MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
The southerner focused Imperial rumor mill missed another invention? Color me surprised.
Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
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That does not mean the southerners do not know the Titan Cannon exists. My point is that the Titan Cannon is not much more than a Big Cannon exclusive to Ostland, and is not a "marvel of engineering".
Edit: A effective big cannon, but still... BIG cannon.
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It's been a while but I just want you to know that you 100% have my total support in this matter and I for one approve of your resolution to not reveal such a blatant example of OOC information the main character could not possibly know.
In all likelihood, not even the dwarven admirals commanding the Barak Varr expeditionary fleet themselves know exactly when they will or will not arrive.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Do you understand that "big cannon" an extreme oversimplification, the fact it doesn't explode with the amount of gunpowder it uses is notable by itself, the fact is rifled make so it can end a sige way beyond normal artillery range, so Yes is That impresive. Also unlike the vapor tank its limits on production are more due of how much material and space it requires than the amount of master engenieers you need to upkeep it so yes we could sell the things, it's just not economically viable to do it since it ties so much of production.
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End a Siege? Salkalten saw Titan Cannon action, and the Black Ark siege on Salkalten did not get ended singlehandedly by the Titan Cannons. BIG cannon is BIG cannon, not something that decisively handles the war. Imperial Wizards are more versatile. Or invest in the humble repeating crossbow, a Nuln original.
The original Titan Cannon had the technology, Ostland reverse engineered the tech. Not really amazing when the working model is right there,it is known Ostland had access to a dwarf teacher, and big stuff is fairly common all around the Old World. Leonardo's towers for example, or big enormous impractical statues. I honestly would not be surprised if the tech to handle a massive amount of gunpowder in something "Titan Cannon" size does in fact exist in the Empire of Man outside of Ostland's school.
No, we cannot sell the things. The people we sell the things too would need to buy our special ammo, which hurts the customer. As not only do they need the specialists to man the things, they also need to keep paying Ostland to produce the special ammo. Think of the customer!
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Massgamer
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Curious, do dwarfs use repeating crossbows at all? Or is that considered radical and newfangled tech to most of Engineering guild at this time?
Can totally see them making repeating bolt throwers or even grudge throwers after all, but likely something that has been 'in testing' for centuries if not millennia.
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Throw in Skaven and suddenly anything that could be questionable is questionable. Amusing in a way.
The Titan Cannon has its uses and its applications and its niche. And it being reverse-engineered to begin with is impressive. Just because you have a sample of a thing, after all, does not mean that it is free and just assumed that you can successfully reverse-engineer it; you still gotta do the legwork and you still need impressive and skilled people to be able to do the job.
We might not be able to sell it everywhere -- because it's hard to supply with specific ammo -- but if it's good at what it does? Well, then it's good for Ostland to use in war. It not being easily spread to the rest of the Empire doesn't make it bad, it just makes it more specialized as a tool of war, or more limited in how its used.
Sometimes things are just like that; you can't easily spread it everywhere, or apply it to every niche, or always make it economical or practical. (Or at least not yet. Sometimes maybe not at all, who knows.)
But that's not the only mark of whether a thing is 'good' or 'useful' though.
Is the Titan Cannon useful to Ostland? Does Ostland use it well? Is the Titan Cannon worth it for what Ostland put into it? If not, then is the Titan Cannon at least something that revealed engineering knowledge and lessons to those working on it? Did the crews working on it gain new and valuable experience with working on large or new weapons, and thus perhaps they might turn that knowledge and experience into figuring out other weapons systems? Does the Titan Cannon do a better job at something that other, smaller, cannons don't do as great a job at? Is the Titan Cannon a generally impressive piece of work?
The answer's probably 'yes' to at least some of those.
If you want to base all your reasoning on "Well, the rumor mill didn't call it a marvel, so..." well okay. The rumor mill is the rumor mill. Some parts of it are true, some parts of it are slanted... ... and a whole lot of it is "What got noticed? What got talked about?"
Switching to the multi-shot crossbow thing though...
... I wonder if the reloading system for that crossbow could potentially be used to develop, uh, the type of reloading systems that WW2 era ship cannons had?
Er, I mean, in a very far off distance. Maybe as the grandfather of the system that would eventually allow for greater/better cannon or artillery reloading systems.
But, I'm wondering if somebody got ahold of the crossbows systems, if they might get inspired in trying to adapt the system to applying to artillery or cannons?
The artillery or cannons themselves would have to be hella different to begin with of course. And maybe the cannonballs themselves too; being less ball and more, uh, missile or whatever the right classification is. And then on top of that, then you'd need to work in a reload system too -- and the cannon itself would have to be big enough for it to apply...
... Actually, maybe it would be better to look at rifles rather than artillery or cannon for this?
Taking the crossbow reloading thing, and seeing if you can create a refile that uses a reloading mechanism like that?
Apologies as I don't know whatever words or tech types it'd be. Breechloading or matchlock or wheellock or whatever the hell. It's all just rifle to me. I think the word I'm looking for might be "bolt-action" or magazines maybe?
Might be 20 years way. Might be 40 or 60. Might be more.
Might not even be able to be adapted at all!
But I'm interested in wondering whether we might wind up with Lee-Enfield rifles in a hundred years or something, because of those crossbows.
We might not be able to sell it everywhere -- because it's hard to supply with specific ammo -- but if it's good at what it does? Well, then it's good for Ostland to use in war. It not being easily spread to the rest of the Empire doesn't make it bad, it just makes it more specialized as a tool of war, or more limited in how its used.
Sometimes things are just like that; you can't easily spread it everywhere, or apply it to every niche, or always make it economical or practical. (Or at least not yet. Sometimes maybe not at all, who knows.)
But that's not the only mark of whether a thing is 'good' or 'useful' though.
Is the Titan Cannon useful to Ostland? Does Ostland use it well? Is the Titan Cannon worth it for what Ostland put into it? If not, then is the Titan Cannon at least something that revealed engineering knowledge and lessons to those working on it? Did the crews working on it gain new and valuable experience with working on large or new weapons, and thus perhaps they might turn that knowledge and experience into figuring out other weapons systems? Does the Titan Cannon do a better job at something that other, smaller, cannons don't do as great a job at? Is the Titan Cannon a generally impressive piece of work?
The answer's probably 'yes' to at least some of those.
If you want to base all your reasoning on "Well, the rumor mill didn't call it a marvel, so..." well okay. The rumor mill is the rumor mill. Some parts of it are true, some parts of it are slanted... ... and a whole lot of it is "What got noticed? What got talked about?"
Switching to the multi-shot crossbow thing though...
... I wonder if the reloading system for that crossbow could potentially be used to develop, uh, the type of reloading systems that WW2 era ship cannons had?
Er, I mean, in a very far off distance. Maybe as the grandfather of the system that would eventually allow for greater/better cannon or artillery reloading systems.
But, I'm wondering if somebody got ahold of the crossbows systems, if they might get inspired in trying to adapt the system to applying to artillery or cannons?
The artillery or cannons themselves would have to be hella different to begin with of course. And maybe the cannonballs themselves too; being less ball and more, uh, missile or whatever the right classification is. And then on top of that, then you'd need to work in a reload system too -- and the cannon itself would have to be big enough for it to apply...
... Actually, maybe it would be better to look at rifles rather than artillery or cannon for this?
Taking the crossbow reloading thing, and seeing if you can create a refile that uses a reloading mechanism like that?
Apologies as I don't know whatever words or tech types it'd be. Breechloading or matchlock or wheellock or whatever the hell. It's all just rifle to me. I think the word I'm looking for might be "bolt-action" or magazines maybe?
Might be 20 years way. Might be 40 or 60. Might be more.
Might not even be able to be adapted at all!
But I'm interested in wondering whether we might wind up with Lee-Enfield rifles in a hundred years or something, because of those crossbows.
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Given that it basically looks to everyone who doesn't speak elvish like they are running away after getting shot up by our cannons, yeah. It's probably going to change after this.
Didn't shoot up the Arc, which likely was a bit silly an expectation on our part, but damn if it didn't mow down these delves.
I'm generally with Marvin on the issue though not to the same extent. If you only compare repeating crossbows and the Titan Canon, then yeah, sure. But that's not all that came out of Ostland and is in fact being sold to and used by other provinces and countries. Our guns are stable enough to be used and soread throughout the north. We designed new cannons that found their way into several armies. We created mines, Doomspheres and Deathspinners, that will shortly be used by Averland during the war against the Greenskins.
Nuln might be more traditional and standardized, but that doesn't mean that Ostland somehow has no safety standards. Our creations are spreading and are reliable. Just completly different from Nuln and that's what has them up in arms. The fact that we are actually threatening their position. The Vapor Tank was just the last nail in the coffin.
A coffin they might be able to break out off, but it's honestly not looking so hot. Their prestige still carries them, but fow how long? 10 years? 20?
This is similar to other nobles discrediting Freddy. It doesn't work if you don't manage anything yourself to prove your own worth.
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Restalaan
What do you mean i am not a real cowboy?
Honestly, out of all our inventions, i am frankly shock not many are purchasing our dash cannon. That is prob the most practical and versatile weapon.
On that note as well, we prob should do more and upgrads our dash cannon to make it so we can equip a medium cannon and swivel feature but maintain the lightness of it.
On that note as well, we prob should do more and upgrads our dash cannon to make it so we can equip a medium cannon and swivel feature but maintain the lightness of it.
But you are though. You are selling them.
It just says cannon sales, because I refuse to break down the minutiae of which province is getting how many Great Cannons and Dash Cannons each army/noble/barony/etc. specifically is getting.
It just says cannon sales, because I refuse to break down the minutiae of which province is getting how many Great Cannons and Dash Cannons each army/noble/barony/etc. specifically is getting.
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A good flintlock is simple, cheap and reliable. It takes a lot of boring, iterative optimisation to get there from merely simple and still more to get to mass producible while keeping those qualities. In short, it's a Nuln sort of gun to invent.
Now the wheellock, that's an Ostland School of (Drunken) Engineering gun! More moving parts! A spinny bit! Lots of sparks! The version our engineers come up in a fit of inspiration and dwarf trained craft skills will work better than an early version flintlock.
It will be some decades after they both appear before the flintlock is unequivocally better and by that point the designs will have spread enough that our factories will barely get sued at all when they switch over. Our crazy engineers will be working on breach loaders and repeaters rather than the lock at that point.
When some mad alchemist unlocks the chemistry of the percussion cap I expect Ostland to be all over that research - but that's a technology beyond the scope of a Warhammer quest.
Now the wheellock, that's an Ostland School of (Drunken) Engineering gun! More moving parts! A spinny bit! Lots of sparks! The version our engineers come up in a fit of inspiration and dwarf trained craft skills will work better than an early version flintlock.
It will be some decades after they both appear before the flintlock is unequivocally better and by that point the designs will have spread enough that our factories will barely get sued at all when they switch over. Our crazy engineers will be working on breach loaders and repeaters rather than the lock at that point.
When some mad alchemist unlocks the chemistry of the percussion cap I expect Ostland to be all over that research - but that's a technology beyond the scope of a Warhammer quest.
Kinda hard to throw them properly over the big wide tall walls. The ranged troops that were able to fire over them, the archers/crossbowmen, had were doing that instead because they had better chances of hitting compared to throwing Hohenzollern cocktails. The ones on the walls were a bit busy doing the same. Grenadiers were also being kept back, because they're quasi short-range ranged troops.
So that sort of thing is more likely to show up now that an advance is being made past the walls.
So that sort of thing is more likely to show up now that an advance is being made past the walls.
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Coo-well.
Just as well, if we'd been using them already they'd probably know what to expect and counter.
I'll see your 300 scene and raise you another, the Persian grenadiers being countered by well placed shields.
Or something like that.
Just as well, if we'd been using them already they'd probably know what to expect and counter.
I'll see your 300 scene and raise you another, the Persian grenadiers being countered by well placed shields.
Or something like that.
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Massgamer
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Fair enough.
Should sell our more exotic weapons/gear though if possible like doom discs, flying machines, spheres/spinners, etc and make that fall under 'exotic' weapons sales.
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We are. Averland has been getting pride of pick for a looong time.
Massgamer
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I know, I'm just saying spread it out more to other provinces in general who are willing to pay for it.
Goodness knows that after waaagh is hopefully defeated Averland won't need that contract anymore.
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Karak Kadrin was interested in creating their own Deathspinners iirc. Those are a bit heretical by dwarven standards, but Boomdiscs? Can't think of a single invention more fitting for the Dwarfs. Provided they don't have anything similar.
But imagine Dwarf Miners and Rangers with actual mines. Will certainly cover for their lack of cavalry somewhat and counter/funnel/ward off enemy cav.
One can only hope that they will be used effectively at the Everpeak. Higher chance fir the Dwarfs getting around to make their own.
But imagine Dwarf Miners and Rangers with actual mines. Will certainly cover for their lack of cavalry somewhat and counter/funnel/ward off enemy cav.
One can only hope that they will be used effectively at the Everpeak. Higher chance fir the Dwarfs getting around to make their own.
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i think that tech is far too advanced for the scope(and feel) of the quest but what about a repeating ballista even one that could self cock it's self so all you have to do is add the bolt would be very fast firing compared to it's gunpowder cousins. we even have some reaper bolt throwers to study as well now
We are already selling to everyone who is interested though. The remaining provinces aren't buying because they have prior contracts with Nuln, are not interested, or hate Frederick's guts.
The market is saturated right now.
Elector counts/ provinces that hate Frederick: Gunthar (Middenland), Adolf Fuerbach (Talabecland), The ruling council of Marienburg, Jax Starbrook (The Moot), Hans Ludenhof (Hochland).
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- Germany
I have to heavily disagree on Hochland. While there's a traditional enmity between the provinces, the people still remember Frederick and the Army of Ostland saving them before the Battle of Three Armies. Ludenhof himself is indifferent in regards to absolutely everything and anything as far as we know and, whilst annoying us with his inactivity, hasn't actually done anything against us.
On the contrary. His military representative is on amicable terms with Frederick. Also, torroar just posted it:
Hochland is less militarized than our fellow Trident members or Kislev, but it is buying from us.
Also, the market is about to change significantly once the Beasttide hits.
lancelot
Completely worth it
Please tell me the egg gets handed off to someone NOT charging into battle where we're likely to lose it? I mean our greatswords don't tend to last long in the fights we get into, so that is not a safe place for a priceless egg to be.