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I do wonder who of the bretonnians killed the death hag and her dragon? Was it jaqueline? Cause that is a great feat
Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
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Jesus, the elves of the war of vengances were dicks
This is imo where Doylist/Watsonian distinction comes into play. We, the players, know that our dice were crap and that with better rolls we could have killed that critter. But our characters can not see the dice. As far as they are concerned, the biggest (well, the second biggest, the biggest being Freddy& co being left stranded on the ark) L we took in otherwise glorious victory being our navy and artillery taking massive losses. And that Dragon was a big part of that. All while our shooters best efforts were ultimately unable to stop him. So trying to come up with a better solution, especially for the navy, which generally doesn't have heavy flyers or Ogre ranged units on board makes sense.
Massgamer
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Even the dragons knew the high elves were in the wrong for that conflict, lol.
pucflek
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Dragons really kinda got the short end of the staff there. IIRC, at least some dragons were on fairly friendly terms with dwarves. Its got to suck having to pick sides like that.
I'm aware. That's why I was offering up more solutions? Ones that are, thanks to Warhammer, a bit easier to grasp for than going after advanced technologies or otherwise. Magic, I mean. Besides which, the fleet was also getting savages by the Black Ark's defenses, which was always going to be an incredibly painful proposition barring a truly incredible set of rolls. But I didn't see anyone wondering about stationing an elite ogre archer onto the ships as a much faster aiming and potentially upscaled artillery piece with expensive enhanced equipment on the ships either. Trying to fund research and development and maintain newer cannons is expensive, but so would an ogre crew member be. Same for thunderbringers potentially getting different or enhanced ammo. Expensive, yes, but no solution here is cheap.
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I mean, again if you go by the novels, so were very much the dwarfs.
For an example after the caravan attacks, while the High King's ambassador is still on his way to Lothern, his own son Snorri Halfhand flies off the handle and leads a dwarf army to sack and raze the elven colony of Kor Vanaeth because he wants to prove himself and earn glory in battle, burning it to the stone and slaughtering thousands of innocent elves.
And this was specifically before Caledor II shaved the ambassador's beard; in fact it is what causes the famous incident, as Caledor II is enraged that the dwarfs were simultaneously demanding reparations and attacking his people.
Of course the beardshaving then outrages the dwarfs in turn who sack more colonies, and the elves retaliate, which begets yet more retaliation, and it's just an endlessly escalating spiral where both sides feel justified in committing ever more warcrimes and resorting to ever more questionable tactics, because they think that the other side started it all.
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Is it possible to combine technology and magic like we did during the Gruber disaster? but with gold ones instead of sigmarite priests and how feasible are the mechanical beasts? with the help of magic, of course
Wasn't there a question about Ogre crews on ships that was shot down because of logistical issues?
Generally, a single ogre just acting as a marine or sailor would not be worth the expense for a wider naval doctrine. IIRC that was what was being discussed at the time. Now, individual ogres can certainly venture around the world on ships. They just either have to be threatening and strong enough to be allowed to eat parts of the crew on the way to their destinations, prove their worth in battering the targets of the ship as they board them (pirates), or pay their way in some fashion.
But we're moving away from that idea now, and envisioning, instead, a single ogre who's position is not merely beater or sailor, but actual mobile weapon piece. With faster rotating speed, re-arming, and wielding of bolts with their super arbalests.
I'm not sure if you meant magical beasts like pegasi, demigryphs, gryphons, or otherwise, or if you're actually talking about the mechanical creations of the Engineering College in canon. The latter involved no magic at all, no matter what the wizards might try to tell you, probably. Just bottled lightning and lots of springs and gears and cranks.
Definitely the latter, and even if they were created without magic, ours may be with it. If you agree, I can present lots of ideas. Do you want to?
*Smack!*
"This here is Dugg Birdsnatcher Boatsinker! He serves as our master of the haulers, back up artilleryman, and Manaan-bless us all when it happens, part of the ship's emergency propulsion.
Respect the big guy, because there's a lot of bigger things out there that; even with our big cannons, just need help killing!"
Also cause adding an ogre crew would warrant a need of a significant overhaul in the already weighted tolerances of a fully loaded Greatship.
Aside from weight/water displacement issues- current Ostland boats would need to account for the space requirements for an ogre crew to move/ crew about.
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pucflek
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Find out if there are any cork trees or some shit to make life vests, because i am pretty sure that Ogres are far too muscular to not sink, despite also being very fat (which iirc should make one float).
I know that shipwrecked sailors generally have no chance whatsoever anyway unless there is a ship nearby, but it would be nice to have at least an illusion of it before trying to upscale a ship for ogre presence.
(Another thing that is fairly weird is that there are no Ogres in lore that are after really big sea beast. We know that they respect giant-wrestling, but you would think that the man-eaters would bring knowledge of sea beasts so large they could compare to Sky-Titans themselves and that this would propel an age of exploration for the race and it just... doesn´t. I think it would be fairly funny development and its a shame that its not).
I know that shipwrecked sailors generally have no chance whatsoever anyway unless there is a ship nearby, but it would be nice to have at least an illusion of it before trying to upscale a ship for ogre presence.
(Another thing that is fairly weird is that there are no Ogres in lore that are after really big sea beast. We know that they respect giant-wrestling, but you would think that the man-eaters would bring knowledge of sea beasts so large they could compare to Sky-Titans themselves and that this would propel an age of exploration for the race and it just... doesn´t. I think it would be fairly funny development and its a shame that its not).
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I think it's partially due to Maw Ogre's limited tech to give em any headway towards the Deep Oceans of Mallus where they can find a big enough beastie- let alone come back from said expeditions with anyone left alive to tell the tale.
That's not even touching the cannibalism going on from days on deck and Maw societal structure hamstringing any long term expedition out at sea.
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iirc, didn't one of the sourcebooks have Caeldor tell the dwarves the Dark Elves were a thing pre-beard shave only for them to go "an elgi is an elgi"?
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Z000
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yeah basically, the Dwarf were being an ass about it, honestly, i think Malekith specifically pick to mess with these Dwarf because he know these specific one won't care about faction division and will mess thing up the most
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Basically, there's two versions of how the war happened, the way its told in the armybooks and the way its told in the novels.
In the armybooks, the elves specifically warned the dwarfs about the Druchii after the Sundering, but the dwarfs didn't believe them, and when they attacked the caravans they accused the Asur, which then led to Caledor II shaving the ambassador.
In the novels the elves didn't tell the dwarfs about the Druchii until after the caravan attacks, but Snorri Halfhand struck the first blow leading to the beardshaving.
Either way, both sides are very much to blame.
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Restalaan
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Eh, stationing and distributing the elite ogre archers on top of ships at the time seemed risky and we wanted to focus more on the defense where they can focus fire. Didnt worked out but that is how the dice rolled.
I suppose we can take options for ogre archers/cannoners to be navy seamen in the future?
At least on the greatships, otherwise, we wpuld need to fashion ships for ogres proportions.
@torroar Is it possible for us to research or establish an ogre/human/halfling crew? Or more ogres dedicating themselves to Manaan that they can essentially be a small navy group (like our current ogre army bulls/thunderbringers/crushers?)
I suppose we can take options for ogre archers/cannoners to be navy seamen in the future?
At least on the greatships, otherwise, we wpuld need to fashion ships for ogres proportions.
@torroar Is it possible for us to research or establish an ogre/human/halfling crew? Or more ogres dedicating themselves to Manaan that they can essentially be a small navy group (like our current ogre army bulls/thunderbringers/crushers?)
Genon
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It's the Blood of Thungni and those whose blood he carries (the older Ancestor Gods) that's required for that.
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Also, that's a huge secret that the dwarfs would never give, even if it was possible for humans to learn it. Like, seriously, sharing secrets of runesmithing would be an even bigger transgression than the engineering stuff Valma shared with us.
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OGRE GUTSTRAP BOWS!
So, it's a bit difficult to say thanks to the radically strange timeline of technological advancement in Warhammer. Going by some novels, the dwarfs appear to have gatling guns at some point near the End Times, I believe. They also have their gyrocopters. The flying wing-suits are something that was created, wholecloth, by a some rando, were lied about being invented by the brilliant engineer Da Vinci expy of Warhammer, things like the Steam Tanks, and so on. But the Empire had steam tanks for many, many, many centuries, and it was not until Karl Franz's time that the clockwork lightning powered steam horse was actually invented.
Now, am I saying that such things are impossible to create at all in the current 'day' of DoDA's timeline?
Not at all.
But it's a difficult game to play between 'just make the characters have THIS specific idea' and 'inspiration striking' you understand? I can accept many ideas, but implementing them is another question altogether.
I could see a Piety action about increasing Manann worship across the coast as a respect for Magdha and what the Cult of Manann did to damage the Arks and all that. I could also see a Stewardship action built around equalizing and improving halfling and ogre economic prospects, wage stuff, things like that, which could naturally lead to an increased population for Salkalten - which, in turn, would lead to increased halfling/ogre population on the coast. Now, for the record, you actually already have a number of ogre stevedores on the docks, but other than occasionally listening to a priest preach, there has not yet been a concerted effort made to actually convert or proselytize to the ogres of the Ostland coast or the Nordland coast for that matter about Manann. Is it possible, though? Yes.
The others largely answered this, but as far as I know, it was a 1ED only quest, back I think when dwarfs actually had some magic, where...I believe...there was a Gold Wizard who had finally earned the right to begin possibly learning runecrafting from the dwarfs. And then he died? IIRC? Either way, it's more a thing of needing some of the natural aspects of the dwarfs to really do it.
In truth, capturing and trapping magic is not dwarf-specific, but the dwarfs are the most solid at it with their runes. But, at the same time, human casters are capable of their own runes. As are the greenskins, even. And Chaos. But magical runes, and Dwarf Runes are kind of similar but distinct. They're glowing letter-ish shapes or symbols, and they glow, and they are indicative or confer certain effects.
For instance, as far as IIRC, Felix Jaeger's sword, the anti-dragon one, the one that is really good, was not made by dwarfs, but by wizards and priests of the Empire making a really good sword. And it has runes too, but, like, Gold Wizard/Imperial Wizard magic runes on it. And it helped Felix go kill a dragon that one time.
So while the Empire disdained magic in large part thanks to dwarf influence, they couldn't actually teach the Empire the 'safe' method of handling magic, because, well, they really can't for the most part.
He swore an Oath and sealed with Bugman's New.
Without Freddy, There'd be no Bugman's New, If you don't keep your oath to freddy it is terrifyingly horrifically such that you might be taken off of the list of Approved buyers of Bugman's.
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