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However the only way to get through our backlog is to get through our backlog. Thus we should be finishing long term projects before starting new long term ones (waystones is a separate concern - as it is our current job).
First AP of Apparation binds one which is instant pay off and further long term research can be put off for being long term research. Altought it probably won't be one or other option in this case since we have a few AP we can probably do both it and AV.
 
The slow, careful parts are all done though - that's my point. I would agree it would be overkill for just the dwarven result, but it's there for all of them!

<Shrug>

I'm expressing an opinion. I'm burnt out on it, and not really interested in the results of any of the next possible steps, so I won't be voting for it.
 
After watching a lore video on Valten, i now almost want an Everchosen to show up, just for a chance to see Valten written by someone who is not, in academic terms, a FUCKING HACK.

Also it would be hilarious to see Meowthilde intersct with some like him.
 
It's not about status, it's about the fact that he's the sole source for other Runelords to recharge their Ancestor Runes, and I don't see a world existing where Thorek isn't taking advantage of that.

He didn't buy exclusivity did he?

Presumably any Runelord can just come to Mathilde to buy AV - not that we'd regularly sell it.

This isn't actually true, they won't make it for other people who they don't trust on our dime, apparently. The Colleges were okay because Matlde is explicitly tied to them IIRC?

They're presumably going to be a lot less strict now that Mathilde got declared a dwarf.

Both actions you referred to previously were straight-up social actions. To my knowledge, helping out a fellow councillor has never resulted in anything more than a headpat.

We did get help from Gunnars with the tower of doom.
 
I'm burnt out on it mostly because of the insistence on doing it the slow, careful, well-documented way made it a slog to get through, especially when the ultimate 'result' was one of the original options. I did not feel like there was payoff. YMMV.
The prior safety actions meant that we could go to Thorek and have it work with only a single action, because all the ground work had been laid. If that wasn't the case, we either wouldn't have gotten Thorek, or we would've had to put in some AP before we got the trade.

Personally, I also found the investigation actions quite interesting to read, but I understand that may not apply to everyone, and I also started to feel like 'I wanna finally do something with this' towards the end. I still feel like that, actually.
 
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For the doom tower, we took "Investigate the possibility of somehow amplifying the Tower with Dwarven runecraft" and rolled a six for the level of awesomeness Kragg was bringing to the table. This resulted in the Rune of Gazul, which it is implied Gunnars reminded Kragg about:
You're reeling from that encounter as you almost run into Kragg and Gunnars. "So," Kragg says, launching straight into conversation and leaving it to any listeners to catch up at their own pace. "Grungni discovered many of the Runes, and Thungni discovered most of the rest. But I've been reminded that it was Gazul that discovered the Runes of Grungni, Valaya, and Grimnir. And, of course, the Rune of Gazul." Gunnars nods in confirmation. "Didn't sit right with me that this masterwork of yours is all about something called 'Burning Shadows' but there's no actual fire, and since you're a fan of swords, I decided there was no better fire than that of Gazul's burning sword."

"As far as I understand, it shouldn't interfere with the workings of your magic," Gunnars says. "Zharrvengryn is not of normal fire. It consumes light, rather than emitting it."
We undoubtedly wouldn't have gotten that if we hadn't rolled a six; however, the counterfactual universe in which we had not spent a personal AP on T20 helping Gunnars with his task is not available to us, and so we do not know if we would have gotten something less kickass if we'd rolled a six but didn't have that history with him. My knee-jerk instinct is "no" because Gunnars was an established character already as a result of the K8P expedition, so the Rune of Gazul would still probably be in the mix, but that's purely speculative.

Anyway, the AV tree that I see remaining has three branches, since we've already finished Dwarven Runecraft:
  • Dwarven Runecraft
  • Teclisean Magic
  • Divine Magic
  • Big Booms
Of these, I am incredibly uninterested in Big Booms, I am very interested in pursuing Divine Magic research, and Teclisean Magic is something that I'm happy to slowroll. But I do want to return to chipping away at it when we have the opportunity to do personal research. Will that be next turn? Who knows? I'm sympathetic to the arguments of "start strong" for our new job, and a lot depends on our half-action setup (which Boney has said will change) and how much we can leverage our WEBMAT collaborators. So I'd caution the thread about drawing lines in the sand and getting locked-in on something ahead of time. We're at a big transition point, and there are too many unknowns to chart a course with confidence.
 
For the doom tower, we took "Investigate the possibility of somehow amplifying the Tower with Dwarven runecraft" and rolled a six for the level of awesomeness Kragg was bringing to the table. This resulted in the Rune of Gazul, which it is implied Gunnars reminded Kragg about:

We undoubtedly wouldn't have gotten that if we hadn't rolled a six; however, the counterfactual universe in which we had not spent a personal AP on T20 helping Gunnars with his task is not available to us, and so we do not know if we would have gotten something less kickass if we'd rolled a six but didn't have that history with him. My knee-jerk instinct is "no" because Gunnars was an established character already as a result of the K8P expedition, so the Rune of Gazul would still probably be in the mix, but that's purely speculative.

Anyway, the AV tree that I see remaining has three branches, since we've already finished Dwarven Runecraft:
  • Dwarven Runecraft
  • Teclisean Magic
  • Divine Magic
  • Big Booms
Of these, I am incredibly uninterested in Big Booms, I am very interested in pursuing Divine Magic research, and Teclisean Magic is something that I'm happy to slowroll. But I do want to return to chipping away at it when we have the opportunity to do personal research. Will that be next turn? Who knows? I'm sympathetic to the arguments of "start strong" for our new job, and a lot depends on our half-action setup (which Boney has said will change) and how much we can leverage our WEBMAT collaborators. So I'd caution the thread about drawing lines in the sand and getting locked-in on something ahead of time. We're at a big transition point, and there are too many unknowns to chart a course with confidence.
If we defer AV for things that will help with our new job, I'll be a bit disappointed. We decided to defer it until after Vlag because it wasn't relevant to a trip to the Chaos Wastes, and this would turn that from a single delay to a potentially indefinite holding pattern, because blue-skies research is almost never going to be obviously relevant to what we're already doing, because we can't know the result ahead of time.

That being said, if we delay for that reason, I'll understand the logic. If we delay to start an entirely unrelated long research project instead, I'll be a bit peeved.
 
They are desperate elves, as witness the fact that they allied with the Ulricans and are allowing us access to their long held lore. i think they have made the case of urgency pretty clear in their deeds. More to the point I do not think it is a good look to go into your first day on a job with the mentality of 'well they are normally pretty methodical so we should not do our utmost to make a good impression'. The ball is in our court as the employee and we will be judged by how we play it.
We are not an employee. We are a project leader and business/research partner. Laurelorn is not our boss, they are our host. If they don't like us that doesn't mean someone else gets to do the Waystone thing. It means that the Waystone thing gets done somewhere else by us.
 
We are not an employee. We are a project leader and business/research partner. Laurelorn is not our boss, they are our host. If they don't like us that doesn't mean someone else gets to do the Waystone thing. It means that the Waystone thing gets done somewhere else by us.

Yes I'm sure that is the mentality the sovereign queen of the elf woods is going into this. Her seeing Mathilde as partner is dubious at best, it is the dwarfs she cares about right now not use. To her a human mage will look like a toddler... a toddler with drills for hands.
 
Yes I'm sure that is the mentality the sovereign queen of the elf woods is going into this. Her seeing Mathilde as partner is dubious at best, it is the dwarfs she cares about right now not use. To her a human mage will look like a toddler... a toddler with drills for hands.
"What have you got there..."
"A runic greatsword!"
"NO!"

... hmm. Doesn't work quite as well as the original.
 
Yes I'm sure that is the mentality the sovereign queen of the elf woods is going into this. Her seeing Mathilde as partner is dubious at best, it is the dwarfs she cares about right now not use. To her a human mage will look like a toddler... a toddler with drills for hands.
This human just hand-drilled into hell to pull out a dwarf hold. So at the very least pretending to respect the drill handed toddler would seem to be the low cost maneuver, however much it might grate.
 
Yes I'm sure that is the mentality the sovereign queen of the elf woods is going into this. Her seeing Mathilde as partner is dubious at best, it is the dwarfs she cares about right now not use. To her a human mage will look like a toddler... a toddler with drills for hands.
And you think that the Elves aren't smart enough to know that they would have absolutely no chance of working with the Dwarfs if not for Mathilde? Without Mathilde there are no Dwarfs working with Elves.
 
This human just hand-drilled into hell to pull out a dwarf hold. So at the very least pretending to respect the drill handed toddler would seem to be the low cost maneuver, however much it might grate.

They are former isolationists that barely know where Vlag is. I doubt they would be too impressed by third hand tales or us boasting

And you think that the Elves aren't smart enough to know that they would have absolutely no chance of working with the Dwarfs if not for Mathilde? Without Mathilde there are no Dwarfs working with Elves.

Keep in mind we do not know what the dwarfs actually know about Waystones. They could be clueless, the only reason the elves think they know stuff is a misunderstanding with the crown. When/if that comes out we are going to have to show our work.
 
So an all-Winds powerstone, the current leading hypothesis for what subjecting AV to powerstone creation methods will do, is pretty much exactly what we want for a Waystone?
Well, the leading optimistic hypothesis - I remember a lot of resistance to the idea because people thought it would just explode into Winds as soon as we poked it that way.

He didn't buy exclusivity did he?

Presumably any Runelord can just come to Mathilde to buy AV - not that we'd regularly sell it.
Exclusivity wasn't an explicit part of the deal, but is pretty implicit in the fact that it's based off of using Suspicious Demon Goo provided by the local zhufokri. I remember a Boney statement along the lines of the other runelords knowing they really wouldn't like the details of how it's done, but also don't like waiting a hundred years so they have Thorek swear to replace anything damaged or destroyed and then carefully avoid learning more.

Yes I'm sure that is the mentality the sovereign queen of the elf woods is going into this. Her seeing Mathilde as partner is dubious at best, it is the dwarfs she cares about right now not use. To her a human mage will look like a toddler... a toddler with drills for hands.
Sure, but you don't exactly expect much from a toddler regardless of drill hands - a lack of immediate results is just as likely to be chalked up to the task actually being that hard (the elves already tried it and only managed a knockoff) or humans just not being all that good than blamed on Mathilde not putting in enough time and effort.
 
Sure, but you don't exactly expect much from a toddler regardless of drill hands - a lack of immediate results is just as likely to be chalked up to the task actually being that hard (the elves already tried it and only managed a knockoff) or humans just not being all that good than blamed on Mathilde not putting in enough time and effort.

Well yes, but they do not expect her to solve the problem with her own skills, they expect her to get dwarfs on it.
 
That being said, if we delay for that reason, I'll understand the logic. If we delay to start an entirely unrelated long research project instead, I'll be a bit peeved.
How about if we delay to do something we know will have immediate results, like windherding enchantments?

It's literally one AP [and some favour] to have something that breaks Teclisian theory over its knee, and cause for another lecture tour (Windherding is a skill - we can teach it).
 
How about if we delay to do something we know will have immediate results, like windherding enchantments?

It's literally one AP [and some favour] to have something that breaks Teclisian theory over its knee, and cause for another lecture tour (Windherding is a skill - we can teach it).

I would not say it breaks the theory. It is a matter of degree not of kind. The Eye of Gazul uses magics of various winds to serve its function, these magics are separated in such a way as will not create Dhar. Windherding is the skill of doing that but in a much smaller space.
 
I would not say it breaks the theory. It is a matter of degree not of kind. The Eye of Gazul uses magics of various winds to serve its function, these magics are separated in such a way as will not create Dhar. Windherding is the skill of doing that but in a much smaller space.
Windherding allows things like the Dammerlichtreiter thurible that uses Ulgu mist to carry a Shyish spell further and spread it more widely - or throwing shadow knives imbued with Aqshy so that after they go through armour they then explode. It goes significantly beyond just having two spells next to each other, they can become outright interwoven.

The Eye of Gazul only interweaves divine and wind, not wind and wind, so it doesn't yet demonstrate the possibilities of true windherding.

EDIT: Switched from something probably possible to two confirmed things
 
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Windherding allows things like a version of Burning Shadows that uses the Ulgu to transmit Aqshy that literally sets people alight. It goes significantly beyond just having two spells next to each other, they can become outright interwoven.

The Eye of Gazul only interweaves divine and wind, not wind and wind, so it doesn't yet demonstrate the possibilities of true windherding.

The way it was described was that it was like the eye but miniaturized from what I recall. Also yes the eye does use multiple winds. It uses the Red wind to make light at night and the Grey to cast shadows from it. Interactions like this are what served as the basis of Windherding.
 
The way it was described was that it was like the eye but miniaturized from what I recall. Also yes the eye does use multiple winds. It uses the Red wind to make light at night and the Grey to cast shadows from it. Interactions like this are what served as the basis of Windherding.
That was the original description, but we've run a lot of possibilities past Boney since, and it's been confirmed that interweaving spells is within its realms of possibility.

The Eye uses spells seperately - Aqshy creates a flame, which makes mundane light, which makes mundane shadow, that Burning Shadow can act upon.

The Dammerlichtreiter Thurible uses spells together; the mist is being made by Ulgu - making it magical mist - and then acts as a conduit for the Shyish.
 
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