Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
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I think that voters should consolidate between the two Unleash the Martyrs votes.
@EVA-Saiyajin , what do you think of the benefit of chewing up the advancing druchii? Won't that give our troops a better chance to repel and then counter, if they're easier to contend with, or if they more easily fall back? As per the cordwood plan.
@EVA-Saiyajin , what do you think of the benefit of chewing up the advancing druchii? Won't that give our troops a better chance to repel and then counter, if they're easier to contend with, or if they more easily fall back? As per the cordwood plan.
I was thinking the other way around - the ogres will provide sufficient AP big guns so our other artillery can focus on counterbattery work.
I think Freddie is more important as a commander, leadership symbol and hero reserve than as a sword in the press, even when the sword is a runefang, so he should be on the wall where he can see and be seen.
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I think it would work fairly well if it didn't mean leaving an entirely new element free to wreak havoc, especially one with thousands of years of experience dealing with enemy artillery and flying creatures.
I also think that the Druuchi capacity to push on in spite of losses is higher than a lot of people think. They could not wage some of the wars they do if they were overly frugal with their own lives.
Yeah there's a clear, defined difference between the Caledor's Bane Lance and the First Draich, namely that one of them was created by the Forge-Priests of Vaul, in fiery devotion for a truly excellent weapon. As much as some Asur might not like to think about it, there are Gods that lend a hand to just, you know, Elves in general, not just the Druchii or Asur. There are Asur worshippers of Anath Raema, for instance, as well. And there are definitely some Druchii mothers who murmur prayers to Isha that they give birth to healthy, strong children. Because, you know, otherwise, shame and hatred and loss of position on society, so please no dead stillborn or weak children please, etc. Or perhaps because they genuinely just want a child that lives well and long, who can say for certain for every single Druchii mother.
But yeah, the difference is, Forge-Priests of Vaul making a very good lance. Didn't have to be specifically to kill dragons, either. It was just making a super good lance. That, you know, could also pierce the chest of a Greater Daemon, or a Chaos Dragon, or a Giant, etc. etc. Though, yes, it was forged by Druchii, for Druchii, so it is likely intended to at some point be used against the Asur, either riding Dragons or Gryphons or Great Eagles or whatever. The point is, though, is that Caledor's Bane (the lance) ONLY got its name and dread reputation as Caledor's Bane (the lance) because it was wielded by Maranith, who would be the one using it to kill so many Caledorian Dragon Princes and Princesses and their Dragons, and got his title as Caledor's Bane (the person) and would rather amusingly have his weapon named after him. It would be like if Frederick ran around with an unnamed but powerful runic blade that became called the Steel Bull, or one of his other titles. Same sort of thing.
The First Draich, on the other hand, is utterly soaked in blood and pain and suffering. It was not even made specifically for ritual purposes, and is noted to explicitly have been a guard's weapon. Some rando Druchii who was standing guard as the first great sacrifices were made in Har Ganeth long ages ago, when the cities of Naggaroth were first forged. And Tullaris took his sword and started killing, showering in the blood spray, and so the Har Ganeth Executioners were born. Given its stats, its possible to have been made by the Forge-Smiths of Vaul, but like, for a highly placed guard. In that time since, however, it has long since discarded any touch of Vaul if there were any, for it has solely been used for sacrifice and empowerment and showing devotion to Khaine for all that time. It thirsts for blood, an echo of Khaine's own thirst for murder. I would argue, in fact, that it wasn't strictly a magical creation of the Forge-Priests, just a good sword taken straight outta the hands of a random if highly placed Druchii Guard and then so soaked in blood and murder by the Hand of Khaine for so long and so thoroughly that it has gained its properties through the blessings of Khaine upon it.
The Lance, by contrast, just plain old doesn't have all that.
Also, yeah, as noted in the Armybook, Malekith claims to be Khaine's mortal avatar purely for the accompanying political advantage, and also notes that unlike the Witch King Tullaris is the true herald. His dreams and every waking hour are filled by violent whispers, and he doesn't challenge Malekith over the matter of who Khaine likes most "simply because the Lord of Murder has not yet commanded him to do so."
Also, not like it matters because we all know that TT numbers aren't the most perfectly reliable things for DoDA stuff, but also 'ooh ahh numbers'
Tullaris: M 5 / WS 6 / BS 6 / S 4 / T 3 / W 2 / I 7 / A 3 / LD 9
Malekith: M 5 / WS 8 / BS 7 / S 5 / T 4 / W 3 / I 8 / A 4 / LD 10
Kurt Helborg: M 4 / WS 7 / BS 6 / S 4 / T 4 / W 3 / I 6 / A 4 / LD 9
Korhil: M 5 / WS 6 / BS 6 / S 4 / T 3 / W 2 / I 7 / A 3 / LD 9
Tyrion: M 5 / WS 9 / BS 7 / S 4 / T 3 / W 4 / I 10 / A 4 / LD 10
Araloth: M 5 / WS 8 / BS 7 / S 4 / T 3 / W 3 / I 8 / A 5 / LD 10
Orion: M 9 / WS 8 / BS 8 / S 6 / T 5 / W 5 / I 9 / A 5 / LD 10
So, you know. Numbers from TT ain't precisely the be all end all, yeah?
But yeah, the difference is, Forge-Priests of Vaul making a very good lance. Didn't have to be specifically to kill dragons, either. It was just making a super good lance. That, you know, could also pierce the chest of a Greater Daemon, or a Chaos Dragon, or a Giant, etc. etc. Though, yes, it was forged by Druchii, for Druchii, so it is likely intended to at some point be used against the Asur, either riding Dragons or Gryphons or Great Eagles or whatever. The point is, though, is that Caledor's Bane (the lance) ONLY got its name and dread reputation as Caledor's Bane (the lance) because it was wielded by Maranith, who would be the one using it to kill so many Caledorian Dragon Princes and Princesses and their Dragons, and got his title as Caledor's Bane (the person) and would rather amusingly have his weapon named after him. It would be like if Frederick ran around with an unnamed but powerful runic blade that became called the Steel Bull, or one of his other titles. Same sort of thing.
The First Draich, on the other hand, is utterly soaked in blood and pain and suffering. It was not even made specifically for ritual purposes, and is noted to explicitly have been a guard's weapon. Some rando Druchii who was standing guard as the first great sacrifices were made in Har Ganeth long ages ago, when the cities of Naggaroth were first forged. And Tullaris took his sword and started killing, showering in the blood spray, and so the Har Ganeth Executioners were born. Given its stats, its possible to have been made by the Forge-Smiths of Vaul, but like, for a highly placed guard. In that time since, however, it has long since discarded any touch of Vaul if there were any, for it has solely been used for sacrifice and empowerment and showing devotion to Khaine for all that time. It thirsts for blood, an echo of Khaine's own thirst for murder. I would argue, in fact, that it wasn't strictly a magical creation of the Forge-Priests, just a good sword taken straight outta the hands of a random if highly placed Druchii Guard and then so soaked in blood and murder by the Hand of Khaine for so long and so thoroughly that it has gained its properties through the blessings of Khaine upon it.
The Lance, by contrast, just plain old doesn't have all that.
Also, yeah, as noted in the Armybook, Malekith claims to be Khaine's mortal avatar purely for the accompanying political advantage, and also notes that unlike the Witch King Tullaris is the true herald. His dreams and every waking hour are filled by violent whispers, and he doesn't challenge Malekith over the matter of who Khaine likes most "simply because the Lord of Murder has not yet commanded him to do so."
Also, not like it matters because we all know that TT numbers aren't the most perfectly reliable things for DoDA stuff, but also 'ooh ahh numbers'
Tullaris: M 5 / WS 6 / BS 6 / S 4 / T 3 / W 2 / I 7 / A 3 / LD 9
Malekith: M 5 / WS 8 / BS 7 / S 5 / T 4 / W 3 / I 8 / A 4 / LD 10
Kurt Helborg: M 4 / WS 7 / BS 6 / S 4 / T 4 / W 3 / I 6 / A 4 / LD 9
Korhil: M 5 / WS 6 / BS 6 / S 4 / T 3 / W 2 / I 7 / A 3 / LD 9
Tyrion: M 5 / WS 9 / BS 7 / S 4 / T 3 / W 4 / I 10 / A 4 / LD 10
Araloth: M 5 / WS 8 / BS 7 / S 4 / T 3 / W 3 / I 8 / A 5 / LD 10
Orion: M 9 / WS 8 / BS 8 / S 6 / T 5 / W 5 / I 9 / A 5 / LD 10
So, you know. Numbers from TT ain't precisely the be all end all, yeah?
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Wonder if Druchii know that our artillery is in bad shape, but not destroyed?
Fog of war is a thing in the quest, right?
Fog of war is a thing in the quest, right?
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Why wouldn't they? They have a surviving dragon and rider.
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Tullaris battling several Hero units and notices he is losing.
"Timeout! I call time! Khaine is telling me something."
"Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yes."
"Yeah, I'm really sorry, but Khaine told me I'm supposed to go. Totally honest. Sorry to be a spoilsport. Cyao!"
And that's how Tullaris survives whenever he sees that he is fucked.
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Plus the surviving dragon + rider was the one to inflict all the damage to our artillery. At most maybe Tullaris isn't 100% aware of the state of our artillery, but the Druchii artillery guys probably know
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So they'd have incentive to finish off wounded prey, aka, our own artillery, especially if unmolested.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
In canon Tyrion ends up being shown to be Khaine's chosen, with Tullaris dying so that circumstances of events meant to get Tyrion to draw the Sword of Khaine happen, so Tullaris fleeing from Tyrion because Khaine told him to might actually be legit.
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Since the only difference between "Unleash the Martyrs!" and "Unleash the Martyrs and Stand at the Gates!" is where Freddy will be for the battle, is there any chance they can be counted as the same thing in the votes? Or is that a big no go for this?
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Definitely not, that opens the door to all sorts of arguments for "but these are close enough"
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I thought as much, but figured I'd ask too. Can only hope people change their votes then, whether from one version of the Martyrs vote to another, or from Cordwood to Martyrs then, cause Cordwood is set to win pretty easily now cause of the split
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And I think the artillery being effectively targeted is worth more than that. And our artillery won't "focus on counterbattery work" if it isn't voted for.
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Could we have the Ogre Archers fire on the enemy artillery? Their ammo is basically some umbrellas right, some well placed ogre shots could smash right through the Reaper Bolt Throwers, unless they're too far out of range?
I said this the last time you brought it up, and I invite you again to answer my original response:
What does that change about the rest of my analysis? If we need to kill them all anyway, then what more efficient way is available to do so?
You want an artillery duel that will only stall potential losses at the ideal time for applying an artillery barrage and thus enabling the tempo of battle that the Druchii set up?
How does that help us to allow the Druchii elite melee units to enter their preferred fighting range largely unopposed after the initial sally exhausts itself?
By my reckoning, it doesn't. So we dont play their game and force the Druchii to pay a higher price to get what they want.
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NCRTrooper
Wishing For A Nuclear Winter
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[X] Unleash the Martyrs, and Stand at the Gates!
Yeah, leaving the Druchii artillery unaccounted for sounds like way too much of a risk for my liking, tempting as fucking up their infantry sounds.
Yeah, leaving the Druchii artillery unaccounted for sounds like way too much of a risk for my liking, tempting as fucking up their infantry sounds.
Imperious
Without the sun of my life
You know if the lance is so good, while not actually being tainted, I'd be tempted for us to possibly keep it for Ostland. Not for ourselves, since we have our Runefang, but maybe for some champion since Magnus seems like he's doing alright with his own magical warhammer.
Alternatively if memory serves the Gold College ends up becoming incredibly wealthy, but according to Word of God is still pretty far from those heights as of now. Maybe instead of a lump sum we could negotiate with them to have the lance count as a sort of investment in equity of the College or its network of alchemists organization that will yield some sort of regular royalty or dividend equivalent, kind of like buying Apple stocks forty years ago before their value increased literally more then a thousand times over since we know the College ends up becoming so financially successful.
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Ok but why do we have to go straight in on efficiently killing them, when we could at the least have the artillery focus on theirs, destroy it, and then reorient into firing into the battle proper? By target importance alone I'd say the best focus would be Enemy artillery > monsters > ordinary infantry. Like yeah, we could kill droves of them rn and possibly (but unlikely) force them into a retreat, but why do we have to make it so risky for us by ignoring their artillery? Reaper Bolt Throwers are great for putting down flying monsters like Gryphons, so that's an extremely high risk to Natasha too, when we could just do order of operations and fire on the infantry after we're safe from their artillery
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Because we cannot get out of their tempo like that. Them shooting down our fliers? In their tempo.
Then destroying our artillery crews and completely invalidating your entire reasoning? In their tempo.
Our artillery is not going to suddenly have no targets, they can hit the more rearward ranks. And please don't focus on this segment to the exclusion of the terrible damage they can wreak if unopposed.
I am voting Unleash the Martyrs which does have our normal artillery on counterbattery. I am arguing that, because the ogres are part of the gate sequence and some of them are thunderbringers, we'll have enough guns to hit Druchii without taking our artillery away from counterbattery. I.e. I'm not arguing against you but against Cordwood.
Because inflicting mass casualties while they're on the advance is very much a "use it or lose it" opportunity. Our ability to inflict mass casualties is only going to deteriorate from here on out due to a number of factors, and that's our sole advantage against the stupidly high qualitative advantage that the Druchii possess over our own forces at this stage of the battle
Normal volleys wont even work either, due to magic armor and horse shit agility.
We need to blow them up. Theres no better option unless we somehow win the magical duel.
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The way I see it, the point of the flagellants is to let the druchii get within their range. They blow themselves up, throwing the druchii elites off balance and into disarray, then our cavalry sweeps in and gets a charge before regrouping.
If things go well, we go on the offensive, if it turns out less than ideal then we can at least hold at the gate to slow down the elite druchii infantry and cavalry.
Our artillery keeping theirs busy is to not only help keep our artillery for later use (whether continuing to counter theirs or they get a chance for other targets), but by keeping them occupied now it keeps the druchii artillery from simply wiping out our artillery unopposed and then turning a rain of bolts onto our infantry and cavalry.
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But it's chance of beating Cordwood are much smaller.
Answer me this please: they focus fire their rapid firing semi-enchanted ballistas on our artillery crew, and now we have no artillery and they're still killing our forces, only now they're able to do so with a much greater degree of safety. Where does your desire to kill them as much as possible fit in that?
Allowing them to pick and choose without interference allows them to dictate the battle.