I think our best aplication of AV might be not in direct spellwork but in feeding it to apparitions. they are daemons, so eating raw warp-stuff should be natural to them and we get more bang for buck.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Strengthening the creatureS we're forcefully subjugating and tying to our soul sounds like a very bad idea.
It is a matter of balance. How strong are the chains we are using? Are they just strong enough to bind a single apparition? If yes then I agree, it is a bad idea, but if we can hold stronger apparitions, but no such safe warp gribbles exist then it makes sense to give them some warp juice.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
I suppose. We'll just have to see.
Speaking of apparitions though, I do have to wonder why Rotwyrms are so far down the list of preferences. Sure, Handmaidens and Red Riders are cool, but having a giant shadow worm that can burrow would be awesome as well.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Maybe Mathilde is just being considerate.
Rotwyrm
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
In-character that makes sense, but out of character it's just surprising that the idea was basically glossed over completely. Other types make sense, since they're all either used already, attracted to Ulgu and thus dangerous, or mostly attracted to dark magic and thus would be really hard to find. But Rotwyrms are the only one other than Riders in Red and Handmaidens to not be any of those.
Depends on what I'm using it for. Sure, the Handmaidens would be exceptionally deadly, and the Knights are badass combatants, but eldritch worms made out of shadow or mist coming through the walls—or dropping from trees, if we end up fighting in Laurelorn—to devour you whole? That's the sort of psychological horror Mathilde has put to excessively good use before. They would probably synergize pretty well with Dread Aspect, actually.
I could see vitae acting as some sort of blood infusion for apparition surgery, removing the Steed from the Rider being such, or even Frankensteining together several for a designer apparition. Perhaps you take a Handmaiden and then take a sword from a Red Rider and you combine the Handmaiden and the sword to get an apparition cosplaying as Mathilde, add the horse from the Red Rider and you get the Dämmerlichtreiter.
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- Location
- Utrecht
Maybe we could use av as bait for whatever trap we set for the apparition?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
AV is a lot more than just a bunch of Winds in a liquid packaging, it's the undiluted essence of the Realm Of Magic. I'm pretty sure we'll be able to do more with it than just get Winds out of it. And beyond that, it would tell us more about what magic actually is, at a very fundamental level. Putting aside direct uses of AV itself, the research might well be the magical equivalent of particle physics, the applications of which weren't immediately obvious at the time but then later made possible really quite a lot of modern technology.
I'd go into more detail about the possibilites that have occurred to me and the rest of the thread (of which there are quite a few) but I'm wary of getting into it after Pickle's reminder that people have apparently grown bored of it just from talking about it - you yourself are apparently burnt out on it more than a year later!
On second thought, I don't think it would be constructive to go another round in this argument, that has largely died down.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
Apparitions feed on Winds, or other groupings of magic, including that used to bind them if it's a 'tasty' colour. They are also clearly very magical.
So my default expectation of exposing any Apparition to AV- which containd all the Winds- is that explosive decomposition, followed by feeding on the released wind, leading to getting stronger, while the rest of the Winds do whatever, and probably forming Dhar.
Re: the Ulgu mindset, there's a few things to consider:
From the Important Information threadmark is the following:
Note that it says these are only generalities, and are simply personality traits favoured by the college. And those traits themselves? Restless, Independent, Curious, Inconspicuous, Practical, Diplomatic, and Loyal. And Mathilde is all of those things (although we tend to cheat on the diplomacy thing a lot).
Secondly, Mathilde says this on her date with Pan:
Mystics and Showmen. Now the wind of Ulgu is not mind control, it merely influences who you are, but so does your parents, your culture, your education. And Ulgu wants you to be the "man behind the curtain". It wants you to be the "Ringmaster". It wants you to organise and control and lead, letting the action be taken by someone else. It wants you to be the one in control of the circus.
It can't make you into any of these things, you have to do it yourself—just like making terrifying ethereal assassins. But it does explain why Mathilde took to leading the duckling club like... well, like a duck to water. It was her circus, and she was its ringmaster.
From the Important Information threadmark is the following:
Note that it says these are only generalities, and are simply personality traits favoured by the college. And those traits themselves? Restless, Independent, Curious, Inconspicuous, Practical, Diplomatic, and Loyal. And Mathilde is all of those things (although we tend to cheat on the diplomacy thing a lot).
Secondly, Mathilde says this on her date with Pan:
Mystics and Showmen. Now the wind of Ulgu is not mind control, it merely influences who you are, but so does your parents, your culture, your education. And Ulgu wants you to be the "man behind the curtain". It wants you to be the "Ringmaster". It wants you to organise and control and lead, letting the action be taken by someone else. It wants you to be the one in control of the circus.
It can't make you into any of these things, you have to do it yourself—just like making terrifying ethereal assassins. But it does explain why Mathilde took to leading the duckling club like... well, like a duck to water. It was her circus, and she was its ringmaster.
- Location
- Aotearoa
"Of course not, it's terribly gauche to boast.
No, one leaves that to ones Godly hype man."
Ulgu isn't about control. It's about mystry and ambiguity. It makes showmen in the sense of RL stage magicians, where the entertainment is in trying to puzzle out clever misdirections, and the Ulgu is in misdirecting. It wants you to be the man behind the curtain because there's a curtain, and it would be just as happy with you standing before the curtain so long as someone is behind it (and even happier if the man before the curtain actually directs things, but solely because that's another layer of misdirection and cofusion).
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
An excellent example of someone who embodies that showman aesthetic that isn't Mathilde is Algard himself, Patriarch to the Grey Order. Yes he's secretive and few people know he's the actual Patriarch because he faked his death, but what is more dramatic than a faked death? His Screaming Towers are so extravagant and attention grabbing that Chaos Warbands constantly track them down as a source of knowledge and loot, and his room is full of banners from those that his Tower baited into an ambush. He's just as much of a showman as Mathilde, but his eccentricities are rarely on display because he doesn't attract as much attention, prefering to be lowkey about it.
He's also very... energetic. One would struggle to believe that he's a wise old man with how over the top his mannerisms tend to be. There's a reason the thread took to him so much, he's interesting, not just a boring old dude. Kind of like an older Mathilde.
He's also very... energetic. One would struggle to believe that he's a wise old man with how over the top his mannerisms tend to be. There's a reason the thread took to him so much, he's interesting, not just a boring old dude. Kind of like an older Mathilde.
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Alas the dread fate of paperwork has taken him. What does this mean for poor Mathilde's future?
I previously wanted to see if Ranald could do something like shape a divine servant that we could bind like an Apparition from AV, or make an incredibly weak servant that wouldn't cost him much which we could then feed up with AV.
In terms of near term actions, I still think learning Arcane Khazalid would be very sensible to do before the Waystone network project goes public
In terms of near term actions, I still think learning Arcane Khazalid would be very sensible to do before the Waystone network project goes public
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I think we need to distinguish between the traits favored by the college and those nurtured by the wind. There's definitely a difference, and in a large sense the stuff favored by the college seems designed to check the impulses favored by the wind.
There are, after all, at least three other groups that are heavily ulgu-focused: the shaman of the shadowed of the Kurgan, the shadow warrior elves, and the eshin sorcerers. None of which really have a reputation as showmen or ringmasters, save maybe the skaven.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Mystics and showmanlings?
I'm sure we don't know anyone like that.
I'm sure we don't know anyone like that.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
All this just really makes me want to interact with a Kurgan Shaman of the Shadowed One. Because they would be the kind to take the mental influence of Ulgu and ascribe it an actual will to appease and court. It would show what Ulgu is without a specific pro-social goal that includes being an effective secret police.
Elves usually prize being above the mental influences of the Winds, no? In fact, I would not at all be surprised if Teclis specifically tried to model the Grey College after the Shadow Warriors. As for Shadowed Shamans, what makes you say that they aren't reputed as showmen and ringmasters? The only one we encountered was some dude which we prevented from casting battle magic and who didn't get to do pretty much anything else of note on screen.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I guess I may have been hasty there- I was largely going by the impression that they are not well-known or spotlighted, and so are not showmen or ringmasters. That could simply be that the shaman of the Four are so incredibly overbearing that they don't really get a chance to fill that niche, but it is suggestive.
Don't forget the only shadow elf we've met was that diplomat, and he literally pulled the token out from behind his ear.
Re: Prefect Powerstones.
I just want to be clear, as one of the main wanters of doing the test: I do think its a long shot.
In theory, If making a powerstone is, barring extra steps, just condensing a wind by wrapping it around itself tighter and tighter.
then we should be able to do the same using strong runes of Valaya surrounding the AV until its flouting, and then just slowly bring those runes closer together overtime, increasing the pressure and focusing it to condense.
In theory: Tongs show that other theories are just as likely until tested.
The other theory is that it will collapse/explode under the pressure or that it's solid point is to high to artificially create with the tools we have.
or it doesn't have a solid point, because of magic, not physics.
I just want to be clear, as one of the main wanters of doing the test: I do think its a long shot.
In theory, If making a powerstone is, barring extra steps, just condensing a wind by wrapping it around itself tighter and tighter.
then we should be able to do the same using strong runes of Valaya surrounding the AV until its flouting, and then just slowly bring those runes closer together overtime, increasing the pressure and focusing it to condense.
In theory: Tongs show that other theories are just as likely until tested.
The other theory is that it will collapse/explode under the pressure or that it's solid point is to high to artificially create with the tools we have.
or it doesn't have a solid point, because of magic, not physics.
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- Location
- Utrecht
He made a micro power stone in a second, without Mathilde noticing
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Elves in general are the sort to be very Extra about how they do things.
RE: Shadowmancers, there's also vampires.
Course, the only example vampire I'm aware of that focused on Ulgu was Nyklaus Von Carstein, who transported his castle in a ritual to the Galleon's Graveyard, changed his name to Count Noctilus and tried to rule the seas with an iron grip.