initial province. But this doesn't end here, it gets worse.

The Endals were the tribe controlling Westerland, now known as the Wasteland. The Was Jutones were the Jutones that remained in Nordland, and the Jutones were the ones who founded Jutonesryk. Sounds simple right? It's also known that Jutonsryk was only conquered during Sigismund's time and was folded over into Westerland. There are also examples of the Endals being the one of the 12 founding tribes. So this means that Nordland isn't one of the 12 founding provinces, Westerland is right?

No. In most cases Nordland is one of the 12 initial provinces. There's also evidence of Marbad, the leader of the Endals, creating a settlement named Marburg that bears very similar naming scheme to Marienburg, but I don't get it. Did he take control of Jutonsryk at some point? Several times it's been mentioned that the Jutones were the ones who found Sith Rionnsac's ruins and built the first city on top of it, and it was only hundreds of years later that it would be taken over. Marbad was a leader during Sigmar's time. Did he create a different settlement named Marburg in Westerland and when Jutonsryk was taken over they named it Marienburg after him? Why are the Endals always listed as one of the 12 founding tribes if Nordland was an initial province but not Westerland? What's the deal with Ostermark? Is it actually a founding province or did they only pop up later after rebelling against Talabecland? Were they a founding tribe that was conquered by Talabecland and then rebelled or were they always subservient until their rebellion?

This is just a fraction of what I'm struggling with at the moment. I'd love any support in clarifying these confusions.
 
That's not Nurgle's thing though. Nurgle's followers are typically characterized as being happy, even joyful. They have pretty normal emotions (but are delighted by things commonly seen as disgusting). If anything, I'd say Nurgle's magic would be a corruption of Ghyran rather than Asqhy. Emotional manipulation falls more into the sphere of Tzeentch or Slaanesh.

That kind of depends on how honest you think the servants of Chaos are with themselves and others. I mean sure they present as jovial, but I have read some pretty convincing arguments that is is a front for hating everyone and everything and want to drag them into the same pit as them. Of course that too is passion of its own so not really relevant in this context, just wanted to note that you probably should not trust Nurglites about how happy they are anymore than you should trust the servants of the Changer that they have free magic candy in that alley
 
Assuming a few years for the buildup of forces, I think we should be done with the Waystone research just in time to join the expedition to Silverspear. It was lost roughly 500 years before 8peaks so wondering what wonders we can find there.
It's possible to excuse helping put with another reclamation as an attempt to get more runesmiths on-board with the project.
Problem is that it's starting to seem like we're going to have to go to Albion, or possibly even Lustria(assuming we can get the identity of the Elves predecessors put of some books), in order to finish this waystone project in a completionist manner.
 
Last edited:
I want to complain a bit, so please bear with me.

So I'm reading several books to get a full understanding of the Empire and cross referencing it with Boney's staatements to try to make sense of things, and one of the things that always confuses me because of all the contradictions between the various books, is the goddamn Endal/Jutone question.

To those who don't know what I mean, the pre-Imperial tribes consisted of the Merogens, Menogoths, Brigundians, Asoborns, Fennones, Ostagoths, Talutens, Cherusens, Udoses, Unberogens, Teutogen, Thuringans, Endals, Jutones, Bretonii and sometimes Frikings, Norsii, Roppsmen and Ungol are included. These respectively align to Wissenland, Solland, Averland, Stirland, Sylvania, Ostermark, Talabecland, Hochland, Ostland, Reikland, Middenland, Drakwald, Westerland, Nordland, Bretonnia, doesn't exist anymore, Norsca, and two separate Kislev ethnicities.

To make things a little more complicated, the Jutones who inhabited Nordland were assaulted by the conquering Teutogens, so they decided to split up so they wouldn't be overrun. A portion left to the ruins of Sith-Rionnisac in Endal territory and founded Jutonsryk, which would later become Marienburg. A portion also left to enter Western Ostland in the Forest of Shadows. The Jutones who remained became known as the Was Jutones, although that name isn't even used that often. When Sigmar united the Empire, he united the 12 most powerful tribes into the 12 initial provinces, but you might notice that there's more than 12 tribes noted above. Some of them are easy to reconcile. Roppsmen and Ungol inhabited the southern edges of Kislev territory, which was only conquered during Sigismund's time and only for a couple hundred years. The Bretonnii left the Reik Basin through the Grey Mountains and formed independent tribes, a portion of them were conquered to form Sigismund's "Westermark" province but it didn't last long after Gilles united them. The Frikings were destroyed and I'm still not sure if Norsii were always Northmen or they were Pre-Imperial who left for the North after being chased out by Sigmar. The second scenario is presented sometimes when I'm reading these books. The Fennones were only conquered during Sigismund's time, so they can be disregarded.

Now we get into the hard part. Some mentions of Talabecland/Taluten history indicate that they had a very strong grip on the Cherusen and Ostagoth tribes, and one passage says something about them being upset that Sigmar decided the Cherusens would have their own province instead of being part of Talabecland. There's also mention of Talabecland consuming the Ostagoths and expanding their territory into the area that would be known as Kislev's Southern Oblast at the same time as Ostland expanded into pre-Kislev's Western Oblast during Sigismund's time. At that time Ostermark was known as Talabecland's "East March", which is why I think Tabecland's EC is also known as the "Margrave of the Eastern March". Ostermark also is Eastern March in German I think?

So imagine my frustration when there are lines that say Ostermark gained their independence from Talabecland indicating they became subordinate to them at some point, only for some other paragraphs stating that the Ostagoths were one of the founding tribes and formed an initial province. But this doesn't end here, it gets worse.

The Endals were the tribe controlling Westerland, now known as the Wasteland. The Was Jutones were the Jutones that remained in Nordland, and the Jutones were the ones who founded Jutonesryk. Sounds simple right? It's also known that Jutonsryk was only conquered during Sigismund's time and was folded over into Westerland. There are also examples of the Endals being the one of the 12 founding tribes. So this means that Nordland isn't one of the 12 founding provinces, Westerland is right?

No. In most cases Nordland is one of the 12 initial provinces. There's also evidence of Marbad, the leader of the Endals, creating a settlement named Marburg that bears very similar naming scheme to Marienburg, but I don't get it. Did he take control of Jutonsryk at some point? Several times it's been mentioned that the Jutones were the ones who found Sith Rionnsac's ruins and built the first city on top of it, and it was only hundreds of years later that it would be taken over. Marbad was a leader during Sigmar's time. Did he create a different settlement named Marburg in Westerland and when Jutonsryk was taken over they named it Marienburg after him? Why are the Endals always listed as one of the 12 founding tribes if Nordland was an initial province but not Westerland? What's the deal with Ostermark? Is it actually a founding province or did they only pop up later after rebelling against Talabecland? Were they a founding tribe that was conquered by Talabecland and then rebelled or were they always subservient until their rebellion?

This is just a fraction of what I'm struggling with at the moment. I'd love any support in clarifying these confusions.
I kind of love that GW has, by accident or design, managed to create something where historical research feels like actual historical research.
It helps I'm not doing the research myself.
 
As many know, Necromancy is a form of magic wherein the caster manipulates Shyish which in turn manipulates Dhar, and in doing so is able to tap into the power of Dhar without the caster coming into direct contact with it. Where a human directly wielding Dhar will be driven insane in short order, a Necromancer can go many years without going mad, and even then that madness comes from the environmental Dhar that Necromancers tend to surround themselves with, rather than as a direct result of their spellcasting.

A question presents itself: if Necromancers can use one form of magic to manipulate another, can other combinations be achieved?

The answer: Probably. Wild Magic, the magic of Beastmen, is often suspected to be a corruption of Ghur in a similar manner.

Your answer: Definitely. You saw for yourself a Clan Eshin magic-user wielding a combination of Dhar and Ulgu.

Another, safer question: can a combination be achieved that doesn't involve Dhar?

The answer: Possibly, but any misstep might cause Dhar or a miscast, so it would be terribly dangerous. At least, it would be for someone who doesn't already have at least a theoretical grasp on the techniques of a Dhar based magic, which no Magister should ever have. So it would be folly to even try.

Your answer: A significant, thoughtful silence. One that's been lurking in the back of your mind for quite some time.

To make the attempt, you're absolutely sure, would not be a breach of the Articles. It risks the accidental creation of Dhar, but the same could be said of any manipulation of magic. If it does not use Dhar and is not intended to result in it, then it's legal. A success, if reported to others, might raise certain questions that you'd want to be very careful to create plausible answers to, but that's no reason not to make the attempt in the first place.

So with a stack of reference materials and Wolf on the lookout for unexpected visitors, you read up on an alien Wind and ensconce yourself within the protections of your White Tower. You've settled on Ghyran for your first attempt, in part because of pleasant associations, in part because of your hopes the Wind of Life would be the most benign and familiar of the possibilities, in part because if all goes terribly wrong you could blame it on the Seed embedded in your palm. With utter focus you grasp Ulgu with your soul, and instead of shaping it into a familiar form to be projected out onto the world, you try to push it outwards to wrap around a strand of Ghyran.

It is, you quickly discover, rather like trying to catch a live eel in a cat's cradle, if the cat's cradle was also made of eels.

As every Apprentice knows, the Winds repel each other. If that was not the case then there would be no Winds at all, as they would all merge and decay into Dhar shortly after emerging into the world. You had hoped that you could move skilfully enough to encircle and thus control a strand anyway, but when after hours of concentration you finally manage to entrap a strand of Ghyran so it can't slip free from the web you have built around it, its thrashing attempts bring it directly into contact with the Ulgu and a bloom of Dhar forms and begins to spread, slowly but interminably. You expel the Ulgu and activate the protections of the Room of Calamity, and the curdling Winds are drawn out of the room and flushed into the air.

There's no danger in that, you remind yourself. You looked into it when you first built the room. At this height it will be blown away, and if it blows west or east or south it will be one more drop in the oceans of the Badlands or the Dark Lands or Nehekhara, and if it blows north it will be drawn into the Waystone network and be dealt with by the ancient artifice of the Elves. When you learned that the Karak itself is eight enormous Waystones it simplified it even further. Within the hour it will have been captured by one of them and will be on its way to Karaz-a-Karak, where some ancient Runic masterpiece will somehow break it into usable and benign energy.

You repeat the experiment until you're sure there's no happy medium where you can constrict the Ghyran tightly enough for it to be under your control, but loosely enough that it doesn't come into contact with the Ulgu. But it does not react reliably, the way a solid or liquid would always act the same way when presented with the same circumstances. It reacts like a maddened animal, reacting to being cornered with escalating aggression until it either escapes or tears itself apart. Again and again Dhar blooms and is then flushed away, and many days end with a throbbing headache from seeing the beauty of Winds being corrupted into the malevolent substance of destruction.

You abandon your torment of Ghyran in the hopes that it acts like a living being because it is the Wind of Life, and move on to Chamon, hoping that the Wind of metal and logic will act more, well, logically. And it does act differently, but only in the way that it drives itself wild in your grip before another bloom of Dhar confirms a failed experiment: this is more like a roiling boil than a thrashing creature, but the result is the same.

With five more Winds you reach the same conclusion, the only variable being that some Winds require a tighter or looser grip before they are no longer able to slip free. The conclusion is inevitable: the Winds just don't want to be near each other, and if you make them, then they react with escalating chaos until they touch and form Dhar.

Which should be the end of it, but... well, there's no crime in mere speculation, is there? Say you did force them, and a minute amount of Dhar did form, as it has many, many times in the preceding experiments. It would, in time, corrupt both Winds involved. But during that time, the corruptive power of Dhar would counteract the repellent power of the Winds. During that time, if someone acted quickly enough, they could reach through Ulgu to to more directly manipulate the subject Wind. They could shape that energy into a spell, and unleash that spell with enough force to sever the connection, leaving the Dhar with the caster and the spell free to act. That tiny amount of Dhar could then be shaken off by the caster before it corrupts the entire strand of Ulgu, leaving only a trace amount of environmental Dhar and minimal danger to the caster.

It's plausible. Very plausible. The only problem is that unlike your experimentation so far, it would undeniably be a 'sorcery or witchcraft that utilises the wicked powers of Dark Magic'. From there the Articles go straight to Abominable Act, Heretic and Traitor, put to sword and fire immediately.

You've never outright breached the Articles before, at least not by your understanding of them. But the only way to pursue this further would be to change that.

With that conclusion, and with its unspoken question hanging in the air, you encode your notes, lock them securely away, and burn the originals.


- For the record, there were no dicerolls involved with the 'tongs' section. This is the quest-canonical metaphysical answer to the question that was asked.

This tongs question: do we have any concept of whether it might be different if it was divine magic which was serving as the tongs?
The short of it is that I think that if we want to keep investigating this we need to pursue more ranaldism first.
okay never mind.

By what mechanism do wizards' souls usually manipulate magic?
Do we have good enough magesight to analyze how wizard souls normally manipulate magic?
 
Last edited:
This tongs question: do we have any concept of whether it might be different if it was divine magic which was serving as the tongs?
The short of it is that I think that if we want to keep investigating this we need to pursue more ranaldism first.

By what mechanism do wizards' souls usually manipulate magic?
Do we have good enough magesight to analyze how wizard souls normally manipulate magic?
Well, at one point Boney was pretty tired of people asking if Mathilde could cast Divine Magic so he said this:
There is absolutely no possibility of Mathilde ever wielding Divine Magic, at all, under any circumstances, ever.
Boney normally doesn't use super definitive statements like this, so I assume he just wanted to clear the air so people wouldn't keep going "but what if we" forever.
 
Well, at one point Boney was pretty tired of people asking if Mathilde could cast Divine Magic so he said this:

Boney normally doesn't use super definitive statements like this, so I assume he just wanted to clear the air so people wouldn't keep going "but what if we" forever.

We could technically teach the technique to a priest. I mean they could certainly use the power boost of wind magic.
 
We could technically teach the technique to a priest. I mean they could certainly use the power boost of wind magic.
If you found a priest that accepts that what they do is in anyway similar to magic, and if that miracle wielding priests interacts with the energy of their god in the same way a wizard interacts with their wind.

But those are two very big "ifs".
 
So I'm reading several books to get a full understanding of the Empire and cross referencing it with Boney's staatements to try to make sense of things, and one of the things that always confuses me because of all the contradictions between the various books, is the goddamn Endal/Jutone question.
I am really truly pretty sure that this is one of those cases where there just straight up isn't a single canonical answer. Games workshop is as mentioned incredibly uninterested in curating a single unified canon. When source contradict each other, answer A is canon to source A and answer B is canon to source B. If it is ever brought up in another source the answer will be "whichever one the writer on that particular book liked" and that has no binding precedent for the NEXT writer to reference the same subject.
 
If you found a priest that accepts that what they do is in anyway similar to magic, and if that miracle wielding priests interacts with the energy of their god in the same way a wizard interacts with their wind.

But those are two very big "ifs".

Convincing a priest of Ranald should not be that hard given our relationship with Him. The second would have to be tested yeah.
 
I am really truly pretty sure that this is one of those cases where there just straight up isn't a single canonical answer. Games workshop is as mentioned incredibly uninterested in curating a single unified canon. When source contradict each other, answer A is canon to source A and answer B is canon to source B. If it is ever brought up in another source the answer will be "whichever one the writer on that particular book liked" and that has no binding precedent for the NEXT writer to reference the same subject.
The thing is, the sources I'm consulting are both from 2nd Edition WHFRP. You would expect if you're providing several books that directly reference each other (and they do, they tell you go read this book for more details) that they would work with each other to make a unified canon. I can understand "these are separate canons" for the Army Book vs RPG, but I draw the line at books from the same edition of the RPG contradicting each other.

This is made further egregious by the fact that some of the books I'm reading have inconcsistencies in the very same book, not just in different books. Page 12 of Sigmar's heirs says the Merogens were the conquerors of the Drakwald and took control over Carroburg. Page 13 has a table that says Merogens are the ancestors of Wissenland and Thuringians are the ancestors of Drakwald.
 
The thing is, the sources I'm consulting are both from 2nd Edition WHFRP. You would expect if you're providing several books that directly reference each other (and they do, they tell you go read this book for more details) that they would work with each other to make a unified canon. I can understand "these are separate canons" for the Army Book vs RPG, but I draw the line at books from the same edition of the RPG contradicting each other.

This is made further egregious by the fact that some of the books I'm reading have inconcsistencies in the very same book, not just in different books. Page 12 of Sigmar's heirs says the Merogens were the conquerors of the Drakwald and took control over Carroburg. Page 13 has a table that says Merogens are the ancestors of Wissenland and Thuringians are the ancestors of Drakwald.

The answer that Black Library, GW's publishing arm gave us that everything published about the settings (save for rules mechanics which don't need to faithfully reflect the setting just make a good game) is what someone in the setting would write or say. That someone could be wrong, biased, not even trying to tell the literal truth because they're telling a story legend and filling in anachronistic detail to make it fit with their audience's expectations (like Arthurian knights in late medieval plate, etc), or whatever.

Some books are explicitly legends, such as the Warhammer Fantasy Legends series, others we know the IC authors for, such as the Gotrex and Felix books, which are meant to be written by Felix's brother based on what Felix told him, so any section Felix or someone he spoke to didn't witness is probably just him spitballing or inventing to mock his enemies like Thanquol.

Others, we don't even know who the IC author or speaker is.

They're not separate canons, they're what different people, possibly rival scholars in the University of Altdorf, claim to be what happened. The history of the first period of the empire is patchy in places because much knowlege was lost as a result of the plague, skaven invasion, and subsequent civil wars. What happened in the pre-Imperial prehistory before there were written records will be even more debatable.

This means sources need to be interrogated like real historical sources and judged against each other and in their context to decide which to rely on. I believe the general assumption is that they're written from the point of view of an educated person in the Empire, Realms of Sorcery from a Magisters point of view, etc, but that's not universal.
 
Last edited:
This is just a fraction of what I'm struggling with at the moment. I'd love any support in clarifying these confusions.
I've actually asked Boney about the Endal/Juton question, and his response was an in-universe "the answer is lost to the mists of time".
Which version is the most advantageous for the current regime to pretend to believe?

Marienburg is built on the ruins of an Elven trading port that was right on the line between Jutone and Endal territory. At this point there's no telling whether it was Marius of the Jutones or Marbad of the Endals that got there first, or even if one got there and then got conquered by the other. On this side of four separate sackings, a Bretonnian conquest, a plutocratic regime with a vested interest in keeping ancient claims to the land suppressed, and the Cult of Manaan deliberately trying to suppress historical research for some reason, there's no solid answers to be had.
As to the question of Ostermark, I think the best takeaway from it is that Talabecland subjugated Ostermark at various points in history, particularly during the Age of 3 Emperors.
 
I hoped to be able to give a definitive answer, but apparently I must treat this like I'm a historian presenting conflicting pieces of evidence and allowing people to make their conclusions. It would be nice if there was a 2E Marienburg sourcebook to add an addiitonal point of view, but alas, I think there's only a 1E sourcebook for Marienburg.

It's also the majority of what comprises the Marienburg wiki page, so I haven't read it so I wouldn't confuse myself.
 
I hoped to be able to give a definitive answer, but apparently I must treat this like I'm a historian presenting conflicting pieces of evidence and allowing people to make their conclusions. It would be nice if there was a 2E Marienburg sourcebook to add an addiitonal point of view, but alas, I think there's only a 1E sourcebook for Marienburg.

It's also the majority of what comprises the Marienburg wiki page, so I haven't read it so I wouldn't confuse myself.

To make it even more complicated, Sold Down the River was partially updated to 2E with additional material in a web supplement, IIRC.
 
Last edited:
Voting is open
Back
Top